Ken Kreisel DXD-808 subwoofer - anyone got it?

[bigboss]

If 1 or 2 inches doesn't make any difference, then why does Ken specify 2-4 inches from the wall as optimum placement?

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-subwoofers/69181-kk-dxd-808-12012-owners-thread.html

It may be a placebo effect, but the difference was instantaneous experienced by my cousin as well.

 

[ellisdj]

2" - 4" is advised to get a lot of room boost for deeper bass, which is how sealed subs work.

Its near impossible to tell differences in bass frequency response by ear. I have tried and tried and tried - setting levels is very different.

Sure you can move a sub from a corner into the middle of the room and hear major differences but to hear a difference of maybe 1db or 2db by moving a sub an inch will be impossible.

You need at least a 3db difference for it to be audible and in terms of a peak / boom which could easily be 20 or 30db above what it should be a 2 db reduction in that will not be audible at all.

Sub bass is pressure and if you dont measure you dont know - its as simple as that. If you have never measured or dont know how to measure you have no idea what the room / placement of the sub is doing to the bass. That is factual - we are not talking cables here where people harp on about measuring - this is actual facts. I have leant this myself after years of chasing perfect bass and why professionals measure and why recievers measure and why REW was invented.

If you had the sub right in the corner - maybe moving it out a bit will help but if its 2inch from each wall - moving it to 3inch by 2inch or even 3inch by 3 inch will make a minimal difference that will very hardly be audible freq or decay difference and ultimately this is what you are hearing / feeling - pressure.

It may help with the integration from the distance settings on the receiver or may slightly with impulse reponse (I dont undertsand how to read this so its just a guess)

Measure and see for yourself

 

[Frank Harvey]

Just for information purposes, I don't use any room EQ in my current system.

No doubt I could measure my subs in my room and it will highlight a few anomalies that I'm not aware of, and maybe even the odd horror story with regards to nulls and peaks, although I have experimented with an Antimode Dual Core before in my system and do actually have a measured in room response saved on my laptop using ARC from when I borrowed an Anthem MRX710, so I am well aware of the issues than can arise in the average room.

All I know is that my subs sound phenomenal, and yes, adding an Antimode Dual Core improves things even further, but since returning the Dual Core, I haven't felt an overwhelming need to buy one - my system still sounds fantastic without it, despite the odd null (one around 50Hz) and the peaks. I can't play with corner placement unfortunately as they have to go inbetween the centre and left/right speakers.

 

[fayeanddavid]

The sub is facing the solid wall, as suggested by Ken.

BB

does that mean the side speaker facing one wal and the front speaker the other, if I have my orientation right??

And how far rom the wall, did you notice a significant improvement and was that in the low end??

Thanks

p.s. my wife's away this weekend so may well have a play also

 

[fayeanddavid]

The sub is facing the solid wall, as suggested by Ken.

BB

does that mean the side speaker facing one wal and the front speaker the other, if I have my orientation right??

And how far rom the wall, did you notice a significant improvement and was that in the low end??

Thanks

p.s. my wife's away this weekend so may well have a play also

 

[ellisdj]

David Wow - you are very lucky - to get phernominal bass in a room with no treatment and no eq is simply amazing.

Its a 1 in 50,000,000 stoke of luck to a have a room with acoustics that good to allow for this. It really is.

For the the 49 million odd other rooms this is the opposite of true by a huge amount. People need to be fully aware of this and as enthusiatsts should be aware of what to do to get better sound which is what I am trying to encourage.

The mentality of plonk it down and let the reciever do it does not give phenominal sound or phenominal bass depsite what people think. This mentality needs to change if you want great sound I am trying to encourage that.

Bass is so important and its the hardest bit to get right - once it is right the rest sounds a million times better for it.

Bass is extremely modal in most rooms - if you get big peaks that is all you generally hear - one note bass. Big nulls are worse as the bass is completely missing - this is common for every room to certain degrees lucky or unlucky as you are.

Looking at a ARC readout as I have seen them aree 1/3 smoothed - so its looks pretty but doesnt show the reality.

Phenominal bass is note perfect and fast decay - to get note perfect you cant have peaks and nulls - this is the ultimate goal. To get fast decay bass needs to be absorbed and absorbing bass is extremely diffcult hence bass traps being so big.

This is the reality of it so its what done about it that matters

 

[Frank Harvey]

This is my last post regarding this, as I have other stuff to get on with.

David Wow - you are very lucky - to get phernominal bass in a room with no treatment and no eq is simply amazing.

It is surprising what can be achieved without EQ. Maybe I am lucky.

The mentality of plonk it down and let the reciever do it does not give phenominal sound or phenominal bass depsite what people think. This mentality needs to change if you want great sound I am trying to encourage that.

There is no "plonk it down" mentality being promoted here, and I understand and appreciate what you are trying to do, and I agree. There are a number of things anyone can do to get good bass before having to resort to room EQ though, which can have various negative effects, despite giving a flatter response.

Phenominal bass is note perfect and fast decay - to get note perfect you cant have peaks and nulls - this is the ultimate goal. To get fast decay bass needs to be absorbed and absorbing bass is extremely diffcult hence bass traps being so big.

Does "phenomenal" sound have to be accurate? There's plenty of amazing sounding hi-fi systems out there that are not benefitting from room EQ. The differences between subs with regards to their ability to stop and start can be quite startling - it doesn't matter if the in room response can be made perfect if the sub can't make the most of that situation.

 

[ellisdj]

sorry if the last post was attacking, I could easily unintenitonally do the same again here, I think some of your points are ok others quite off the mark.

Ultimately there is tangible ways to measure bass performance from a sub which is what I have been saying all along, these help with knowing how best to approach getting better bass. Measuring by ear is not the way to go if you want the best performance and its not reliable at all with bass

 

[super]

I have two M & K MX350 subs and they are placed in the corner and used with an anti-mode 8033 equalizer to make them sound right for my seating position. One sub sits on the other one firing about 7 inches from the wall, sounds okay to me.

 

[bigboss]

Everyday TV programmes sound so much nicer with the KK!! I was only thinking of films.......pleasantly surprised by the improvement it does to regular TV!

 

[fayeanddavid]

BB

Are you using receiver EQ at all, or just letting the 808 do it's "thing"

I've bypassed my AntiMode and used just the limited EQ on my processor and my 350 sounds really good, just a thought if this is a result of a "better" sub??

 

[bigboss]

I haven't had a chance to fiddle with AV receiver settings yet as have been busy lately. So the subwoofer is just doing its thing. Will play with the settings this weekend hopefully. My OH hasn't insisted recently, but she wants me to box it up & put it in the garage to reduce clutter.

 

[ellisdj]

BB

Are you using receiver EQ at all, or just letting the 808 do it's "thing"

I've bypassed my AntiMode and used just the limited EQ on my processor and my 350 sounds really good, just a thought if this is a result of a "better" sub??

I would suggest trying the other way around.

Disable the Receiver bass eq and just use the Antimode.

The Receiver is double eqing the sub - if you set things up properly to start with you would have run the antimode first - then run the setup on the receiver. Therefore the receiver bass EQ is second in line and eqing on top of eq - That is not a good thing IMO.

With the antimode OFF the receiver eq settings will be wrong as they are taking into account what the antimode has already done. Also the distance / phase will be off as the receiver will have taken the delay of the anitmode into account when setting the distance.

However by Ear you think this is good - but technically its most likely the complete opposite, you are most likely doing more harm than good - bass is very difficult to measure by ear as I was saying earlier.

The reason it might appear better is that you are not double eqing but you can poss get it better still with the suggestion above.

 

[fayeanddavid]

Just for clarity, I have taken the AntiMode out of the equation completely, physically and electrically not connected in any way shape or form and have then relied on the Emotiva EQ and had a listen and whilst this may not be technically correct or aspire to the heights you mention, it is sounding very nice to me....... and I am not double EQing this way!

No doubt still some twiddling and fiddling to do, but I'm getting there...............

 

[ellisdj]

If you re ran the EQ / setup / calibration in the receiver again after taking the Antimode out then any harm is negated and my previous point irrelevant

However if you just disconnected the anitmode then what I have said is most likely happening - that is how i read it.

In this instance there is a good chance using the antimode for bass eq will be of more benefit as its first in the chain and a good system

I am only trying to help you here

 

[fayeanddavid]

BB

How is it going with the 808??

Thoughts?

 

[bigboss]

It's going to be packed this week and going to the garage.

The purchasers of my house are coming next week to demo the AV equipment I'm selling them (that's why have to connect MA AW12 back). We'll be moving in 13-14 weeks, so have to start clearing things out.

 

[buzz_lightclick]

It's going to be packed this week and going to the garage.

The purchasers of my house are coming next week to demo the AV equipment I'm selling them (that's why have to connect MA AW12 back). We'll be moving in 13-14 weeks, so have to start clearing things out.

Are you selling them your KRP as well?

 

[bigboss]

They are insistent. So I've quoted a high price. They're coming next week, so will know for sure.

 

[fayeanddavid]

They are insistent. So I've quoted a high price. They're coming next week, so will know for sure.

Yes??

 

[Son_of_SJ]

They are insistent. So I've quoted a high price. They're coming next week, so will know for sure.

I'm puzzled, bigboss. I don't understand how the buyers can insist on purchasing a television to go along with the house?? In any case, even if they can insist on a television, they can't insist on a particular Pioneer KRP 500A television, of which, unless they are Audio-Visual devotees, I suspect that they may not have heard prior to seeing it in operation in your present house! Surely, surely, you could buy a decent but cheap 50 inch television to leave behind and take your almost priceless 9.5 generation Kuro with you to your new house? (Unless, of course you had advertised your present house along the lines of "For sale - 3-bedroom house with garage, double glazing, central heating and - oh, Pioneer KRP500A television!") It just bugs me that you will be leaving your Kuro with people who may not fully appreciate it. And just think how much better it would be if it were calibrated, I've spent the last two nights in the front bedroom with my Pioneer LX5090 television, which I hardly ever watch (because I'm usually in my own bedroom with the Pioneer 428XD television, which is not quite as black nor is full HD) and I'm stuck at how good the calibrated picture of the LX5090 is. Your Kuro, if it were calibrated, would be slightly better than mine.

 

[bigboss]

We'll see. He doesn't want the hassle of buying a new TV and putting it up - he prefers the system undisturbed. This is despite my offer of helping him put it up.

You can get a brand new 50-inch Sony W829 for the price I've quoted him for the Kuro (and it's 3D as well). He did not reply back regarding the TV. When he comes on Thursday, I'll know for sure. I'll offer him to order a 50-inch TV to my address and I'll put it up for him when I remove the Kuro.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

.... when I remove the Kuro.

That's what I wanted to read! *smile*

 

[Son_of_SJ]

You can get a brand new 50-inch Sony W829 for the price I've quoted him for the Kuro (and it's 3D as well).

Is that cheaper than the 48-inch version of Samsung's universally acclaimed HU7500 series of televisions (and it's 4K as well!). Failing that, maybe the 48-version of the Samsung's H6400 series (also very widely praised, and 3D), cost £700 at Richer Sounds?

 

[Christian]

Hy Guys.

I'm new here. But have the DXD-808 duo since September and i am very happy with it.

Does anybody know the size of the 4 Spike-threads on the bottom?