Linn Sondek

[admin_exported]

So, it was good news with the Project this weekend with vinyl sounding better than ever! Because of this, I'm in the market for a Linn Sondek LP12! What arm/motor etc should I be looking at for a model costing £500 on ebay?

Many thanks,
Hughes.

 

[matthewpiano]

Tread VERY VERY carefully. There are some absolute dogs out there and Sondeks need very careful set-up to perform at their best.

My strong advice would be to go for a brand new Rega P3-24 instead. Less fussy about set-up and, in terms of performance, the sky is the limit. Its what I'm hoping to be able to afford sometime next year. Will outperform a badly set-up, messed around Sondek every day of the week.

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:Tread VERY VERY carefully. There are some absolute dogs out there and Sondeks need very careful set-up to perform at their best.

My strong advice would be to go for a brand new Rega P3-24 instead. Less fussy about set-up and, in terms of performance, the sky is the limit. Its what I'm hoping to be able to afford sometime next year. Will outperform a badly set-up, messed around Sondek every day of the week.

Yes, but I would like an easy and infinite upgrade route - the Rega has a limit to how improved it can get, IMO. With the LP12, I can start off with a Basik Arm and the standard motor, and slowly upgrade to a Vallaha and then the arm upgrade etc etc

My local dealer is an LP12 stockist, so I'm sure he would be able to do a cheap service for me!

 

[the record spot]

Part of me can't help thinking you jump in with both feet to a degree Hughes; if you know the dealer that well, I'm sure he'll give you a good idea of costs, but shop around and see what other dealers say as well - just to get an idea. I'm sure the guy's upfront, but you never just take the one quote.

Have you had a read up on alternatives? Used Roksan Xerxes, an older P3, a P2 (for the arms in both cases), Garrard 301/401 (see the Loricraft Audio website for what you could achieve), as well as the Linn. I suspect this is a case of "I want a Linn this week!" and so on. Mind you, if you do go down that road, I'd try and turn that jazz gig into a residency. Mind them vocal chords now...

Incidentally, I take it the Arcam comes with a phono stage? Or do you have the Debut III with the built in one instead? Something else to consider too if it doesn't.

 

[Anonymous]

I really don't think the Sondek is worth the money man. It was cutting edge in the seventies but now it's just obsolete. Even with every single upgrade out there you'll just have a sprung-chassis Nixon-era box (that cost a fortune). Look to funk firm, vpi, roksan etc. for tt's that will give you vfm and performance.

Although I'm not counting in the nostalgia value I suppose. But your parents were probably kids when this thing was state of the art!!

 

[gregory]

Hello Hughesy, as a previous owner of said deck, i can confirm that it is a fantastic sounding deck, but there are some but's. First off it is not easy to service yourself, it can be done but you do need certain tools and a linn jig is a must, secondly if you change a cartridge linn say you should take off the arm to protect the bearings, major pain. Other thing's to consider, it will sound great with most gear but when i downgraded my amps so the sound of the linn was not as good, losing a bit of punch but i went from a leak and croft pre power combo to an audiolab 8000A. But it's not as scary as people make out, £500.00 will get you a nice 84 with an Ittok LVll and a valhalla power supply but i would add caution and buy from a dealer, you will at least get some sort of guarentee and a dealer who will service it, every 5 years for about £100.00 give or take. So £500 outlay £100 every 5 years should last another 20 years and some for £1000.00 outlay, not bad for a very good deck, now the kicker, consider a thorens 160, you can add different arms as and when funds allow it is as upgradable as a Linn, if not more so and comes not just close but can even better a Linns performance with the right upgrades, it's my next deck. Good luck and let us know your decision, all the best, Gregory.

 

[matthewpiano]

If you go down the Thorens route, go for the TD150. Its better than the 160 and if you find a TD150MkIIAB with the TP13 arm on its a great starting point. Most Thorens arms are not great but the TP13 is excellent. As Gregory said, loads of upgradeability on the Thorens decks and the engineering is bullet proof.

 

[gregory]

Forgot about the 150 so it's either that or the 160, as Matthew suggest's the 150 is the one to go for, great little deck.

 

[Anonymous]

gregory:Hello Hughesy, as a previous owner of said deck, i can confirm that it is a fantastic sounding deck, but there are some but's. First off it is not easy to service yourself, it can be done but you do need certain tools and a linn jig is a must, secondly if you change a cartridge linn say you should take off the arm to protect the bearings, major pain. Other thing's to consider, it will sound great with most gear but when i downgraded my amps so the sound of the linn was not as good, losing a bit of punch but i went from a leak and croft pre power combo to an audiolab 8000A. But it's not as scary as people make out, £500.00 will get you a nice 84 with an Ittok LVll and a valhalla power supply but i would add caution and buy from a dealer, you will at least get some sort of guarentee and a dealer who will service it, every 5 years for about £100.00 give or take. So £500 outlay £100 every 5 years should last another 20 years and some for £1000.00 outlay, not bad for a very good deck, now the kicker, consider a thorens 160, you can add different arms as and when funds allow it is as upgradable as a Linn, if not more so and comes not just close but can even better a Linns performance with the right upgrades, it's my next deck. Good luck and let us know your decision, all the best, Gregory.

Thankyou very much Gregory! I'm thinking about getting the Linn Axis with a Linn Basik arm instead of the Sondek to start with (with a Ortofon Blue or the Goldring 1042?) and then in a couple of years when I get some more money, spend it on a Michell Technodeck or a Roksan Xeres! Sound good? I'm still very impressed with my Project at the moment (apart from the very slightly off-treble which has a tish tish tish sound to symbols. But the bass is even better than I thought - it's just sooo extended and rythmical!

 

[Anonymous]

Or if I went for the Thorens TD160, what cartridge should I be looking at for it? Is it easy to fit a cartridge to it? And what is the maximum price I should look at paying for one in excellent condition with its original box and packaging and manual, but no cartridge?

 

[matthewpiano]

I paid about £90 for my TD150MkIIAB complete with the original TP13 arm and a barely used Mission Solitaire cartridge. It sounds fabulous. It actually replaced a Michell TecnoDec that I found to be beautifully engineered but strangely un-involving.

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:I paid about £90 for my TD150MkIIAB complete with the original TP13 arm and a barely used Mission Solitaire cartridge. It sounds fabulous. It actually replaced a Michell TecnoDec that I found to be beautifully engineered but strangely un-involving.

Right - if it's better than a TechnoDec, I'm getting one! I'm actually going to go for the TD160 because there are a few that are local.

I'm going to post a picture and please tell me if it looks like a good example! I would be very greatful that if any of you know the EBAY listing, please NOT to post a link because it'll rocket sky high and I won't get one that's local!

 

[gregory]

You may find it hard to get all the items you ask for, boxed ones sometimes come up on ebay but manuals are a different matter but theres always the vinyl engine for them, cost between 80 to 150 pounds depending on condition, as for cartridges it depends on what arm comes with them but the shures and ortofons like thorens decks and the goldrings also. Where are you based Hughesy, it may help to point you in the right direction. Just a pointer re the linn axis, although nice decks they can be a bit problematic re the motors and speed switching, as far as i know if they go wrong Linn no longer has any parts for them and the axis with the akito arm is the one to go for but then your not far off LP12 prices.

 

[Anonymous]

gregory:You may find it hard to get all the items you ask for, boxed ones sometimes come up on ebay but manuals are a different matter but theres always the vinyl engine for them, cost between 80 to 150 pounds depending on condition, as for cartridges it depends on what arm comes with them but the shures and ortofons like thorens decks and the goldrings also. Where are you based Hughesy, it may help to point you in the right direction. Just a pointer re the linn axis, although nice decks they can be a bit problematic re the motors and speed switching, as far as i know if they go wrong Linn no longer has any parts for them and the axis with the akito arm is the one to go for but then your not far off LP12 prices.

I'm based in Bicester, Oxon and I think I'll get a Thorens now, not a Linn, so if they are a bit problematic I'll pass - I also heard that they fry themselves if you leave them plugged in! Reminds me of a Technics turntable I once had that would turn itself on, spin a record, move the arm over and put it down at the start of the side and bring it back at the end, all by itself without me even touching it! Wiered!

 

[Anonymous]

FWIW - be very afraid of buying an LP12 on e-bay unless you're familiar with the product. That said, they can be an excellent SH buy from an authorised dealer (or a mate). They struggle on VFM terms as new items without a massive discount.

Also listen to Pro-ject if your budget's around £500.

Plus, a well sorted £2k deck beats a £2k CD player any day - discuss.

 

[Anonymous]

mjw999:
FWIW - be very afraid of buying an LP12 on e-bay unless you're familiar with the product. That said, they can be an excellent SH buy from an authorised dealer (or a mate). They struggle on VFM terms as new items without a massive discount.

Also listen to Pro-ject if your budget's around £500.

Plus, a well sorted £2k deck beats a £2k CD player any day - discuss.

Well it depends - I wouldn't listen to heavy rock on a turntable compared to CD - but for more recessed, relaxed music it is better.

 

[the record spot]

Tch, keep telling ya lad, P3 & AT440MLa and put on any rock you care to mention....it'll cane any digital you care to mention up to twice the price and I'm including the original Exposure 2010 in that. Metallica, Motorhead, Cradle of Filth, Slayer, Deep Purple, Led Zep - it's had them all.

 

[fatboyslimfast]

matthewpiano:I paid about £90 for my TD150MkIIAB complete with the original TP13 arm and a barely used Mission Solitaire cartridge. It sounds fabulous. It actually replaced a Michell TecnoDec that I found to be beautifully engineered but strangely un-involving.

Now that's interesting. I've found that since getting my Radius, whilst it sounds fab (to my ears) I'm not listening to as much vinyl as when I had my Planar 2. Weird...

More weird in fact is that I've been using my spare Dual 505-2 more as well. Maybe time for a change... hmmm... decisions decisions...

 

[Anonymous]

Somewhere between those that think the LP12 is an obsolete orange box full of springs and the (actually more worrying) group who consider it the best deck ever is a good sounding, reliable turntable with the largest set of upgrade options of any deck past or present.

I find it bizzare that people consider the LP12 to have one sound. Quite how a 12 with say a Lingo PSU, Ekos, and Linn Cart is ever going to sound the same as a 12 with Armageddon, Aro and Lyra cart is anyones guess. You can make an LP12 sound pretty much any way you want- mine has had a fair deal of the funk firm mods and uses a Pro-ject 9cc arm on it as a result it is very fast, insightful with none of the "bloom" that the 12 sometimes gets criticised for.

There is some good advice here but to summerise;
Keep your wits about you
£500 is the minimum for a complete unit that won't be a mongrel
Try for an Ittok arm over an Akito
You cannot buy a new Valhalla PSU. If you buy a deck that predates it, you will need to go to Majik/Lingo or third party (the Heed is very good).
For some reason fluted plinths are more desirable than flat sided ones and balck (despite being rare) is worth less than wood.

 

[the record spot]

There's a black one on the Bada Marketplace as we speak; £495 I think - would go for it myself if the kids weren't at the age they'd probably try to eat it and it'd spend the next five years on top of the wardrobe. Like my newly placed on top of the wardrobe P3.

 

[John Duncan]

I think this is all a bit premature. You've gone from "oo isn't vinyl good?" to "I want the best deck ever in the world" in the space of a couple of days. Why don't you just buy some more music and enjoy it? A Sondek will suck you into a black hole of modding and tuning which will stop you from doing just that.

Alternatively, you could save up for your college education...

 

[fatboyslimfast]

JohnDuncan:But instead it just kept on raining

I thought Xmas songs were banned this early in December?

But seriously, good point, and one that I'm guilty of with my "should I chuck in the Radius V"...

 

[John Duncan]

fatboyslimfast:JohnDuncan:But instead it just kept on raining

I thought Xmas songs were banned this early in December?

It's an anti-christmas song

 

[fatboyslimfast]

Yea, ok... but still strongly associated with this month...

 

[the record spot]

JohnDuncan:I think this is all a bit premature. You've gone from "oo isn't vinyl good?" to "I want the best deck ever in the world" in the space of a couple of days. Why don't you just buy some more music and enjoy it? A Sondek will suck you into a black hole of modding and tuning which will stop you from doing just that.

Alternatively, you could save up for your college education...

Indeed to all that - In fact, it's gone from (and I paraphrase here) vinyl not being worth the bother to actually, it's quite good this Debut of mine and then on to one of the most tweaked and expensive decks ever!