Linn Utopik

[nopiano]

Good call. I’ll have to investigate further.

DG…

From the email I got from Linn on 1 November…

”We have launched a promotion to coincide with the roll-out of Utopik across much of our range. Starting from today, if you purchase any new Linn DSM, amplifier, loudspeaker, Exaktbox, or complete LP12 turntable, you will receive a free Utopik upgrade for any other compatible product (listed below).

This also applies to Organik upgrades across our range; purchase an Organik module for your Selekt DSM, for example, and get a free-of-charge upgrade to Utopik at the same time!

There are many ways in which you can benefit from this Utopik promotion, so please get in touch with your Linn specialist retailer to discover your options.


This promotion will run from 1st November 2023 until 31st January 2024.”

 

[DiggyGun]

From the email I got from Linn on 1 November…

Many thanks.

Got the same email, but I missed that point.

Will have to have a chat with my dealer.

DG…

 

[Dave_]

I think some context is helpful here. Firstly, as with any upgrade, nobody has to buy it. Excellent streamers yesterday are still as good today, whether or not an upgrade is available!

I have my doubts that multi thousand pound streamers are objectively any better than more budget friendly options to begin with.

Secondly, the last power supply generation was called Dynamik, and by all accounts it was about £700-800 as an upgrade. It was widely praised and taken up widely.

You mean some Linn owners previously forked out 800 notes on PSU upgrades and thought they could hear improvements... For context, PSU upgrades are utter audiophile twattery!

That was about 15 years ago, so this is very much an evolutionary thing. Even today, used Linn items with Dynamik are worth more than the same item without.

Audiophools and their money!

Thirdly, you can get the upgrade free if you buy other Linn products. There are T&Cs naturally, but roughly that’s buy any complete set of speakers or turntable, or £3,000 worth of sundry items - say an arm and cartridge. (The best deal is probably to blow £1500 on Majik 109 speakers, with free Utopik, and sell the speakers for say £750-1000 unopened. Don’t tell anyone though!)

Scamming the scammers. That I'm on board with...even if it's for pointless upgrades.

Just imagine the improvements Linn owners will be convinced they can hear if they essentially get the "upgrade" for free😉

 

[podknocker]

LOL

'Buy an overpriced £25000 LP12 turntable and we'll give you a free, overpriced PSU for your other overpriced component'

 

[nopiano]

For context, PSU upgrades are utter audiophile twattery!

I 100% disagree, having auditioned power supply upgrades several times over the years. But it’s only a Hifi, and nobody is making you buy it!

 

[nopiano]

LOL

'Buy an overpriced £25000 LP12 turntable and we'll give you a free, overpriced PSU for your other overpriced component'

Or buy a LP12 for under £4000 in latest Majik spec and we’ll give you a £1395 upgrade to your streamer. So over 33% discount, in effect.

Obviously, nobody is making you buy anything here; it’s just a manufacturer’s offer.

 

[DiggyGun]

I 100% disagree, having auditioned power supply upgrades several times over the years. But it’s only a Hifi, and nobody is making you buy it!

I agree, no-one is forcing anybody to buy it.

Likewise, to me power supplies are one of the most important components for a Hi-Fi system.

DG…

 

[Gray]

power supplies are one of the most important components for a Hi-Fi system.

They certainly are.
And there's no (good) reason why a more than adequate power supply cannot be built into original products.

I can understand why the likes of Cyrus prefer to sell 'improved' versions in separate boxes though 🤨

 

[podknocker]

They certainly are.
And there's no (good) reason why a more than adequate power supply cannot be built into original products.

I can understand why the likes of Cyrus prefer to sell 'improved' versions in separate boxes though 🤨

I think the reason they make separate PSUs, is because the upgraded parts wouldn't fit inside the half width cases. I doubt they will ever change their shoe box design, so we're unlikely to see very large toroidal transformers and caps inside their products, to help improve power supply noise and routing etc. The internals are very crowded in Cyrus products and the rear panel is also very busy. IF Cyrus went the full width route, I'm sure they could easily fit better power supplies in their products. They are shooting themselves in the foot, with their decades old design and this is also why Cyrus displays are very small and useless more than 6ft away. Compare this to the Rose RS520 display. The more I read about the Rose streamer, the more I want one. I bet it sounds a good as the Cyrus stuff and it's a one box solution. The Rose makes Cyrus stuff look really old fashioned and stuck in the 80s. https://eng.hifirose.com/RS520

 

[DiggyGun]

They certainly are.
And there's no (good) reason why a more than adequate power supply cannot be built into original products.

I can understand why the likes of Cyrus prefer to sell 'improved' versions in separate boxes though 🤨

Naim have their power supplies separate so you can choose which level (cost) you want.

Linn do the same for the LP12. Whereas, the Dynamic power supply was first introduced in 2009. Technology changes over the years and this is their new version.

What I like with Linn is that you can upgrade old components with the new products, if you wish to do so. Or not, as may be the case. This gives you options.

DG…

 

[Dave_]

They certainly are.
And there's no (good) reason why a more than adequate power supply cannot be built into original products.

Indeed.

But, if a PSU "upgrade" has a measurable effect on SQ then the product was poorly designed in the first place, AFAIC.

 

[DiggyGun]

Indeed.

But, if a PSU "upgrade" has a measurable effect on SQ then the product was poorly designed in the first place, AFAIC.

The last Linn Dynamik PS was released in 2009 and this new Utopik PS in 2023.

So, based on your logic, an analogy would be that a car / phone / whatever designed in 2009 would be poorly designed, because there are newer versions. Electronic technology moves on and improves all the time.

That’s why all these products are now better than in 2009.

DG…

 

[podknocker]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a 2009 Linn PSU. It must have been designed to be fit for purpose back then and they still work. They are releasing these 'upgrades' because they can't sell enough streamers and £25000 record players etc. Maybe reducing prices, but maintaining a decent profit would allow them to sell more units, but that's not going to happen with companies such as Linn and Naim. It's elitist hardware and has a loyal consumer base, willing to pay ridiculous prices.

 

[DiggyGun]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a 2009 Linn PSU. It must have been designed to be fit for purpose back then and they still work. They are releasing these 'upgrades' because they can't sell enough streamers and £25000 record players etc. Maybe reducing prices, but maintaining a decent profit would allow them to sell more units, but that's not going to happen with companies such as Linn and Naim. It's elitist hardware and has a loyal consumer base, willing to pay ridiculous prices.

Both Linn and Naim have recently had 50th anniversary products and, both have sold out, even at the LP12-50 price.

The next generation Klimax streamer is one of their best sellers at £35k

DG…

 

[podknocker]

Both Linn and Naim have recently had 50th anniversary products and, both have sold out, even at the LP12-50 price.

The next generation Klimax streamer is one of their best sellers at £35k

DG…

It might be a best seller, but how many do they sell? It's no going to be hundreds a month. I'm sure they will sell all they can make, but the figures will be low, compared to other brands. I said this earlier, but enough people will believe they are worth it and Linn will make a decent profit. It still feels like elitism and very cliquey, but I suppose if enough people are willing to pay huge prices, Linn and Naim have no reason to change their business model. If I had the money, I certainly wouldn't buy from Linn or Naim.

 

[DiggyGun]

It might be a best seller, but how many do they sell? It's no going to be hundreds a month. I'm sure they will sell all they can make, but the figures will be low, compared to other brands. I said this earlier, but enough people will believe they are worth it and Linn will make a decent profit. It still feels like elitism and very cliquey, but I suppose if enough people are willing to pay huge prices, Linn and Naim have no reason to change their business model. If I had the money, I certainly wouldn't buy from Linn or Naim.

A bit of info.

Sales at Linn for the last 12 months came in at £22.7m, with net profit of £2.4m.

The Glasgow-based music system designer and manufacturer's results for the year ending 30 September 2022 stated that this financial performance came off the back of its flagship digital streamer, Klimax DSM, alongside "resilient demand" across its key markets and product ranges.

Gilad Tiefenbrun, Linn’s chief executive, said: “Despite the enormous challenges we’ve faced over the past few years, the business has gone from strength to strength.

“We’ve worked diligently to simplify our supply chain, bring even more processes in-house, and invest in new capabilities across the business.”

The Klimax DSM was launched in March 2021 and has since received seven ‘product of the year’ awards from the global hi-fi press.

Meanwhile, the Selekt LP12 was awarded Turntable of the Year by Hi-Fi+ last year.

Linn designs and manufactures its range of hi-fi systems at its factory to the south of Glasgow.

DG…

 

[podknocker]

They are a quality and innovative brand and I'm sure their devices sound incredible, but £35k for a streamer and £25k for a turntable? They've managed to convince their loyal customers and new ones, that these prices are good value. Clever marketing and also perhaps a gullible customer base, with deep pockets. I'm not knocking their products, or expertise, but it's silly money. It's decent new car money, to play LP records.

 

[Dave_]

It might be a best seller, but how many do they sell? It's no going to be hundreds a month. I'm sure they will sell all they can make, but the figures will be low, compared to other brands.

Well their revenue and product pricing would suggest it's all very low volume across the board.

But look at their profit, at about 10% it's no wonder they're offering pointless £1350 upgrades...

 

[DiggyGun]

They are a quality and innovative brand and I'm sure their devices sound incredible, but £35k for a streamer and £25k for a turntable? They've managed to convince their loyal customers and new ones, that these prices are good value. Clever marketing and also perhaps a gullible customer base, with deep pockets. I'm not knocking their products, or expertise, but it's silly money. It's decent new car money, to play LP records.

You may not be knocking their products or expertise. However, you are knocking their customers.

DG…

 

[podknocker]

You may not be knocking their products or expertise. However, you are knocking their customers.

DG…

If you are willing to pay £25k to play LP records, you need a new sense of perspective.

 

[DiggyGun]

If you are willing to pay £25k to play LP records, you need a new sense of perspective.

My perspective is very good, thank you.

And I very much enjoy my Linn / Naim / Kudos system.

DG…

 

[podknocker]

I'm glad you enjoy your system, but I'd bet the same sound quality could be found in a much cheaper product. I'm not suggesting any impropriety, but many review sites do have a cosy relationship with certain brands and vendors and I still think some devices are given a very good rating, because it's mutually convenient. There is a point of diminishing returns and thet arrives at a much cheaper price than the stratospheric heights of Linn, Naim et al. I'm not a reverse snob, but I do know what components cost and some stuff out there is ridiculous. Linn Sondek LP12 £25000? Cannot be justified.

 

[DiggyGun]

Sondek LP12 £25000? Cannot be justified.

It can be justified by the many LP12 owners out there, all around the globe.

DG…

 

[daytona600]

£1350 PSU upgrade . Not if you have the Linn DD
Monthly direct debit for Life & all future upgrades are half price forever

 

[podknocker]

£1350 PSU upgrade . Not if you have the Linn DD
monthly direct debit & all future upgrades are half price forever

If they can give a 50% discount, via DD and guarantee custom, then how much profit are they making? It brings me back to the point I made earlier. Linn products are overpriced.