KEF Q350s sounds too dark ?

[GLYD]

How did you setup your speakers? How wide apart are they? Is there any toe in? Are you using speaker stands? How far are they from walls and what height are they compared to the listening position? Where is your listening position in the room?

I'd genuinely look at cables as one of the last tweeks, definitely not the first. Get the room right, the setup, source etc. and then if you want change cables.

They are 2.40 meter apart, 30 cm from wall and my listening position is 2.50 meter away. This is the best set up after several tries. I tried a little toe in but prefered them to be straight. I have them on Atacama HSM 1.1 stands. Only issue could be they are close to side walls but for the moment I can not change that.

 

[insider9]

Setup seems fine. I understand the point of synergy but you're saying that you get too warm sound from what is a neutral amp. Using that Marantz seems a weird suggestion in the circumstances.

Are you using USB input or optical?

 

[GLYD]

Mainly on USB input, and airplay. I listen through the computer or stream from ipad. I dont have a source to connect through optical.

 

[GLYD]

Well now I can say I am more happy with the sound streaming through Apple music. Is it a solution, maybe not.. since the service is not up to TIDAL HIFI quality but the sound has more spark to it. Now listening to Bobo Stenson Trio and sound is indeed very nice through Apple Music.

I will also try changing the cables to silver DH Labs, since I have the opportunity to try them at home and see if it helps..

 

[gasolin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-mslhYvqCU

They do somehow sound a bit less intrusive in the highs,to soft, like one of the records from my local (danish) artists that also sounds a bit subtle,not to loud in the highs, what hifi say they don't sound best at low volume

Do you have access to a Marantz PM6005/6005 and some qed spesaker cable mabye this https://www.whathifi.com/qed/xt-evolution/review that you can try?

Why would OP try Marantz PM6005 when he's got a Hegel H90? I don't know what you're trying to achieve.

If he tries a marantz amp he might get a more brighter sound since i feel marantz amps are a bit to the bright side

There a bit more edge to the qed speaker cable, both would help getting a more bright sound, more forward sound than laid back

If he knew someone with this combination or a place where he can try it and it works, then he know he can get a better sound from the speaker by changing the amp and speaker cable

It helped me when i changed my nad C326BEE to a marantz amp when i had a pair of Emit M10, the upper midrange and also a bit in the top sounded to soft with the nad amp.

 

[kukulec]

hi, it seems this will be a speaker issue. changing the cable leads u nowhere, i got the xt40, tried it with several setups, it is not on the warm side. unfortunately, you are not the first i read having this problem in relation with dali and kef. you could try a used dali ikon 2 mk2, it is closer to what you expect.

 

[gasolin]

as i remember some in here once wrote he felt the cambridge cxa60 or 80 had a sound more to the bright side than neutral, if you want to try a different amp, if not mabye consider Q acoustics concept 20 they are also to the brighter side as dalis are, i think they will be a good alternative to dali ikon.

 

[insider9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-mslhYvqCU

They do somehow sound a bit less intrusive in the highs,to soft, like one of the records from my local (danish) artists that also sounds a bit subtle,not to loud in the highs, what hifi say they don't sound best at low volume

Do you have access to a Marantz PM6005/6005 and some qed spesaker cable mabye this https://www.whathifi.com/qed/xt-evolution/review that you can try?

Why would OP try Marantz PM6005 when he's got a Hegel H90? I don't know what you're trying to achieve.

 

If he tries a marantz amp he might get a more brighter sound since i feel marantz amps are a bit to the bright side

There a bit more edge to the qed speaker cable, both would help getting a more bright sound, more forward sound than laid back

If he knew someone with this combination or a place where he can try it and it works, then he know he can get a better sound from the speaker by changing the amp and speaker cable

 

It helped me when i changed my nad C326BEE to a marantz amp when i had a pair of Emit M10, the upper midrange and also a bit in the top sounded to soft with the nad amp.

Ok, now I know where you're coming from.

Problem is OP got a pair of speakers without listening to them and it seems they just don't work with the amp. I wouldn't go changing £1,500 amp for a much cheaper Marantz to get a better synergy. Sound quality aside it makes no financial sense. He's likely to lose more if he was to change an amp. It is unfortunate but speaker change may be necessary.

If all else fails I'd either return the speakers or worse case scenario trade them in something that will work to OP's taste. Next time I'd highly suggest to demo.

Also OP if you can try optical in. It sounds a little more open than the USB. At least on my Rost.

 

[gasolin]

Im not saying he sound change he's amp to a "cheap" marantz, more to try one from marantz to hear if it makes any diffrence, since i feel they sound a little more brighter than neutral.

Im not shure if OP would rather keep the amp and change speakers or try a different amp to hear if it makes a difference and than decide if a new amp is the solution.

To me only listening to a youtube video it sounds as if the kef's prefer a bright lively sounding amp

 

[insider9]

Hegel is definitely lively even if compared with Marantz and neutral too. Speakers are supposed to be quite neutral also so I'm baffled by what OP is hearing. I haven't heard them though so go by the reviews.

Also for the record I only said cheaper not cheap. Marantz makes fine gear. Unfortuntately all the PM5xxx and PM6xxx I've heard I thought were quite poor but I wouldn't extend this opinion to other models. The older models I've heard and owned were much better in my opinion. I have not heard H90 only heard about it from Drummerman and read reviews. I have its bigger brother Rost and had an extended home demo of H160.

I've no idea how you can make judgements about speaker pairing based on YouTube videos. As to what OP will chose I don't know either but you usually upgrade by replacing the weakest link and it's defnintely not the amp. And if it is the amp I have no problem with that. I don't get emotionally attached to gear and brand names.

 

[davidf]

Is it just me, or is anyone else baffled by something sounding “dark”? I’ve come across numerous adjectives for sound, as well as coming up with some of my own (which I feel are self explanatory), but I can’t even imagine what dark could be. Dull?

 

[Al ears]

Is it just me, or is anyone else baffled by something sounding “dark”? I’ve come across numerous adjectives for sound, as well as coming up with some of my own (which I feel are self explanatory), but I can’t even imagine what dark could be. Dull?

The opposite of 'bright'?

Bass heavy? I very much doubt it.

 

[Pedro2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-mslhYvqCU

They do somehow sound a bit less intrusive in the highs,to soft, like one of the records from my local (danish) artists that also sounds a bit subtle,not to loud in the highs, what hifi say they don't sound best at low volume

Do you have access to a Marantz PM6005/6005 and some qed spesaker cable mabye this https://www.whathifi.com/qed/xt-evolution/review that you can try?

Yes, you can feel in that video also that the higs are recessed, soft.. Unfortunately, I dont have an access to Marantz amps.

However just now I was streaming through Apple Music and sound is more dynamic, more livelier compared to Spotify and Tidal. Guess Apple music recordings are little bit brighter compared to others. I also played with the iTunes EQ and gave just a bit lift to high frequencies and it is much better actually now.

I have QED XT40 speaker cables at the moment.

If you’re getting better results using ITunes EQ, then room acoustics are probably having a big effect on the overall sound. You may be getting lower frequencies hanging around and blanketing the mid/top end. If acoustics are the problem, you are best addressing them either physically or with software (although doing both is best). Room acoustics can produce some nasty/ unwanted surprises when you purchase new kit (without hearing it at home first)!

 

[stereoman]

No matter whether the speakers will sound different at home after demoing - NEVER EVER buy speakers based on reviews without auditioning ( as some correctly stated here ) !

 

[GLYD]

Yes, itunes sound much better compared to Spotify and Tidal through my system now. I have disabled EQ but enabled sound enhancement setting in iTunes to medium and speakers sound very balanced that way and I begin to enjoy them actually. So it seems the speakers do have the potential of sounding very balanced and energetic without brightness depending on the right sources.

Room acoustics may amplify the effect on the KEF’s but this is the same set up I had with my Dali’s.. and within same position it is clear that KEF’s do sound much more closed in comparison.

I will keep them for now and also check if the cables will make positive changes as well. Will be deciding if they will be keeper after all options considered.

thanks

 

[MajorFubar]

I will keep them for now and also check if the cables will make positive changes as well. Will be deciding if they will be keeper after all options considered.

thanks

Don't expect miracles. In 40 years of cocking about with hifi and audio in general, I have never suddenly fell madly in love with the sound of any hifi component that I initially hated with a passion just because I changed the cables. And as usual, other well-meaning posters have gone down the route of telling you the problem lays elsewhere in your system, eg change the amp, or some other part of the system you were perfectly happy with until you bought speakers you don't like the sound of.

With regards to iTunes, all you're doing is trying to compensate for speakers you don't like by changing the tonal balance / spacial balance of the source. It's not really a great solution, especially as it ties you to forever using iTunes, because with any other source you hate the sound of the speakers.

Heed my advice to just send the speakers back before the distance trading rules in your country / territory prevent you from doing so. Otherwise I guarantee you'll be posting back up here in four week's time or less, asking the same questions all over again, because you just can't live with the sound.

 

[gasolin]

Yes, itunes sound much better compared to Spotify and Tidal through my system now. I have disabled EQ but enabled sound enhancement setting in iTunes to medium and speakers sound very balanced that way and I begin to enjoy them actually. So it seems the speakers do have the potential of sounding very balanced and energetic without brightness depending on the right sources.

Room acoustics may amplify the effect on the KEF’s but this is the same set up I had with my Dali’s.. and within same position it is clear that KEF’s do sound much more closed in comparison.

I will keep them for now and also check if the cables will make positive changes as well. Will be deciding if they will be keeper after all options considered.

thanks

How about burn in time?

How long have you had them, have you gotten use to the "new sound ?

 

[gasolin]

No matter whether the speakers will sound different at home after demoing - NEVER EVER buy speakers based on reviews without auditioning ( as some correctly stated here ) !

I have done that, i couldn't listen to them before i bought them, BUT i could return them for free, so i wasn't worried if i would like them or not swith free shipping,return and all of my money back, 200€ with shipping, if i didn't like them i would retun them for free and get 200€ back. I did that with the diamond 220, had different amps but i couldn't have them long enough for the bunn in to had it's effect. Both time to dark sounding and not enough bass,midrange sounded strange.

 

[lpv]

How did you setup your speakers?

They are 2.40 meter apart, 30 cm from wall and my listening position is 2.50 meter away. This is the best set up after several tries. I tried a little toe in but prefered them to be straight.

I would rather toe them back in at your listening position as you'll get more top end by doing so. high frequencies are directional so when you have them straight you're listening off axis and less high frequencies - you want - reaching your ears.

I've heard these kef's and I must say they are really different than q300s.. dark and thick sounding.

 

[GLYD]

Hi lpv,

that depends on the speaker I guess, as stated on tests as well, my Dali's were better standing straight. Kef's being toed in, at least at my living room accoustics also became a touch thinner sounding while not helping much to the high frequencies.

I've heard these kef's and I must say they are really different than q300s.. dark and thick sounding.

why would they choose to make a big change to the sound signature instead of refining the previous model.

 

[davidf]

why would they choose to make a big change to the sound signature instead of refining the previous model.

They did so when producing most of the current ranges. The new ranges after the Concept Blade started with the Q Series, which didn't really have the same voicing, unlike the the R Series and LS50 that followed. The new Q Series addresses that.

The previous Q Series was a little bass light, and sometimes came across as a little thin, some models having a slightly boxy sound. Nothing major, they just needed the right partnering amplifier to get the best out of them. The new Q Series addresses the presence and depth of the bass, which has in turn sweetened the treble up. Their presentation also seems to be more open and three dimensional, a veil lifted if you like, almost like comparing a passive speaker to an active one, that type of difference. A step closer to the R Series, with most of the new models being as good or better than the model above it in the previous range.

 

[stereoman]

No matter whether the speakers will sound different at home after demoing - NEVER EVER buy speakers based on reviews without auditioning ( as some correctly stated here ) !

I have done that, i couldn't listen to them before i bought them, BUT i could return them for free, so i wasn't worried if i would like them or not swith free shipping,return and all of my money back, 200€ with shipping, if i didn't like them i would retun them for free and get 200€ back. I did that with the diamond 220, had different amps but i couldn't have them long enough for the bunn in to had it's effect. Both time to dark sounding and not enough bass,midrange sounded strange.

And to contradict myself now I absolutely understand you too. I bought "Leema Xero" brand new purely based on reviews - actually they appeared to be the best speakers I have bought so far. So it was a 100% blind date but I was lucky in this choice and loved them since first listen. So sometimes it is not a rule NOT to buy based on the reviews - it just did not work in this "yours" case...have a try further. I can tell you I had bought about 10 pairs of speakers before I found the right one.

 

[mond]

I haven't read the entire thread so not sure of your budget etc ,but what I think would definitely work for you is to add some supertweeters. This is exactly what I have done recently and the difference they make are stunning. More detail, more treble, and will make the sound more bright and less dark (without being over bright or fatiguing) I don't image you will consider this option as the tweeters will cost as much or more than your main speakers, but you may be able to find something on the used market. I use Townshend super tweeters which I can highly recommend. I have bought many a speaker from reviews only, as I generally buy second-hand so have taken a risk several times (including buying the supertweeters). I wouldn't worry about the numbers and what we can or can't hear within the frequency range as these tweeters effect the sound throughout the whole sound spectrum..... just don't ask me how they work!

If you did take this route you could use them with future speaker upgrades if need be or sell them on again when no longer required …

 

[gasolin]

No matter whether the speakers will sound different at home after demoing - NEVER EVER buy speakers based on reviews without auditioning ( as some correctly stated here ) !

I have done that, i couldn't listen to them before i bought them, BUT i could return them for free, so i wasn't worried if i would like them or not swith free shipping,return and all of my money back, 200€ with shipping, if i didn't like them i would retun them for free and get 200€ back. I did that with the diamond 220, had different amps but i couldn't have them long enough for the bunn in to had it's effect. Both time to dark sounding and not enough bass,midrange sounded strange.

And to contradict myself now I absolutely understand you too. I bought "Leema Xero" brand new purely based on reviews - actually they appeared to be the best speakers I have bought so far. So it was a 100% blind date but I was lucky in this choice and loved them since first listen. So sometimes it is not a rule NOT to buy based on the reviews - it just did not work in this "yours" case...have a try further. I can tell you I had bought about 10 pairs of speakers before I found the right one.

We should never give up finding something that ticks all the boxes, neutral, deep bass,loud (dynamic headroom),musical, no fattigue, not to big and something you can afford, theres is just so little you can do with the sound quality on a record, it's our duty to make shure the rest is good enough.

 

[gasolin]

I haven't read the entire thread so not sure of your budget etc ,but what I think would definitely work for you is to add some supertweeters. This is exactly what I have done recently and the difference they make are stunning. More detail, more treble, and will make the sound more bright and less dark (without being over bright or fatiguing) I don't image you will consider this option as the tweeters will cost as much or more than your main speakers, but you may be able to find something on the used market. I use Townshend super tweeters which I can highly recommend. I have bought many a speaker from reviews only, as I generally buy second-hand so have taken a risk several times (including buying the supertweeters). I wouldn't worry about the numbers and what we can or can't hear within the frequency range as these tweeters effect the sound throughout the whole sound spectrum..... just don't ask me how they work!

If you did take this route you could use them with future speaker upgrades if need be or sell them on again when no longer required …

That takes away the advantage of coaxial drivers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbc5GdM9RIg