Kef LS50 - Questions on S/Q and room placement! (Should I buy them?)

[David Palmar]

Hello HIFI connoisseurs!

I'm currently looking at purchasing Kef ls50's. I'm a HIFI addict but haven't yet delved into the higher end of HIFI speakers (however I'm getting the itch!). I own quite a few cheaper HIFI speakers and two monitors (Polk TSI 500, Diamond 10.1, Tannoy V1's, Yamaha HS80m and JBL lsr2325p) so I know a little bit about the different types of speakers and the particular sound I am chasing. I'm essentially after an extremely detailed HIFI speaker for my main listening room. I want something that is extremely revealing but isn't too forward or bright to the point where I fatigue. I was originally thinking of buying the MA BX2s but I think I might just bite the bullet and try to future proof myself by buying slightly higher quality.

My main listening room is quite large (4m x 8m at a guess) however my HIFI setup involves me sitting only ~2-3m back from the speakers. Now I understand that the Kef's are mini-monitors and should be used as near-field speakers.


My questions to you are:

1) Will they sound OK in the room and at distance I mentioned (2-3m away)? Or do they have to be exclusively used as near-fields?

2) How detailed / revealing are they?

I'm not after a particulary 'warm' sound but I don't want a super sterile and clinical sound either. Can you help me out?

 

[DocG]

Hi David, and welcome to the fun!

I just ordered a pair of LS50s myself, so actually a little too early to give you my full appreciation of them. What I do know (or think I know) is:

- with their UniQ design they are well suited for nearfield listening, but that is certainly no disadvantage when sitting a little further away.

- the distance to the wall will be far more important for a balanced sound

- the LS50s need capable amplification to control (above all) their bass performance. Inadequate amplification will result in a boomy, uncontrolled bass.

So do demo them with your amp, in your room before splashing the cash!

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi there, and welcome to the forum.

I will try and answer some of your questions and give some observations:

- They need a good amp.....Arcam A19 as a minimum, but preferably more powerful.

- Good heavy stands, that have have been filled with something like sand, are essential.

- IMO. Avoid silver coated cable

- IMO. They are not an analytical speaker, but they are detailed and revealing, so choose the rest of the system carefully.

- I have mine in a room that's about 14 ft x 22 ft x 11 ft and sit about 3.5m away.....I am happy with the scale they produce, which is out of proportion to their size; but they can't defy the laws of physics, so you would need to try them in your room.

Don't be fooled by their cost. These are a reference mini monitor and will reward like little else at their price, provided you put them in an appropriate system and pay careful attention to their set up.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

These are a reference mini monitor and will reward like little else at their price

Hi CnE

But then again at £810 there is ATC's curved SCM7 monitors and to put it mildly ATC know a thing or two about designing and building reference monitors.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

These are a reference mini monitor and will reward like little else at their price

Hi CnE

But then again at £810 there is ATC's curved SCM7 monitors.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I suspect the SCM 7s wouldn't have the scale to fill a room that size.

Also, note that I didn't say, "like nothing else"....I would love to hear a comparison.

 

[davedotco]

These are a reference mini monitor and will reward like little else at their price

Hi CnE

But then again at £810 there is ATC's curved SCM7 monitors and to put it mildly ATC know a thing or two about designing and building reference monitors.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Or of course their are active options at that price level.

Depends a lot on partnering equipment and of couse your budget. Realistically, getting the best from LS50s is going to cost you the best part of £2k, speakers + stands + cables + amplifier.

You can of course do it in stages but be aware that the LS50s can prove rather dissapointing when partnered with lesser amplifiers. You need reasonable power but some finesse too, not cheap.

DocG has the right idea, powering them with the baby Devialet, that should do it.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Dave

Active speakers - now CnE won't be able to also talk about speaker cables

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

These are a reference mini monitor and will reward like little else at their price

Hi CnE

But then again at £810 there is ATC's curved SCM7 monitors.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I suspect the SCM 7s wouldn't have the scale to fill a room that size.

Also, note that I didn't say, "like nothing else"....I would love to hear a comparison.

Hi CnE

Yes, I know what you said.

I think you would be pleasantly surprised the scale curved SCM7 monitors are capable of.

A comparison - go for it but before you do so please give your view on SCM11 MK1 monitors in the other thread.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi CnE

Yes, I know what you said.

I think you would be pleasantly surprised the scale curved SCM7 monitors are capable of.

A comparison - go for it but before you do so please give your view on SCM11 MK1 monitors in the other thread.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Are you saying that the SCM 7s are a sensible choice for the OP's size of room?

This is a thread about the LS50s, but if you want to talk the OP into some ATCs, be my guest.

 

[Broner]

-

 

[BenLaw]

Hi CnE

Yes, I know what you said.

I think you would be pleasantly surprised the scale curved SCM7 monitors are capable of.

A comparison - go for it but before you do so please give your view on SCM11 MK1 monitors in the other thread.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Are you saying that the SCM 7s are a sensible choice for the OP's size of room?

Kef driver size is 130mm with listed max output of 106db, ATC's is 125mm with max 103db. I don't see the big difference in terms of suitability to room size.

 

[Al ears]

Personally I think that the overall room size is irrelevent when you have a listening position 2 to 3m away.

He is not trying to fill the room.

Agree both KEF and ATC will need a beefy amplifier.

Strongly suggest OP auditions 'in house' if he can before parting with his cash.

 

[CnoEvil]

Kef driver size is 130mm with listed max output of 106db, ATC's is 125mm with max 103db. I don't see the big difference in terms of suitability to room size.

I am working on the experience that I had using a simarly small sealed speaker, with a 6" woofer, in a large room (SA 1). It sounded brilliant in the smallish demo room, but totally anaemic in my large room.

My current MA 852MDs which are sealed, have an 8" woofer and measure H450 x W250 x D265mm, just about cope in that room.

 

[BenLaw]

Can't really think of a reason why sealed v ported would make much difference to 'room filling' capabilities and given you haven't heard the SCM7s I'd be more inclined to trust the manufacturer's respective specs, which indicate they would do a similar job in that regard.

 

[nopiano]

Agree with the general thrust of remarks, particularly Al's suggestion about trying in the room (why wouldn't you?). But if one is 103dB and the other 106dB that is twice as loud, though I'd also suggest that max output is irrelevant, as sensitivity will be what stands out in reality. Turning up the volume until the amp sounds out of puff and finding things still a bit lifeless is what you want to avoid, nearfield or not.

 

[CnoEvil]

Can't really think of a reason why sealed v ported would make much difference to 'room filling' capabilities and given you haven't heard the SCM7s I'd be more inclined to trust the manufacturer's respective specs, which indicate they would do a similar job in that regard.

The whole point of a port is to get more bass out of any given box size. Now I agree "more", doesn't necessarily mean better.

I don't judge a speaker on its specs until I hear how it behaves in my room. My IQ9s said they went down to 35 Hz, but weren't in the same league as my Refs, which have a similar figure.

 

[davedotco]

Agree with the general thrust of remarks, particularly Al's suggestion about trying in the room (why wouldn't you?). But if one is 103dB and the other 106dB that is twice as loud, though I'd also suggest that max output is irrelevant, as sensitivity will be what stands out in reality. Turning up the volume until the amp sounds out of puff and finding things still a bit lifeless is what you want to avoid, nearfield or not.

That is, in the current parlance of this forum, "complete nonsense"........ 😉

Easy to get confused, as raising the output level of a speaker by 3dB does require the amplifier to deliver twice the power.

On a music signal a 3dB increase in level is percieved as a clearly obseved, but small increase in volume. "Twice as loud" was defined as a 10dB increase in the measured sound pressure level but this is 'measured', not observed.

When normal people are tested, the 'average' observation is that twice as loud equates to about 8dB, but it is different for everyone. Interestingly if the test is done at low level, the perception is that twice as loud equates to about 10dB measured wheras at higher levels a smaller change is enough, typically 6-8dB.

 

[Scissor_digits]

To answer the OP's original questions I listen to mine at just under 3m away and they are very detailed without being clinical. They are ALMOST as good as Guru QM10's but for less than half the money.

I would reinforce an earlier comment about stands. I had previously been a bit of a sceptic regarding the difference stands can make but having replaced Atacama Nexus 6 stands without any filling with Custom Design FS104 Signatures with inert filling I am a sceptic no longer. They tighten up and focus the presentation of the LS50's

 

[BenLaw]

Agree with the general thrust of remarks, particularly Al's suggestion about trying in the room (why wouldn't you?). But if one is 103dB and the other 106dB that is twice as loud, though I'd also suggest that max output is irrelevant, as sensitivity will be what stands out in reality. Turning up the volume until the amp sounds out of puff and finding things still a bit lifeless is what you want to avoid, nearfield or not.

That is, in the current parlance of this forum, "complete nonsense"........ 😉

Easy to get confused, as raising the output level of a speaker by 3dB does require the amplifier to deliver twice the power.

On a music signal a 3dB increase in level is percieved as a clearly obseved, but small increase in volume. "Twice as loud" was defined as a 10dB increase in the measured sound pressure level but this is 'measured', not observed.

When normal people are tested, the 'average' observation is that twice as loud equates to about 8dB, but it is different for everyone. Interestingly if the test is done at low level, the perception is that twice as loud equates to about 10dB measured wheras at higher levels a smaller change is enough, typically 6-8dB.

Beat me to it. And most people probably couldn't tell a difference of 1db and may struggle with 2db, so the 3db is 'a little bit louder' only.

 

[davedotco]

Beat me to it. And most people probably couldn't tell a difference of 1db and may struggle with 2db, so the 3db is 'a little bit louder' only.

The interesting work being done at this time is to relate peoples perception of 'loudness' with measred differences in SPL.

Of couse, as they are totally subjective assessments, so there is no right or wrong answer but when tested against measured results the spread in the assessment of when something is twice as loud is quite large, anywhere from a measured 6dB difference to about 12dB. It also shows that these assessments vary with level and that percieved loudness is closely related to distortion content in steady tones at least.

Of interest to hi-fi enthusiasts is that it is clear that distortion levels on music relate strongly to percieved loudness, for example a valve amplifier, with high levels of harmonic distortion, sounds louder than a comparable solid state amplifier at the same measured level.

Similarly solid state amplifiers that appear to drive 'difficult' speakers to higher percieved levels, may simply have higher levels of harmonic distortion..... :?

 

[David Palmar]

I have purchased the Kefs and they are due to arrive next week. Thank you for the replies and the entertaining and informative side-debate!

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi CnE

Yes, I know what you said.

I think you would be pleasantly surprised the scale curved SCM7 monitors are capable of.

A comparison - go for it but before you do so please give your view on SCM11 MK1 monitors in the other thread.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Are you saying that the SCM 7s are a sensible choice for the OP's size of room?

This is a thread about the LS50s, but if you want to talk the OP into some ATCs, be my guest.

Hi CnE

I take it you're still not pleased that in another thread last Sunday i didn't go along with you and instead i pointed out to the OP that we use basic interconnects.

Anyway, listening distance 2-3m.

I haven't communicated with the OP.

I see that you've once again chosen not to give your take on the review of the ATC transducers which you posted.

Btw, no need to be so touchy about threads being specific to a product and if you still feel this way then perhaps in the first instance you should follow your own advice. Or may be its for only when it suits and even then being selective - for show.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi David Palmar

Congratulations and i hope that you enjoy the performance of the LS50 speakers for many years to come.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[npoguy]

Hi CnE

Yes, I know what you said.

I think you would be pleasantly surprised the scale curved SCM7 monitors are capable of.

A comparison - go for it but before you do so please give your view on SCM11 MK1 monitors in the other thread.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Are you saying that the SCM 7s are a sensible choice for the OP's size of room?

This is a thread about the LS50s, but if you want to talk the OP into some ATCs, be my guest.

Hi CnE

I take it you're still not pleased that in another thread last Sunday i didn't go along with you and instead i pointed out to the OP that we use basic interconnects.

Anyway, listening distance 2-3m.

I haven't communicated with the OP.

I see that you've once again chosen not to give your take on the review of the ATC transducers which you posted.

Btw, no need to be so touchy about threads being specific to a product and if you still feel this way then perhaps in the first instance you should follow your own advice. Or may be its for only when it suits and even then being selective - for show.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

This site has officially become the Groundhog Day site...same 15-20 people arguing over the same stupid things, making the same arguments and trading the same insults, day after day. Anyone else just lurks for fear of being drawn into this mess.

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi CnE

I take it you're still not pleased that in another thread last Sunday i didn't go along with you and instead i pointed out to the OP that we use basic interconnects.

Anyway, listening distance 2-3m.

I haven't communicated with the OP.

I see that you've once again chosen not to give your take on the review of the ATC transducers which you posted.

Btw, no need to be so touchy about threads being specific to a product and if you still feel this way then perhaps in the first instance you should follow your own advice. Or may be its for only when it suits and even then being selective - for show.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I have no idea where you are getting your strange ideas from.

It makes absolutely no difference to me whether or not you advise the use of basic cables.

I'm not really sure what you are even on about, as (IIRC) I haven't directed a post to you in some time (only replied to yours).

In case it's this - On Sunday 4th May I copied a piece that directly related to the topic that IrwinC had posted, in case he would find it of interest.....which he obviously did, as he took the trouble to post "CnoEvil, thanks for the long interesting review."

You then started questioning me about the SCM 11s, which given that you sell them, is more than a little odd.....usually it works the other way round.

This current thread is about LS50s, and again I posted what i considered relevent info to the person asking....and again it was you who quoted me, brought SCM7s into the equasion and challanged me again for my thoughts. This is not helpful to the OP, and my replies to you have been nothing but polite and respectful, but feel free to show me otherwise.

Now do you think that you could stalk someone else for a while and give me a break. :beer: