Frank Harvey
Well-known member
JohnHolmes said:
Should be any day now John (I know your name is probably not John Holmes, but I don't use forum member's real names on forums unless they do).
Should be any day now John (I know your name is probably not John Holmes, but I don't use forum member's real names on forums unless they do).
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
I'm sure one or two might be interested in this - a quote from somewhere else by some lucky so and so who got to visit Ken's California showroom...jealous? Me? Naah....
I was lucky enough and privileged to visit KKSOUND and their sound demo room while on vacation in LA. Ken was very busy on the day meeting deadlines on new speaker designs, although he kindly arranged my visit to meet Chris Sahakians who has worked with Ken since the old M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound days. Chris was a great host and comes from a mixing background.
I arrived at noon and was there for a couple of hours but as always when you're having fun, time went too fast!! Chris explained what the demo room had set up, which at the time was the new Q85 speakers for L/R duties with twin DXD2012 subs. Surround speakers were original M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound tripole column surrounds.
The room serves as a demo room, testing lab and evaluation facility. There was no center speaker unfortunately as Dolby labs wanted some speakers for their Dolby Theater on Hollywood Blvd, which is where the upcoming Oscars are held and broadcasted from, so they turned to Ken and Chris for a system. Chris had to let the centre speaker go to fulfill the order from Dolby (damn you Dolby!) Joking aside, I was humbled that I'm in the presence of the guys that Dolby turn to when they need a speaker system. You just can't buy that kind of endorsement!
I also have to mention the room. The room did not have a lot of fancy room treatments, just some basic treatment at the front and rear as it was made from drywall on all sides and did not have many furnishings like real world rooms. Ken has always designed his speakers to sound good in most rooms and that's probably why THX approached him to help with the Home THX program. Chris mentioned that for testing, if the speakers Ken makes sound good in this room, they will sound even better in real world rooms of Home Theater enthusiasts. There was no electronic room eq applied via the amps or processor.
For my visit, the in house system was set up with a phantom centre for movie watching. Not ideal in a purist sense (and Chris agreed), but when I heard the system as a whole, I was not missing the centre speaker as the system was set up SO well.
The room also had a DXD12012 QUATTRO DUO stack (4 subs at either end of the screen) and also a DXD808 QUATTRO stack (which is comprised of 4subs). However, I was happy to hear the DXD 12012 DUO subs with the new Quattro Series Q85 speakers as there would be no way I would get away with 4 subs at each end of my room. Chris was hoping that he would have the Quattro Series Q125's as well for demo, but they weren’t available at the time. Saying that, most of the shipment is spoken for with international distributors. And then Dolby also has some…....
Still, I was more than happy to hear what the Q85's could do with the DXD-12012 DUO stacked subs.
We started with 2 channel and Pink Floyd. I was most impressed with how well the subs were integrated with the Q85 speakers. The sound stage created was HUGE and I listened from various places on the sofa and it just sounded great. Individual instruments came through very clearly. I was very surprised at the soundstage the Q85 speakers created with the DXD-12012 DUO subwoofers. Detail was there in spades and the extra tweeter really helped bring out the smallest sounds in the mix. Take it from me folks - these speakers are gooood!
Once I had my fill, we moved on to movie watching and the first disc that went in was Pearl Harbor. It seemed appropriate as it was mixed on M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound speakers and won an oscar for best sound
I was really interested to hear this as the attack on the docked ships is one of my reference clips. Given that there was no centre speaker, I was even more interested to hear this clip as it is a reference for me. I sat slap bang in the centre line of the speakers. Because the L/R speakers were so well in phase, I did not (surprisingly for me) miss the centre channel - at all. Dialogue came from were it should have. Obviously, had I been at the far end of the couch, it would have sounded very different.
So Pearl Harbor was given a thorough work out and those familiar with M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound speakers will know just how impactful these speakers are with this movie.
Let me say, Ken has lost none of his magic in speaker design and I was amazed at just how good the Q85's were for movies.
Coming from an S150 background, it takes a lot to impress me when it comes to dynamics and slam and I was missing none of that with the Q85's. If anything, the extra tweeter made the HF slightly better than my S150 speaker in my opinion. The DXD-12012 subs also helped do their part.
I then moved on to MI4 and the clip with Tom doing his bit for vertigo sufferers and then the sand storm/car chase. I used the clip of Tom running down the side of the tower and then his subsequent head butt into the top of the open window frame to test the speakers/subs ability to be impactful and quick in transients.
Again, my jaw was on the floor when I heard this clip on the Q85's. The performance came very close to S150 levels and if anything, better than what I heard at the cinema and I saw the movies 3 times in the cinema! I distinctly remember this scene for its’ sound. I had to remind myself that this was without a center speaker!
Chris advised me that it would have been even better with a center and yes it would have been. But still, I was not missing the center speaker as I was in the sweet spot. The Q85's did nothing wrong- honestly, I could not fault them.
We then moved onto the sandstorm scene were the sand comes through a building opening, behind Tom Cruise while he is running towards the camera. Music and effects are in abundance with this clip. This clip had my trousers flapping with the bass of the 2 subs.
Those DXD-12012 DUO stack subs really do create the sense of impending doom and danger to the hero and added great tension to the scene. More so than my single MX350 sub. Faster, tighter and more agile is how I would describe the new subs.
When Tom gets hit by the car, I was wincing and in reality, he really should have had some broken bones . The whole sandstorm sound field came alive with the system and the tripole column surrounds did not miss a trick. When Tom crashes the BMW, the resulting impact, clarity and smooth top end was jaw dropping. I just sat there with a huge huge smile on my face
.
Incidentally I watched watched Top Gun the previous night in IMAX 3D (it sounded fantastic by the way) and these new KK speakers reminded me of the sound character I heard in that top flight (no pun intended) IMAX theater. M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound owners will know just how cinematic their speakers are, the Kreisel Sound Quattro Series Q85's continue that tradition……… and then some.
The drivers and tweeters used in the new Quattro Series speakers are advanced features and brand new designs than Ken’s previous M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound speakers from what I was told and the new drivers certainly bring the performance gap closer to the S150 speaker in my view. The Q125 speaker with the extra mid bass driver will in my view (based on what I heard with the Q85) bring the performance level of the Quatro Series 125 very very close to my original S150 speaker. However, the Q85 can certainly hold its' own.
The Quattro Series speakers are timbre matched to the original M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound S150, so can be easily added to existing M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound systems with ease ie Front Height/Wides etc.
The other great thing to see was that the Quattro Series speakers have multiple mounting options on the rear of the cabinets – that will accept existing M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound brackets, Omnimount etc
The other new thing for me that raised an eyebrow was the ability to Bi amp the Quattro Series speakers – bi-amping capability! A lot of people (myself included) would have liked a bi-amping option on the S150's and it seems that Ken has listened to the fans. Chris told me that bi-amping will add another level of performance should a user wish to do that. Chris also advised me that Q125 speaker will have more output than the standard S150 when bi-amped.
Something that I specifically asked Chris was about quality control under the KK banner. Quality Control was something that (for me) M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound was world recognised for.
It was fantastic to hear is that EVERY SINGLE KK SPEAKER made is tested, re tested and listen to prior to shipment and all the DXD subwoofers have to pass several quality control tests that are conducted in Southern California before they get shipped. Ken has his own team in the far east overseeing the QC that M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound was renowned for and I was most pleased to hear that this is still the case. So the legendary M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound quality control is still alive and well under the KK banner.
There will also be some US made speakers coming in the next 12 months and Ken is VERY busy with new designs on active Pro studio monitors and even more fantastic sub designs! The future is looking good for Home Theater fans.
Last but not least, the Quattro Series speakers have Ken’s Signature Sound.
I have to say, that the guys at KK are really really appreciative of the support that they receive all over the world- especially from the UK and Chris wanted me to thank the loyal fans of M&K Sound/Miller & Kreisel Sound over the years as well as the new KK fans and supporters. If anyone has not signed up for the newsletter, they should do so at there are some fantastic announcements coming in the next few months from Ken.
Careful David: remember House Rule No.12: "Trade members, dealers, manufacturers and their PRs must not use the forums to blatantly 'promote' products they sell or distribute."
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
That's just a review by a normal member of the public after visiting Ken's showroom. He didn't buy anything, he's not promoting anything. I thought it would be of interest to those who are interested in his products. If you feel that is too much, feel free to remove it. It is available for all to read on another forum.
That'll be the duo range I believe which is a step down from the quattro.
David: yes I read that very lucky dudes report over at mad house. Sounds like we are all in for a treat with his new designs.
David: yes I read that very lucky dudes report over at mad house. Sounds like we are all in for a treat with his new designs.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
jcshutts said:
As mentioned, the Duo range is the other range which will hopefully be around the beginning of summer. This will be a step down from the Quatrro range, so effectively entry level for the tme being. With any luck we may see an S150 replacement by the end of the year. There are plenty of other products too, but I know Ken likes to be 100% happy with everything before releasing a range.
For your info John, tracking online points to delivery tomorrow....
thanks David. Is the S150 replacement supposed to be a step up from the Q125s? I am assuming so?
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
jcshutts said:
It certainly should be! The replacement for the S150 has a lot to live up to. The active version of the S150 has been used in studios the world over for well over 10 years now, and the original design dates back to the early 90's, so it is about time it was updated. What form this will take we don't know yet, so whether it'll be similar to the current one or quite different, we won't know until 4-5 months before its intended release date.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
JohnHolmes said:
They have now....
In the demo room, running in - haven't had the chance to out the rears up yet.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
JohnHolmes said:Great stuff!! When should we expect your detailed review?
I'm not sure I'll be allowed to now...
If these are better than the S150's then they should sound amazing, i remember when I first heard a pair of decent M&K's I was gob smacked at how good they were and if Ken has made improvements with this new range then, well hearing is believing 8)
whilst David is being restrained with how he describes the new range within the forum, he has mentioned to me off line that a customer has just ordered an 11.3 set up. imagine that! I'm sure neither David nor the anonymous customer will mind me mentioning it!
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
[UNPUBLISHED - it's that sales pitch again]
I'll mention my thoughts so far, and lets bear in mind they have only been running in for about 10-14 hours so far. They're currently running bitstream from an Oppo 105 not a Marantz AV8801 to the Audiolab 8200x7, then fed to a 5.1 system comprised of the Q125 LCR, Q125 TRiFX, and a single KK DXD12012. I'm initially running the Q125 TRiFX as monopole rather than dipole or tripole.
I managed to pop on a few clips before I left work this afternoon. I've been letting The Incredibles play all day (as it was a change from Star Trek all day yesterday), and I've been popping in and out of the demo room when I can. The scene where he is sneaking into the Syndrome's base by sabotaging the monorail is immensely impressive - the bit where the broken base of the monorail pulls up to the feet of the two guards and they look up to see the rest of the monorail carriage hurtling towards them sounds like something is landing on the room itself!! Coherence is as good as it has always been - the soundstage sounding like it is one rather than made up of several speakers. There's definitely something different about Ken's new designs - because of the use of four tweeters, they are set to crossover over at a lower frequency than normal - the lower treble/higher mid does seem to be a little clearer. I only picked that out because I know the M&K sound so well.
I popped on Ratatouille after that - the bit where they get struck by lightning and the following escape from the house. All presented with excellent detail and attack. It does take a short period of adjustment, but once you do, you can't help but notice the attack these speakers have.
The 8200x7 was only mildly warm to the touch after being run all day, so either it is a particularly good power amplifier, or the Quattros are quite easy to run in comparison with previous M&K designs.
I did try music briefly yesterday, namely Nine Inch Nails' Downward Spiral SACD, but they'd only been running a few hours, so I will refrain from posting about music until they've been run in properly and I get a chance to listen to them in a room I am familiar with for music.
At this point, we need to bear in mind that they've been running for 10-14 hours, are running with no room EQ, and have oonly had distances set correctly - even the levels have only been done by ear. These initial impressions are early ones, so are subject to change.
As someone asked me earlier - to sum up in a single sentence - I don't remember the S150's sounding this clear and open. And to think, there are two ranges pending above these!!
I'll mention my thoughts so far, and lets bear in mind they have only been running in for about 10-14 hours so far. They're currently running bitstream from an Oppo 105 not a Marantz AV8801 to the Audiolab 8200x7, then fed to a 5.1 system comprised of the Q125 LCR, Q125 TRiFX, and a single KK DXD12012. I'm initially running the Q125 TRiFX as monopole rather than dipole or tripole.
I managed to pop on a few clips before I left work this afternoon. I've been letting The Incredibles play all day (as it was a change from Star Trek all day yesterday), and I've been popping in and out of the demo room when I can. The scene where he is sneaking into the Syndrome's base by sabotaging the monorail is immensely impressive - the bit where the broken base of the monorail pulls up to the feet of the two guards and they look up to see the rest of the monorail carriage hurtling towards them sounds like something is landing on the room itself!! Coherence is as good as it has always been - the soundstage sounding like it is one rather than made up of several speakers. There's definitely something different about Ken's new designs - because of the use of four tweeters, they are set to crossover over at a lower frequency than normal - the lower treble/higher mid does seem to be a little clearer. I only picked that out because I know the M&K sound so well.
I popped on Ratatouille after that - the bit where they get struck by lightning and the following escape from the house. All presented with excellent detail and attack. It does take a short period of adjustment, but once you do, you can't help but notice the attack these speakers have.
The 8200x7 was only mildly warm to the touch after being run all day, so either it is a particularly good power amplifier, or the Quattros are quite easy to run in comparison with previous M&K designs.
I did try music briefly yesterday, namely Nine Inch Nails' Downward Spiral SACD, but they'd only been running a few hours, so I will refrain from posting about music until they've been run in properly and I get a chance to listen to them in a room I am familiar with for music.
At this point, we need to bear in mind that they've been running for 10-14 hours, are running with no room EQ, and have oonly had distances set correctly - even the levels have only been done by ear. These initial impressions are early ones, so are subject to change.
As someone asked me earlier - to sum up in a single sentence - I don't remember the S150's sounding this clear and open. And to think, there are two ranges pending above these!!
i know there are plans for a replacement to the S150 later in the year but what is the second range to be introduced above the Quattro 125?
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Above the Quattro range will be the S150 replacements later this year, and then above those will be another model - no details at all at this stage though, but the only model above the S150 Ken ever made was the S5000THX. I doubt we'll hear anything about these this year though, as there are other products being released over the course of the next 12 months.
They sound amazing David! Thankls for the update!
Oh Lord, how am I going to hold out for Ken's S150 replacement now. :twisted:
There's a voice inside my head telling me "you might as well buy them now, the S150 replacements will be out of your budget, you're best trying to get a 2nd hand set a few years down the line"
Oh Lord, how am I going to hold out for Ken's S150 replacement now. :twisted:
There's a voice inside my head telling me "you might as well buy them now, the S150 replacements will be out of your budget, you're best trying to get a 2nd hand set a few years down the line"
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Why wait when they're better than S150's already? Unless you're a perfectionist
I do see your point though - I may follow suit, not sure yet
I do see your point though - I may follow suit, not sure yet
How are you getting on with running in those Quattros David?
Are you changing your home set up in favour of the new KK range? What are your thoughts around music playback through them??
Are you changing your home set up in favour of the new KK range? What are your thoughts around music playback through them??
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Well, I had prepared quite a long write up which i had on my iPad that I spent about an hour on last night. Unfortunately all was lost when I tried to use the "Atomic" browser app to cokplete and post it. Bear with me, I'll rewrite it and get it back up sometime today!
Hello WhatHI forum
I'm considering buying a set of these KK speakers for use in a dedicared home cinema room which is 3.7m x 2.8 m. Would the DXD808 sub & Q85 be a wiser choice for my small room or would the DXD12012 Q125 setup be fine?
The position of door in my room(in the corner where a rear speaker would be positioned) would make it difficult to use the room, without having a rear speaker high up above the door aiming down rather than at ear level if I was to use room the other way round(if you know what I mean?)
I only have a 50inch plasma so don't think I would be too close to the screen using the 2.8m length layout. but I havn't got a clue which layout acoustically would be best?
Can any of you experts please advise?
I'm considering buying a set of these KK speakers for use in a dedicared home cinema room which is 3.7m x 2.8 m. Would the DXD808 sub & Q85 be a wiser choice for my small room or would the DXD12012 Q125 setup be fine?
The position of door in my room(in the corner where a rear speaker would be positioned) would make it difficult to use the room, without having a rear speaker high up above the door aiming down rather than at ear level if I was to use room the other way round(if you know what I mean?)
I only have a 50inch plasma so don't think I would be too close to the screen using the 2.8m length layout. but I havn't got a clue which layout acoustically would be best?
Can any of you experts please advise?
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