Kef LS50 - Questions on S/Q and room placement! (Should I buy them?)

[DocG]

I have purchased the Kefs and they are due to arrive next week. Thank you for the replies and the entertaining and informative side-debate!

Hi David,

Congrats on your decision!

Mine have arrived this afternoon. Just set them up, and I must say: fresh out of the box, they are impressive already. I think the bass still needs some loosening up, but the imaging is to die for (after 15 min. of low level playing). I'm gonna feed them some brown noise tomorrow, so by tomorrow night I can treat myself to some favourite CDs!

Next week I have a couple of days off, perfect for fiddling with the position and toe in, filling the stands and playing with the amp settings! Boys will be boys, right?

:cheers:

 

[matt49]

Hi David,

Congrats on your decision!

Mine have arrived this afternoon. Just set them up, and I must say: fresh out of the box, they are impressive already. I think the bass still needs some loosening up, but the imaging is to die for (after 15 min. of low level playing). I'm gonna feed them some brown noise tomorrow, so by tomorrow night I can treat myself to some favourite CDs!

Next week I have a couple of days off, perfect for fiddling with the position and toe in, filling the stands and playing with the amp settings! Boys will be boys, right?

:cheers:

SAM beckons ...

 

[nopiano]

Agree with the general thrust of remarks, particularly Al's suggestion about trying in the room (why wouldn't you?). But if one is 103dB and the other 106dB that is twice as loud, though I'd also suggest that max output is irrelevant, as sensitivity will be what stands out in reality. Turning up the volume until the amp sounds out of puff and finding things still a bit lifeless is what you want to avoid, nearfield or not.

That is, in the current parlance of this forum, "complete nonsense"........

Easy to get confused, as raising the output level of a speaker by 3dB does require the amplifier to deliver twice the power.

On a music signal a 3dB increase in level is percieved as a clearly obseved, but small increase in volume. "Twice as loud" was defined as a 10dB increase in the measured sound pressure level but this is 'measured', not observed.

When normal people are tested, the 'average' observation is that twice as loud equates to about 8dB, but it is different for everyone. Interestingly if the test is done at low level, the perception is that twice as loud equates to about 10dB measured wheras at higher levels a smaller change is enough, typically 6-8dB.

oops, my bad, Dave, and thanks for correcting my schoolboy error. I know better, but had forgotten. I think my point that sensitivity is more relevant is the key one, where that extra few dB might make a difference with any given amp.

 

[DocG]

Hi David,

Congrats on your decision!

Mine have arrived this afternoon. Just set them up, and I must say: fresh out of the box, they are impressive already. I think the bass still needs some loosening up, but the imaging is to die for (after 15 min. of low level playing). I'm gonna feed them some brown noise tomorrow, so by tomorrow night I can treat myself to some favourite CDs!

Next week I have a couple of days off, perfect for fiddling with the position and toe in, filling the stands and playing with the amp settings! Boys will be boys, right?

:cheers:

SAM beckons ...

I introduced the LS50s to SAM right away. I reckon they'll get along really well! More news in due time...

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi CnE

Did you write a poem within the last few days?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

Mine have arrived this afternoon. Just set them up, and I must say: fresh out of the box, they are impressive already. I think the bass still needs some loosening up, but the imaging is to die for (after 15 min. of low level playing). I'm gonna feed them some brown noise tomorrow, so by tomorrow night I can treat myself to some favourite CDs!

Next week I have a couple of days off, perfect for fiddling with the position and toe in, filling the stands and playing with the amp settings! Boys will be boys, right?

:cheers:

Give them a few days to loosen up, and when you fill the stands, you should get a good improvement. :rockout:

 

[npoguy]

I have purchased the Kefs and they are due to arrive next week. Thank you for the replies and the entertaining and informative side-debate!

Hi David,

Congrats on your decision!

Mine have arrived this afternoon. Just set them up, and I must say: fresh out of the box, they are impressive already. I think the bass still needs some loosening up, but the imaging is to die for (after 15 min. of low level playing). I'm gonna feed them some brown noise tomorrow, so by tomorrow night I can treat myself to some favourite CDs!

Next week I have a couple of days off, perfect for fiddling with the position and toe in, filling the stands and playing with the amp settings! Boys will be boys, right?

:cheers:

Congrats!! I absolutely love my LS50's, but over a year later and I still fiddle with position, stands, etc. looking for that extra little bit.

BTW, Stephen Mejias has a short article in this month's Stereophile magazine following up on their review of the 50's in 2013. Believe me, I know others love their speakers and will cringe at his comments, but it says something when he writes "In 13 years of working at Stereophile, I have not seen another component that offers such a radical combination of value and performance" and "...I think I'll have to buy the review samples." Granted, he writes about "affordable" equipment and YMMV, but not bad!

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi CnE

Did you write a poem within the last few days?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Apologies if you took offence. You often poke a bit of fun at me, so I thought that you could handle a little, when poked back.

 

[miloshs]

Hey guys,

Just for those people that are hopefully going to go through this thread before asking more questions about LS50's I'd like to add that for those with a tighter budget good alternative to LS50's are Dali Zensor range of bookshelf speakers. As I own both the LS50's and Dali Zensor 1's I must say that Dali's offer similiarly structured sound as the LS50's.

Dali Zensor 1 and 3 are perfectly capable of delivering really good quality sound for smaller rooms (3mx4m or such), and are much, much cheaper, and require less expensive amplifiers. It's almost 5-6 times cheaper than going with the KEF's. I bought my Zensor 1's for 200€+200€ for a used PM6003 while the KEF's could be in a range of 2000€-2500€ if you get a half decent amp for that kind of speakers (it's more likely to end up to around 3000€ - speakers,amp,cabling)

KEF's really do need a room of at least 4mx6m as the bass they produce tends to overwhelm the smaller rooms, and need to be placed at a decend range from walls, back and side. What they also do well is deliver magnificent soundstage in larger rooms - they are really magnificent speakers for the money and deliver a feeling that some of the much more expensive speakers cannot.

So to make it short:

Mid-Sized room - KEF LS50

Small-Sized room - Dali Zensor 1 (3 if you want more powerfull bass)

Both are well worth the money spent, and will not make you regrent the hole in your wallet.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi CnE

Did you write a poem within the last few days?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Apologies if you took offence. You often poke a bit of fun at me, so I thought that you could handle a little, when poked back.

Hi Cne

You've really hurt my feelings by removing your latest poem

I feel insulted

Particularly as i was going to save this one

Joking apart you don't need to apologize to me

Anyway what about your original poem please?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi Cne

You've really hurt my feelings by removing your latest poem

I feel insulted

Particularly as i was going to save this one

Joking apart you don't need to apologize to me

Anyway what about your original poem please?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I had completely forgotton about the other poem, so thought you had posted a random question. When I actually looked it up, I remembered what I said,.....and since I didn't want to add further offence, I removed this one.

Provided you are happy with it:

There was an old dealer called Rick

Who was good at taking the mick

He sold decent stuff

But got a bit gruff

If ATC wasn't the pick.

 

[Jota180]

To answer the OP's original questions I listen to mine at just under 3m away and they are very detailed without being clinical. They are ALMOST as good as Guru QM10's but for less than half the money.

I would reinforce an earlier comment about stands. I had previously been a bit of a sceptic regarding the difference stands can make but having replaced Atacama Nexus 6 stands without any filling with Custom Design FS104 Signatures with inert filling I am a sceptic no longer. They tighten up and focus the presentation of the LS50's

I see from your sig you use the UQ2 with the KEF LS50. How does that sound given the many claims from people that they need massive amounts of power? Contrary to all these claims KEF states from 30 watts upwards.

Are you getting boomy bass? Do you play eclusively at low volumes? How do they sound turned up a bit?

I have a UQ2 and also the NAP 100 and have been thinking about the LS50 but all the claims of 100 watts+ or don't bother has been offputting.

 

[npoguy]

To answer the OP's original questions I listen to mine at just under 3m away and they are very detailed without being clinical. They are ALMOST as good as Guru QM10's but for less than half the money.

I would reinforce an earlier comment about stands. I had previously been a bit of a sceptic regarding the difference stands can make but having replaced Atacama Nexus 6 stands without any filling with Custom Design FS104 Signatures with inert filling I am a sceptic no longer. They tighten up and focus the presentation of the LS50's

I see from your sig you use the UQ2 with the KEF LS50. How does that sound given the many claims from people that they need massive amounts of power? Contrary to all these claims KEF states from 30 watts upwards.

Are you getting boomy bass? Do you play eclusively at low volumes? How do they sound turned up a bit?

I have a UQ2 and also the NAP 100 and have been thinking about the LS50 but all the claims of 100 watts+ or don't bother has been offputting.

I've used them with Parasound, the NAD D3020 and now the UQ2 and they've been wonderful no matter what. Again, if you look at this month's Stereophile, you'll see that he used a variety of equipment and found the same thing (although he notes that they would respond positively to high quality amps). The best thing is to try it yourself.

 

[Jota180]

To answer the OP's original questions I listen to mine at just under 3m away and they are very detailed without being clinical. They are ALMOST as good as Guru QM10's but for less than half the money.

I would reinforce an earlier comment about stands. I had previously been a bit of a sceptic regarding the difference stands can make but having replaced Atacama Nexus 6 stands without any filling with Custom Design FS104 Signatures with inert filling I am a sceptic no longer. They tighten up and focus the presentation of the LS50's

I see from your sig you use the UQ2 with the KEF LS50. How does that sound given the many claims from people that they need massive amounts of power? Contrary to all these claims KEF states from 30 watts upwards.

Are you getting boomy bass? Do you play eclusively at low volumes? How do they sound turned up a bit?

I have a UQ2 and also the NAP 100 and have been thinking about the LS50 but all the claims of 100 watts+ or don't bother has been offputting.

I've used them with Parasound, the NAD D3020 and now the UQ2 and they've been wonderful no matter what. Again, if you look at this month's Stereophile, you'll see that he used a variety of equipment and found the same thing (although he notes that they would respond positively to high quality amps). The best thing is to try it yourself.

Thanks for the reply. Any issue with musically genres these are best suited for? I've read one or two suggesting jazz and classical are a better match than rock. Dealers are too far from me to go an have a listen.

 

[Scissor_digits]

To answer the OP's original questions I listen to mine at just under 3m away and they are very detailed without being clinical. They are ALMOST as good as Guru QM10's but for less than half the money.

I would reinforce an earlier comment about stands. I had previously been a bit of a sceptic regarding the difference stands can make but having replaced Atacama Nexus 6 stands without any filling with Custom Design FS104 Signatures with inert filling I am a sceptic no longer. They tighten up and focus the presentation of the LS50's

I see from your sig you use the UQ2 with the KEF LS50. How does that sound given the many claims from people that they need massive amounts of power? Contrary to all these claims KEF states from 30 watts upwards.

Are you getting boomy bass? Do you play eclusively at low volumes? How do they sound turned up a bit?

I have a UQ2 and also the NAP 100 and have been thinking about the LS50 but all the claims of 100 watts+ or don't bother has been offputting.

No boomy bass, they are quite close to rear wall so I have both foam bungs inserted.

I use them mostly at low to medium volumes (50 on the UQ2) and they sound fantastic, vocals are strong, instruments are precise and bass is controlled.

I thought I might need to add a NAP 100 to get the LS50's performing but I'm happy with them at the moment. I'm sure in your situation the NAP 100 would only enhance the Kefs. I'm not ruling out adding the NAP but would need a good long side-by-side audition to convince me.

If you can get a pair for home audition I would strongly recommend you do then make your own mind up about how much power they need to drive them.

 

[npoguy]

To answer the OP's original questions I listen to mine at just under 3m away and they are very detailed without being clinical. They are ALMOST as good as Guru QM10's but for less than half the money.

I would reinforce an earlier comment about stands. I had previously been a bit of a sceptic regarding the difference stands can make but having replaced Atacama Nexus 6 stands without any filling with Custom Design FS104 Signatures with inert filling I am a sceptic no longer. They tighten up and focus the presentation of the LS50's

I see from your sig you use the UQ2 with the KEF LS50. How does that sound given the many claims from people that they need massive amounts of power? Contrary to all these claims KEF states from 30 watts upwards.

Are you getting boomy bass? Do you play eclusively at low volumes? How do they sound turned up a bit?

I have a UQ2 and also the NAP 100 and have been thinking about the LS50 but all the claims of 100 watts+ or don't bother has been offputting.

I've used them with Parasound, the NAD D3020 and now the UQ2 and they've been wonderful no matter what. Again, if you look at this month's Stereophile, you'll see that he used a variety of equipment and found the same thing (although he notes that they would respond positively to high quality amps). The best thing is to try it yourself.

Thanks for the reply. Any issue with musically genres these are best suited for? I've read one or two suggesting jazz and classical are a better match than rock. Dealers are too far from me to go an have a listen.

no issues with genres. Most of my music is classical and jazz, but I also listen to to anything from Bluegrass to rock and it works well. I also have a young daughter, so the system gets corrupted with pop, but it seems to do well enough for dance parties !

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi CnE

Please don't mind me. You carry on

Thanks for acknowleding that we sell decent (basic speaker) cables

We also use decent basic interconnects

I am sorry to inform you that we won't be able to support you with decent basic interconnects however you should be able to pick these up from your local market, electrical or pro store for little money

Anyway, i asked you about your original poem which i believe you posted last Monday so that i can start to address your point about the source of the strange ideas. Rather than post your original poem you've instead written/posted a new poem and then deleted it. I then asked you again about your original poem and rather then posting the poem or anything about the original you've instead re-posted the latest poem. Not the first time that you're being evasive

So are you going to enlighten us with your original poem again? :wave:

You know what don't bother at all. You carry on with for only when it suits and even then being selective - for show.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi CnE

Please don't mind me. You carry on

Thanks for acknowleding that we sell decent (basic speaker) cables

We also use decent basic interconnects

I am sorry to inform you that we won't be able to support you with decent basic interconnects however you should be able to pick these up from your local market, electrical or pro store for little money

Anyway, i asked you about your original poem which i believe you posted last Monday so that i can start to address your point about the source of the strange ideas. Rather than post your original poem you've instead written/posted a new poem and then deleted it. I then asked you again about your original poem and rather then posting the poem or anything about the original you've instead re-posted the latest poem. Not the first time that you're being evasive

So are you going to enlighten us with your original poem again? :wave:

You know what don't bother at all. You carry on with for only when it suits and even then being selective - for show.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I thought you were asking me to repeat the Limerick that I'd deleted, so I did....the other one is there for all to see and was simply meant as a bit of fun. I have already apologized if you didn't see it as that....so no more I can say really.

 

[plastic penguin]

Cno - noticed you;ve said in the first reply the LS50 are 3.5 mtrs apart, but how far are they from the back wall? Also, IYO how far can you move them back before they become boomy?

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno - noticed you;ve said in the first reply the LS50 are 3.5 mtrs apart, but how far are they from the back wall? Also, IYO how far can you move them back before they become boomy?

PP, I think I said that I sit 3.5M away.

The rear of the speaker is about 470mm away from the back wall (lath and plaster), and in a large room with high ceilings. That is as close I like having them, as they get progressively more boomy and unfocussed as they are moved closer to the back wall (though they could go a couple of inches further in without too bad an effect).

With the bung in they could go a bit closer, but in a smaller room I would try to keep them out about 500mm if possible (without bungs).

i haven't experimented for a while, as bending and lifting are not conducive to a happy back.

EDIT: This is the instruction manual, which gives guidence on positioning (No bung / Half bung / Full bung): http://www.kef.com/uploads/files/en/LS50/LS50_Manual_preview_250412.pdf

 

[Jota180]

Get an effing poetry room and stop filling threads with pish please.

 

[CnoEvil]

Get an effing poetry room and stop filling threads with pish please.

A pish-free Hifi forum, now there's something to aspire towards. :wall:

 

[Jota180]

Back on topic somewhat I bought a pair of LS50's and waiting for delivery day.

 

[CnoEvil]

Back on topic somewhat I bought a pair of LS50's and waiting for delivery day.

Well, at least that's money well spent.....and it will be good to hear what you think.

It might even merit a poem to mark the occasion. :shifty:

 

[Jota180]

They arrived this afternoon and the first surprise is how heavy the things are. They are replacing a tired old pair of B&W DM303's and they feel like they're made of cardboard in comparison.

So, KEF's on stands and music on, I'm 'flicking' through my collection, all ripped to FLAC on a NAS trying out all the genre's I can think of and the first two things that hit you are clarity, I did think that would be a given, the surprising thing was the bass weight. I didn't expect that from those little drivers. There's real weight and it's tight and tuneful.

Voices are very special through these little speakers but it's the way everything hangs together that makes them special.

I had read these were more suited to jazz and classical, well AC/DC hasn't sounded this good in my house since, ever!

They've handled everything I've thrown at them with ease on the end of a Unitiqute 2 and NAP 100.