KEFs and music

[dangalf]

Evening all

I recently went for a demo of the KEF3005se package (with the original 'polo' sub HTB2SE) to see how it would sound with music and films. I was blown away by the quality of sound when it came to movies (dark knight blu-ray) but was very disappointed with the music quality when plugging in my ipod - there seemed to be little or no bass

I asked the assistant if settings needed to be changed for music. He changed the sub settings from minus 2 to plus 6. I still couldnt really hear the bass (I actually went over the the sub to check it was on!)

My question is does anyone else have the KEFs and regularly play music thru them? - is it a simple matter of, say, changing the bass to plus 40 or are they just not very good with music?

thanks guys

ps I regularly listen to music thru my Ipod classic with Sennheiser CX300-II headphones and the music thru the KEFs seemed far inferior to this little set-up. If I could get the KEFs sounding at least as good as them I'd be a very happy man

pps the equipment it was demoed on was Pioneer BDP320 and Pioneer VSX919AH receiver - so i'm guessing the equipment was good enough

thanks

 

[ear]

with a sub Im sure you could hear the bass coming from it! probably the settings were not so good.was the volume knob on the sub at the max?

 

[dangalf]

im not sure to be honest. the sub sounded superb for the dark knight demo. this was my first ever listen to any home cinema speakers so dont have anything to compare it. i thought it was possible that most style speaker packages were poor with music generally speaking as the assistant there didnt seem to think it could sound any better

i have to admit i thought it was weird that my Ipod and headphones (total £200ish) should sound better then a £1200 setup

do you think its just a matter of having different settings for music and film watching (which seems logical)? if so can the KEFs sound good when adjusted to a more 'music friendly' setting?

 

[ear]

it also depends on the music

wich music was it? some music doesn go really deep.but you should also hear the sub working

 

[Hems]

I used to play music through a sony 2400es and KEFs in multi ch stereo mode and I thought it sounded quite good.

 

[ear]

yep multichanel always

 

[Anonymous]

hi mate i have the 3005se and play music through them all the time, and it sounds awesome and i am very picky.

i have some sacd's and loads of standard also a sony mp3 player and all sound wicked mate, so i would suggest something was not quite set up right.

andy.

 

[dangalf]

Thanks for all the replies everyone

Think I'll demo them a second time before I take the plunge (its alot of money after all)

Thanks Andy - at least I know now its the settings and not the speakers

 

[Big Chris]

Wouldn't have that problem with the MT30....

;-)

 

[professorhat]

Or even the B&W MT-25 I reckon...

 

[The_Lhc]

Could it be the bass management on the Amp isn't using the sub for stereo sources?

 

[kinda]

The problem with music ties in with my demoing experience, and I demod the 3005SEs twice at 2 different shops.

I liked the top end, but the mid-range and bass just weren't there really. This despite the fact that in films, there was plenty of booming going on for explosions and so on.

I wasn't just disappointed in terms of comparison to other speakers, but the outright musical performance for the price they cost. You'd expect them to be better than a pair of 1987 Sony speakers from a £400 midi system, but they weren't in a lot of ways.

It is largely down to the subwoofer, as changing that for the PV1 improved things a lot in the demo, (no other configuration changes applied). To me they are just not a speaker that can be recommended for music unless you replace the sub, and even then I found other packages to be better.

As above, you may find the MT-25 or MT-30 to be better, though I found the Tannoy Arena to be better than the MT-30, (films and music). I've never heard them, but the Monitor Audio speakers get good reviews, and the Arcam Muso / Logo was supposed to be good with music if that's where you're primary interest is.

Hope this helps.

 

[Anonymous]

I have the Kef 3005SE package paired with a Denon-AVR1909 receiver. Having had these for a few months, I would agree that there is a lack of bass and fullness with music, though it it good with movies. In fact, i'd go so far as to say that my old Kef 1005.1 package (the older discontinued version, and far cheaper package) was far better with music (paired with Denon AVR1906) with better integration of the satellites and sub.

I would suggest having a look at a full size speaker package such as the B&W 685. A friend of mine has these and they are fantastic both with movies and music. And that is despite the fact that he has not purchased the subwoofer that goes with these speakers. The bass the main cabinets produce is pretty amazing and purchasing this without the sub does cut the cost down significantly. True, they are bigger that a 'style' package but you'll get used to them quickly and they'll give you more listening pleasure than a style package. Hope that helps.

 

[dangalf]

thanks guys

does anyone know where i could demo the MT-25, MT-30 or 685 set ups?

Have tried calling a couple of places but they tell me they don't do B&W products

 

[Anonymous]

A branch of Sevenoaks would be your best bet, they almost certainly stock the B&W 685s. Good luck!

 

[Frank Harvey]

If you want something better for music, try the Monitor Audio Radius HD. Although they may not sound much better if the music on your i-pod is heavily compressed.

 

[Senna 94]

Ok can someone explain this to me basicly you are all saying that the Kefs are rubbish for music which is a total contadiction to what the what hi fi team said when review i quote below.

The Kef package is impressively agile and articulate with notably improved timing and rhythmic ability

And guess what 5 star award winner

 

[Anonymous]

That's just my opinion, based on having used them for over 6 months. Of course, some of the perceived deficiency with music could be due to the Denon 1909 amp, or a combination of the amp and speakers, but I have a feeling that it's more the speakers. The main problem for me (as for the person who started this thread) is a perceived lack of bass with music, which I still feel is the case.

 

[Anonymous]

When I got my system I felt much the same as you regarding the music felt it missed base and midrange.

I found with the kefs that they required tweaking to get the best/decent sound for music. Do you know if when demoing the music if the amp was in a 'pure/direct' stereo mode as this does not always use the sub (The sub will stay on for a few minutes awaiting a signal before going into standby) to get round this for direct mode had main+lfe going to sub. With this sub there are no settings on it (other than a base boost +6 or +12db at 40hz and a 180 phase shift) so the amp has to do all the controlling. Also crossover point I found made a big difference, with mine set up at 100hz (Again individual preference).

Now setup I now love them with my music (Listen to all types)

Would still demo the other speakers as it all comes down to personal preference and ls a lot of money to lose on hi-fi your not happy with.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Senna 94: Ok can someone explain this to me basicly you are all saying that the Kefs are rubbish for music which is a total contadiction to what the what hi fi team said when review i quote below.

The Kef package is impressively agile and articulate with notably improved timing and rhythmic ability

And guess what 5 star award winner I don't think anyone is saying they sound rubbish as that's a harsh word - rubbish describes tha tat available from certain chain stores......

The KEF's, like most normal satellite type speakers, won't match hi-fi speakers for music - this is due to the very nature of a satellite speaker. This type of package is more designed to be multi-purpose, rather than for a specific purpose, like hi-fi speakers are made purely for music.

The main thing is that the buyer is happy with their musical abilities, not whether a reviewer or retailer is.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi dangalf,

You can find a local Bowers & Wilkins dealer by using our dealer locator tool which is here:

http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/display.aspx?infid=1426

I hope this helps.

Regards

Shaun

 

[kinda]

I was disappointed with the 3005SEs outright, not because I was comparing them to high end hifi speakers.

When looking at a package at £1000+, if it isn't overall sounding better than old bookshelf speakers from a midi system, or speakers in a car, (in a decent car but not hi fi), then for me that's an issue. Films no problem, (though not as detailed as others I demod), but I'd struggle to see how they can be rated for music at the price.

It could be that they are complex to set up, but the same amp and Audyssey setup got a lot better results out of other speakers like the MT-30 and Arena, (though I appreciate they are in a different RRP price bracket). The 5005s though better suffered similarly with music, but it mostly seemed to be down to the same sub, as when that was swapped there was again a big improvement.

To be honest, after trying out the B&W, KEF, and Tannoy style packages, the Arena was the only one I'd have been prepared to pay £1000+ on. (5005s satellites with PV1 was very good also, but not quite as good as the Arena for me, and would have been a lot more expensive).

The key is definitely demoing. I started off thinkinh that as I wasn't expecting high end hi fi, anything with a decent review rating at £1000+ would be OK, but I found that wasn't the case. Also, the reviews can't take into account your own preferences.

 

[Anonymous]

I take the point that some speakers are better than others at music / cinema. However, the original point is that the sound is almost unacceptable because there is little / no bass output from the sub. Maybe I'm naive but I'd guess this was / is an amp settings to drive the relevant individual speakers issue, rather than a fundamental issue with the speakers being able to impart good (any!) sound (or not) - or am I missing something? Maybe the retailer needs to explain the various amp (and sub) settings and how they work with the speakers to gain the best sound under each?