Kef R100/R300 question

[Goat]

This is just a hypothetical question out of curiosity really.

I currently have the R100’s in my room, which is 11ft by 9ft, i.e. pretty small. I have the speakers about 1.5ft from the rear wall and 1ft from the side walls (one of which is a wooden wardrobe and the other a wooden chest of drawers, which I can’t imagine do much for bass precision!).

I use just the outer bung and on the whole, this produces acceptable results, unless the tracks are really bass heavy. With the port empty and no bung in, bass is too much. Similarly, with the whole bung inserted, bass is too anaemic.

Question is: -

1. would an R300 be too much for this room? Or rather, would an R300 fully bunged in exactly the same environment, create a better integrated, more balanced sound with more presence, than an R100 with only half a bung in? Or would it likely be overkill and sound stifled due to the whole bung inserted, leaving the R100 partially bunged as the better option?

2. In reference to the above, would the presence of the wooden wardrobe and chest of drawers affect the bass quality (in comparison to a solid wall)?

 

[BigH]

I think you should go the other way, get speakers that don't need bungs in or a sealed speaker. Yes wardrodes and chest of drawers can have an effect on the bass.

 

[hifikrazy]

Yup, agree that speakers just sound constrained with bungs in. I second the view above that you should go with speakers that you can leave their ports open, which is how they're designed to be operated. Bungs are only a stop gap measure.

 

[d_a_n1979]

Get rid of the furniture (or at least move it away from the KEF's)!

My R100's are 20inch from sidewalls and 13inch from the rear walls with no bungs in and they sound fantastic. No boom, no dumpy/thuddy bass etc...

The wooden furniture will make the bass sound hollow and it'll resonate with the bass also so I'd say move it out and test your system again and you'll soon see what damage its causing the sound!

The KEF R300's will be far too much for the room. I demo'd them at home along side the LS50's and the R300's need a LOT of breathing room IMO

 

[Frank Harvey]

Whilst I agree that the R300s (like the R100s) need room to sound their best, that would usually be the case for almost any speaker. My own room was once filled with five R300s in a 5.1 system, all with the outer bung in use, and when listening to music, the front pair was used as full range two channel - I never really encountered any issues with boomy bass.

If you're really interested in them, then I'd certainly give the R300s a go if you have a local dealer handy that you can borrow them from. That is the only way to find out whether you and your room will be happy with them.

 

[CnoEvil]

A couple of questions (sorry if I've asked before):

- What stands are you using and are they filled with anything?

- Are your speakers on a suspended wooden floor, and if so, are they isolated from it?

The R300s are terrific, but have a bass that needs tamed. The only way to know for sure, is to try them in situ. I would not use a speaker that I had to fully bung to tame the bass, but good results can be had with the part bung.

The R300s will need good heavy stands that are filled, and if on a suspended floor, will need something like Granite (and possibly isolating spike shoes) under them. They will need careful placement and probably the outer bungs.

Everything in the room, including its shape and decor, will effect the sound.

 

[Goat]

They're on an old pair of Atacama Nexus 6 stands, filled with sand. I think I dried it at the time before putting it in.

Yep, they''re directly placed onto a suspended wooden floor, albeit with carpet over the floorboards. I didn't realise that putting something in between the stands and the floor would make a difference! Could it be significant?

Learning to appreciate the Kef's more recently, hence this thread.

 

[CnoEvil]

They're on an old pair of Atacama Nexus 6 stands, filled with sand. I think I dried it at the time before putting it in.

Yep, they''re directly placed onto a suspended wooden floor, albeit with carpet over the floorboards. I didn't realise that putting something in between the stands and the floor would make a difference! Could it be significant?

Learning to appreciate the Kef's more recently, hence this thread.

There should be further gains to be made by:

- Put one, or preferably two, Granite Worktop Savers (about £8 from Argos) under each speaker. If it wobbles on the carpet, (if possible) put 4 small screws through the carpet in the floorboards and set the slabs on that (after leveling). http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/8423689.htm

- At some stage in the future, go for something like Partington stands.

- I use Valhalla Technology speaker isolation pads (Nb. you choose the pad to suit the speaker weight) between the speaker and the stands, but Blu-Tak is also good. http://www.kronosav.com/accessories/isolation/valhalla-technology-vt-feet-type-5-prices-reviews.html

Remember, suspended floors can really fc-uk up the bass.

 

[Goat]

Cheers CNO! I'll invest in some of those for my R100's.

 

[CnoEvil]

Cheers CNO! I'll invest in some of those for my R100's.

If it's the Granite you're talking about, they can be returned to Argos if no improvement is heard.

 

[wilro15]

Hi CnoEvil, do you think this would make any difference for floorstanding speakers too? I have speaker -> spikes -> laminate floor - underlay -> suspended wooden floor.

Just to check, by "suspended wooden floor", you mean where you have a gap underneath the floorboards?

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi CnoEvil, do you think this would make any difference for floorstanding speakers too? I have speaker -> spikes -> laminate floor - underlay -> suspended wooden floor.

Maybe even more so, as with a Standmount you can take measures to isolate the speaker from the stand, and also put a damping material inside the stand (if hollow).

It is worth messing about with Granite and sorbothane like materials to make a sandwich construction base......anything to stop the vibrations going into the floor. Remember, spikes will couple the speakers to your suspended floor.

Just to check, by "suspended wooden floor", you mean where you have a gap underneath the floorboards?

Yes.

It is much better if there is concrete under the floorboards.

 

[iceman16]

They're on an old pair of Atacama Nexus 6 stands, filled with sand. I think I dried it at the time before putting it in.

Yep, they''re directly placed onto a suspended wooden floor, albeit with carpet over the floorboards. I didn't realise that putting something in between the stands and the floor would make a difference! Could it be significant?

Learning to appreciate the Kef's more recently, hence this thread.

There should be further gains to be made by:

- Put one, or preferably two, Granite Worktop Savers (about £8 from Argos) under each speaker. If it wobbles on the carpet, (if possible) put 4 small screws through the carpet in the floorboards and set the slabs on that (after leveling). http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/8423689.htm

- At some stage in the future, go for something like Partington stands.

- I use Valhalla Technology speaker isolation pads (Nb. you choose the pad to suit the speaker weight) between the speaker and the stands, but Blu-Tak is also good. http://www.kronosav.com/accessories/isolation/valhalla-technology-vt-feet-type-5-prices-reviews.html

Remember, suspended floors can really fc-uk up the bass.

Try some thicker granite from your local stone merchants. I used 40cm granite from wooden floor then spike shoes for spike feet.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I think you should go the other way, get speakers that don't need bungs in or a sealed speaker. Yes wardrodes and chest of drawers can have an effect on the bass.

Precisely, dump the Kefs and try some other speakers. I'm not enamoured of the recent Kef series, they really sound unbalanced to me. not a popular view, I accept, but theres no excuse for flabby bass and overdone treble.

 

[CnoEvil]

I think you should go the other way, get speakers that don't need bungs in or a sealed speaker. Yes wardrodes and chest of drawers can have an effect on the bass.

Precisely, dump the Kefs and try some other speakers. I'm not enamoured of the recent Kef series, they really sound unbalanced to me. not a popular view, I accept, but theres no excuse for flabby bass and overdone treble.

There is no point in "dumping" speakers you really like the sound of (probably chosen over several others), without trying a few cheap mitigating steps first (which will also improve most future speakers as well).

 

[Goat]

I think you should go the other way, get speakers that don't need bungs in or a sealed speaker. Yes wardrodes and chest of drawers can have an effect on the bass.

Precisely, dump the Kefs and try some other speakers. I'm not enamoured of the recent Kef series, they really sound unbalanced to me. not a popular view, I accept, but theres no excuse for flabby bass and overdone treble.

A lot of people feel the treble is smooth and a bit rolled off if anything - but I'm interested - what speakers that you've auditioned would you say are not overdone in the treble in comparison to the R series?

As for bass - on the whole I think it's pretty good. But in the same room conditions, the Epos Epic 2 was much much tighter (albeit a lot less powerful).

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Yeah, agree about Epos, better speakers. Soryy, a bit busy now.