Linnflation

marou

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If I remember correctly the Linn LP12 cost around £250 in the 1970s and now costs £2500 an increase of 1000%. When most other hifi is now as cheap as chips - equivalently the Marantz 603 would have cost a fiver in the 1970s - why?
 

CJSF

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marou said:
If I remember correctly the Linn LP12 cost around £250 in the 1970s and now costs £2500 an increase of 1000%. When most other hifi is now as cheap as chips - equivalently the Marantz 603 would have cost a fiver in the 1970s - why?

I think I might get don for libel answering this one . . . or the heavy squad may be knocking at the door . . . :doh:

CJSF
 

bluebrazil

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either 41 years of r&d or 41 years of ching ching. either way its still hand built in the uk and second hand values still hold. why not ask a premium price if its stood the test of time, (with clever marketing), and is still cherished.
 

MajorFubar

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Linn are not alone: have you seen the price of a Thorens TD160 (not £2500 fair enough, but it was always cheaper than an LP12)

Basically the price of quality engineering has rocketted and the price of electronics has plummeted. That's why the manufacturers like you to buy electronic gear: it costs them buttons to make once they're recouped the cost of their R&D.

When the LP12 was £250, the equivalent of a Marantz 603, had it been possible to build it, would have cost thousands.
 

Andrew Everard

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In 1970 a Ford Escort RS would have cost you around £1750; these days a Focus RS will set you back nearer £30k.

In 1975 an entry-level VW Polo would have cost you £1700; now an entry-level Polo is £10k.

Suddenly that turntable looks good value, doesn't it?
 

Frank Harvey

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marou said:
If I remember correctly the Linn LP12 cost around £250 in the 1970s and now costs £2500 an increase of 1000%. When most other hifi is now as cheap as chips - equivalently the Marantz 603 would have cost a fiver in the 1970s - why?

I remember reading through a very early 70's hi-fi magazine, and the ads in there were stating £78.... :)
 

Overdose

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Andrew Everard said:
In 1970 a Ford Escort RS would have cost you around £1750; these days a Focus RS will set you back nearer £30k.

In 1975 an entry-level VW Polo would have cost you £1700; now an entry-level Polo is £10k.

Suddenly that turntable looks good value, doesn't it?

But the auto industry has seen huge improvements in terms of technological advancements and you can still get a half decent 2nd hand car for the price of a new LP12.

I suppose value is relative.
 

Andrew Everard

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Overdose said:
But the auto industry has seen huge improvements in terms of technological advancements and you can still get a half decent 2nd hand car for the price of a new LP12.

I suppose value is relative.

I'm sure Linn would tell you that the 2011 turntable represents a huge technological advance over the original, and really comparing secondhand values of one product with the new price of another is something of a red herring.
 

chebby

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Inflation in the 1970s ran at insane levels (25% in 1975). I have a couple of old hardback books with dust jackets displaying three different prices for different periods of the year (1974 in this instance).

The 1980s weren't much better. When our first mortgage started the interest rate was 15.6%.

I can easily envisage something increasing from £78 to £250 within just a few years in the 1970s.

(please excuse typos as I am using an iPhone.)
 

nopiano

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FrankHarveyHiFi said:
I remember reading through a very early 70's hi-fi magazine, and the ads in there were stating £78.... :)

Somewhere in the loft I have a Hi-Fi Yearbook that would certainly show less than £100, so I'm sute you are correct! In those days you could buy them in a sealed box, on the Tottenham Cout Road (amongst other places), ready to fit your own SME arm. An interesting thing to reflect on for those who have only known expert set-up by specially trained dealers.

I think the inflation comparison is less favourable to Linn if you contrast it with the Rega Planar over the (same) years. But Linn advocates will say that the LP12 has constantly been improved (even the basic or Majik model) whereas Rega have mastered cost-cutting and production-efficiency while keeping good performance. Interestingly, as noted above, the Linn seems to hold its value, but not as well as the Rega (in percentage terms).
 

Overdose

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Andrew Everard said:
Overdose said:
But the auto industry has seen huge improvements in terms of technological advancements and you can still get a half decent 2nd hand car for the price of a new LP12.

I suppose value is relative.

I'm sure Linn would tell you that the 2011 turntable represents a huge technological advance over the original, and really comparing secondhand values of one product with the new price of another is something of a red herring.

Analogue hifi really hasn't made that much advancement in technological terms has it? Digital maybe.

And I wasn't the one bringing value into the discussion, it was originally about inflation. You raised the issue of value when you compared the LP12 to a new Polo in terms of price.
 

amcluesent

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>That's why the manufacturers like you to buy electronic gear: it costs them buttons to make<

Yep. Should really beat-up on Linn for asking 13K for a Klimax DS when the DAC IC used is under £10 in quantity.
 

Andrew Everard

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Overdose said:
Analogue hifi really hasn't made that much advancement in technological terms has it? Digital maybe.

Again, Linn would argue that the current turntable has been improved beyond all recognition.

Overdose said:
And I wasn't the one bringing value into the discussion, it was originally about inflation. You raised the issue of value when you compared the LP12 to a new Polo in terms of price.

Is this the five-minute argument or the full half hour? ;) I wasn't making any commet about value, merely making a point about price inflation in other industries.

Then again, back in the late 70s, when I bought a pair of entry-level speakers, they cost me around £100. Now you can buy a pair of entry-level speakers for not much more. And a Blu-ray player can now be bought for £80 or so, whereas the first DVD players were around the £500 mark.

Some things have spiralled in price, others less so.
 

Overdose

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Overdose said:
Andrew Everard said:
In 1975 an entry-level VW Polo would have cost you £1700; now an entry-level Polo is £10k.

Suddenly that turntable looks good value, doesn't it?

The Polo in todays prices would be around £13K using the same inflation calculator I used last time. It has increased from being around a seventh of the price of the Polo in 1975, to around a quarter of the price of the Polo in todays market, So no, the turntable does not appear to be particularly good value, then or particularly, now.
 

Overdose

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Andrew Everard said:
Then again, back in the late 70s, when I bought a pair of entry-level speakers, they cost me around £100. Now you can buy a pair of entry-level speakers for not much more. And a Blu-ray player can now be bought for £80 or so, whereas the first DVD players were around the £500 mark.

Some things have spiralled in price, others less so.

Mmmmm,

3D Tvs spring to mind. :)
 

Andrew Everard

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Overdose said:
Mmmmm,

3D Tvs spring to mind. :)

Which have plummeted in price, thus failing the consumer electronic companies' aspirations to put some premium value (ie pricing) into a market sector that in recent years has seen chronic price-erosion. So in that way, 3D hasn't worked for the likes of LG, Panasonic, Samsung, Sony et al...
 

Andrew Everard

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Overdose said:
The Polo in todays prices would be around £13K using the same inflation calculator I used last time. It has increased from being around a seventh of the price of the Polo in 1975, to around a quarter of the price of the Polo in todays market, So no, the turntable does not appear to be particularly good value, then or particularly, now.

But then again the Polo is a mass-market product, made and sold in much greater numbers than the Linn, which was, and is, a specialist-interest purchase.
 

Ravey Gravey Davy

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Andrew Everard said:
and really comparing secondhand values of one product with the new price of another is something of a red herring.
Having just looked on redherring.com,the price of red herring in the 70's compared to today is damned misleading,despite the piscal advances.(take that as you want)
 

MajorFubar

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To be fair to Linn (and others) I bet they were shifting far more TTs in the 70s than they do now, so probably they could afford to sell them with a smaller profit per item. Conversely, and this is where it needs to be put into context, an LP12 may well have been 'only' £250 by the mid 1970s (let's say for argument's sake that it was), but by comparison, an average digital watch - new technology and all the trend - cost about about £60!
 

lindsayt

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I paid £374 new for my LP12 Valhalla'd motor unit in July 1983. £75 for the Linn Basik LVX and £37 for the Rega mm cartridge.

The UK Retail Price Index has increased by 2.79 since then, which would make my LP12 / LVX / Rega combination £1356 in todays terms.

That's £1000 less than a new Majik LP12.

And mine came with a lid. You have to pay £150 extra for a lid on the Majik LP12.

In 1983 an Ittok cost £250 and an Asak £207. So the top of the range LP12 from those days cost £2318 in todays terms.
 

lindsayt

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For comparison, here's some prices for some speakers from a US retailer from the 1970's:

March 1976
B4000-4005 Symphony $1,265 - 1,516/pr
Concert Grand $2,222 - 2,387/pr
Magnepan MGII $625/pr
Tympani TIC $1,325/pr
Tympani IIIA $1,895/pr
Quad ESL $930/pr.
Klipsch Heresy $496-594/pr.
Cornwall $788-1,050/pr.
LaScala $1,050/pr.
Belle Klispch $1,680/pr.
Klipschorn $1,350 (K-D-BR) - $2,080(K-B-WO)/pr.

Taking an example of the Klipsch La Scalas which are still in production: the 1976 cost of $1050 transalates into $4186 in todays terms. Today you can buy the latest version of the Scalas for $3500 new. Well done Klipsch.
 

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