Just put in some mains cable upgrades

[BigH]

so all the reviews are basically lies http://www.whathifi.com/reviews/accessories/mains-products ?

Unless they used blind testing I would take them with a pinch of salt.

 

[kmlav]

Naim power line £450. No comment

Not bad for a tenners worth of components

Probably a bit more than £10 for the components and production costs, I would have thought there were some R&D costs to cover as well. But there is no getting away from £450 is a load of cash for a mains cable upgrade.

One of the things with Manufacturing is if you sell very little of something the cost of producing it is much higher which probably has something to do with the high price.

 

[professorhat]

so all the reviews are basically lies http://www.whathifi.com/reviews/accessories/mains-products ?

The WHF reviewers also claim that USB cables sound different to each other.

I once asked the WHF reviewers if they would be willing to back up their claims by taking part in a blind test to see if they could really hear any differences. They refused.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/a-challenge-for-whf-reviewers

To be fair, there was no actual refusal, just a lack of response (in the same way many people / organisations don't respond to things that they consider aren't worth responding to).

As I made it clear towards the end of the thread, if you'd actually made some practical effort towards getting this "HIFI MYTH BUSTER EVENT" off the ground by inviting people from all over the industry, sharing plans about where the event could be held and who you'd contacted for that, how you were going to ensure neutrality for both sides etc, it may have seemed a bit more credible and worthy of response.

Instead, you wrote a few posts on a forum, and in those posts, you made it clear that without WHF partaking it wouldn't go ahead, and you slipped you were fully expecting the outcome to be one where they failed. Do you really think therefore this is a suggestion they were going to take seriously and make time for out of their very busy schedule of actually reviewing products and getting a magazine sold?

Of course, it could be read that you were purposefully targetting the magazine to do something you knew they wouldn't respond to, in order to support certain arguments against them, and you actually had no intention of organising such an event. I'm sure that wasn't your intention of course, but it's an interpretation some might take.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Phew! Thought it might be a ripoff

 

[kmlav]

I have just conducted a blind test. I closed my eyes then opened them and I could see everything around me so I have concluded that i'm not blind.

 

[hammill]

I have just conducted a blind test. I closed my eyes then opened them and I could see everything around me so I have concluded that i'm not blind.

 

[steve_1979]

so all the reviews are basically lies http://www.whathifi.com/reviews/accessories/mains-products ?

The WHF reviewers also claim that USB cables sound different to each other.

I once asked the WHF reviewers if they would be willing to back up their claims by taking part in a blind test to see if they could really hear any differences. They refused.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/a-challenge-for-whf-reviewers

To be fair, there was no actual refusal, just a lack of response (in the same way many people / organisations don't respond to things that they consider aren't worth responding to).

As I made it clear towards the end of the thread, if you'd actually made some practical effort towards getting this "HIFI MYTH BUSTER EVENT" off the ground by inviting people from all over the industry, sharing plans about where the event could be held and who you'd contacted for that, how you were going to ensure neutrality for both sides etc, it may have seemed a bit more credible and worthy of response.

Instead, you wrote a few posts on a forum, and in those posts, you made it clear that without WHF partaking it wouldn't go ahead, and you slipped you were fully expecting the outcome to be one where they failed. Do you really think therefore this is a suggestion they were going to take seriously and make time for out of their very busy schedule of actually reviewing products and getting a magazine sold?

Of course, it could be read that you were purposefully targetting the magazine to do something you knew they wouldn't respond to, in order to support certain arguments against them, and you actually had no intention of organising such an event. I'm sure that wasn't your intention of course, but it's an interpretation some might take.

WHF claim in their reviews that USB cables and mains cables make a big difference to the sound. Considering that many people use these reviews for advice on how they should spend their money, is it not unreasonable to ask WHF to back up their claims by taking part in a blind test?

Why do they refuse to even reply to this request?

 

[professorhat]

WHF claim in their reviews that USB cables and mains cables make a big difference to the sound. Considering that many people use these reviews for advice on how they should spend their money, is it not unreasonable to ask WHF to back up their claims by taking part in a blind test?

Why do they refuse to even reply to this request?

Sigh...

It's not unreasonable at all to ask and I never said it was. I've attempted to point out why they probably haven't answered, but for some reason addressing this doesn't interest you.

Is it unreasonable for you to answer my queries on why this campaign was solely targetted at WHF and not the industry in general? Or why you've actually made no effort at all to try and setup this event (or at the very least, not presented any evidence of any effort) other than posting a few comments on this forum? Without this, I'm afraid it could definitely still be inferred that you have some sort of hidden agenda, even if this is not the case.

 

[steve_1979]

WHF claim in their reviews that USB cables and mains cables make a big difference to the sound. Considering that many people use these reviews for advice on how they should spend their money, is it not unreasonable to ask WHF to back up their claims by taking part in a blind test?

Why do they refuse to even reply to this request?

Sigh...

It's not unreasonable at all to ask and I never said it was. I've attempted to point out why they probably haven't answered, but for some reason addressing this doesn't interest you.

Is it unreasonable for you to answer my queries on why this campaign was solely targetted at WHF and not the industry in general? Or why you've actually made no effort at all to try and setup this event (or at the very least, not presented any evidence of any effort) other than posting a few comments on this forum? Without this, I'm afraid it could definitely still be inferred that you have some sort of hidden agenda, even if this is not the case.

No hidden agenda. I think that most of the WHF reviews are exellent but I also think that the cable reviews are dodgy. Science and logic tells us that USB and mains cables shouldn't make any difference yet WHF claim they do. I just asked them to proove it.

The reason that I only asked WHF is because I occasionally read the magazine and have been a regular poster on this forum for several years. I never read any other hifi magazines or post on their forums.

 

[professorhat]

But do you see my point? Or is this another fruitless conversation (like virtually all of mine seem to have been today...)

 

[CnoEvil]

If WHF produce a good review of something one rates, or even owns, then they are great, knowledgeable and experienced reviewers. If WHF report hearing differences in things that don't fit with ones' view of the world, then they are deluded, mistaken, misguided and irresponsible.

It's the same people, with the same experience, yet somehow all that seems to desert them with certain products....Go figure!

 

[steve_1979]

I haven't attempted to arrange any 'event'. But if WHF were willing to backup their cable claims I would be happy to arrange some blind tests for them.

 

[CnoEvil]

But do you see my point? Or is this another fruitless conversation (like virtually all of mine seem to have been today...)

It's certainly much less frustrating reading the efforts of others (and sympathizing), than doing this :wall: ..........I know better than most. :doh:

 

[steve_1979]

...If WHF report hearing differences in things that don't fit with ones view of the world, then they are deluded, mistaken, misguided and irresponsible.

What about when WHF cable reviews report hearing differences that don't fit in with the laws of physics and well understood electrical engineering principles? Could that be deluded, mistaken or misguided?

 

[CnoEvil]

...If WHF report hearing differences in things that don't fit with ones' view of the world, then they are deluded, mistaken, misguided and irresponsible.

What about when WHF cable reviews report hearing differences that don't fit in with the laws of physics and well understood electrical engineering principles? Could that be deluded, mistaken or misguided?

There's more to science than you've been led to believe.

(that's not an excuse for a polemic argument btw)

Another thing for your "to-do list"...........compare a Vertere DD-Fi USB cable with a cheap one.....and report what you hear. I can live with the result either way.

 

[professorhat]

I haven't attempted to arrange any 'event'. But if WHF were willing to backup their cable claims I would be happy to arrange some blind tests for them.

I know you haven't. This is the point I'm trying to make. You have offered to set up an event if WHF are willing to partake in it (I can quote you directly saying this from the thread you've linked to above if you'd like). But only if WHF are willing to partake. If this subject interests you so much, why is it WHF and WHF alone must partake in this event? The results would be just as relevant if any other member of the industry who makes these claims took part, and your claim that you're happy to setup such an event would have a lot more credibility if you were actively seeking out other people to do so.

But if you can't be bothered to do that, why should the WHF team be bothered to respond to your whims?

 

[steve_1979]

I haven't attempted to arrange any 'event'. But if WHF were willing to backup their cable claims I would be happy to arrange some blind tests for them.

I know you haven't. This is the point I'm trying to make. You have offered to set up an event if WHF are willing to partake in it (I can quote you directly saying this from the thread you've linked to above if you'd like). But only if WHF are willing to partake. If this subject interests you so much, why is it WHF and WHF alone must partake in this event? The results would be just as relevant if any other member of the industry who makes these claims took part, and your claim that you're happy to setup such an event would have a lot more credibility if you were actively seeking out other people to do so.

But if you can't be bothered to do that, why should the WHF team be bothered to respond to your whims?

Yes it's just as relevant to the other hifi magazines too. But as I said, I asked WHF because I read their magazine and post on their forum.

If I join the forums of the other hifi magazines and asked them to take part in USB/mains cable blind tests aswell would WHF be willing to take part then?

 

[professorhat]

Okay, I give up. Seems either I can no longer speak English properly, or I'm being deliberately misunderstood... :?

 

[professorhat]

But do you see my point? Or is this another fruitless conversation (like virtually all of mine seem to have been today...)

It's certainly much less frustrating reading the efforts of others (and sympathizing), than doing this :wall: ..........I know better than most. :doh:

Quite, I'm going back to being the observer again for a while

 

[TrevC]

so all the reviews are basically lies http://www.whathifi.com/reviews/accessories/mains-products ?

They are nonsense, yes.

 

[TrevC]

If WHF produce a good review of something one rates, or even owns, then they are great, knowledgeable and experienced reviewers. If WHF report hearing differences in things that don't fit with ones' view of the world, then they are deluded, mistaken, misguided and irresponsible.

It's the same people, with the same experience, yet somehow all that seems to desert them with certain products....Go figure!

Self proclaimed experts really should know better. But they probably aren't technically educated, so don't know that listenihg to mains stuff is pointless.

 

[CnoEvil]

If WHF produce a good review of something one rates, or even owns, then they are great, knowledgeable and experienced reviewers. If WHF report hearing differences in things that don't fit with ones' view of the world, then they are deluded, mistaken, misguided and irresponsible.

It's the same people, with the same experience, yet somehow all that seems to desert them with certain products....Go figure!

Self proclaimed experts really should know better. But they probably aren't technically educated, so don't know that listenihg to mains stuff is pointless.

Well, that's them told......

 

[ifor]

I'm just stunned at how disrespectful some people can be to the kind folk who host this forum for us.

 

[matt49]

Self proclaimed experts really should know better. But they probably aren't technically educated, so don't know that listenihg to mains stuff is pointless.

Well, that's them told......

There's been a lot of educashun on the forum lately. I think we've ended up in an informal audiophools summer school.

 

[the record spot]

Yes it's just as relevant to the other hifi magazines too. But as I said, I asked WHF because I read their magazine and post on their forum.

If I join the forums of the other hifi magazines and asked them to take part in USB/mains cable blind tests aswell would WHF be willing to take part then?

Seeing as you frequent the AVI forum as well Steve, their mantra off-pat is to lambast WHFS&V. The problem with that is that it's pointing the finger at the wrong target IMO. Of all the magazines out there, WHF by and large reviews a huge amount of wallet-friendly gear. If you wanted to take a pop at some of these magazines, point the finger at something like HiFi+ which typically reviews the insane end of the price spectrum. Roy Gregory, the former editor, used to rave over Nordost cables costing thousands and get them to justify that.

To my mind, that's where your issue is, not whether or not a £50 cable makes a difference from a £10 one. However, it's popular to bash WHF on the AVI forum and it's the only title mentioned, so really, your argument isn't with WHF alone, and the POV that you come here and it's where you also post is a tad lightweight, again IMO. This is something you level across the board otherwise, it just seems like sour grapes at one particular title.