Just put in some mains cable upgrades

[steve_1979]

...and have high purity copper wiring...

Standard mains copper cables do have a high purity of copper. Even if they're only 99.9% pure copper it doesn't matter that they're not perfect because they're a very thick gauge so that they'll have a low enough resistance for it to be irrelevant.

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm sorry Cno. I don't mean to be pedantic or rude but some of your comments show that you don't really understand what's involved regarding how electric cables actually work. What your comments are doing is scaremongering unnecessarily.

For the record I do agree that electonics can sometimes be effected by EMI where shielding and/or filtering would help. But it's worth pointing that for most people in most circumstances the levels of EMI are going to be far below the levels where it can make any noticable difference.

I'm not trying to do anything of the sort.

It's quite simple......I try something, and pass on what I hear. People can then try for themselves, and they will either agree, or disagree. Simples..

What you do is read up on one side of the argument, and that becomes "fact". It then becomes a substitute for listening.

On that note, I'm out......because you are not going to talk me out of what I can hear, and I'm not going to convince you that what you've read isn't the whole truth.

So my friend, I bid you goodnight.

 

[CnoEvil]

It's not strange.

I know.

...but if we're talking Guinness, Poitín or Black Bush, that's different. :shifty:

 

[Covenanter]

...A well constructed one will reject RFI and EMI...

You say that it can reject both RFI and EMI?

If you want a detailed answer, you would be better speaking to the likes of John Carrick (Atlas) or Darren (Clearer Audio)...I'll have a go, but don't take it as gospel....and I'm not getting into a long argument / debate over it.

Things that reject EMI and RFI:

- A metal housing

- Braiding of wiring

- Isolation of sockets prevents interaction between them

- Shielded cables using a metal foil which shunt electromagnetic energy to the ground.

- Low pass filtering

- Passive filtering

But none of these things do anything about noise already in the cable I believe. As for "Shielded cables using a metal foil which shunt electromagnetic energy to the ground." that's just hocus pocus. Mains electricity is "electromagnetic energy" so does it shunt that to the ground too? And if you are talking about high frequency noise perhaps you could explain how that would get past the rather huge capacitor in the power supply of whatever piece of kit we are talking about? (I did a whole year of a course during my first degree studing electromagnetism and whilst that was a few years ago I don't think the woofle dust has got into physics since then. I can tell you as a matter of fact that this is baloney.)

To be frank I don't think you can explain any of these things and your "I'm not getting sucked into this" is just an excuse for not having any answers. I'm sorry to be confrontational but hey ho there you go!

Chris

PS The wine was rather good, much better that the first bottle I had a year ago, so I think it has aged well. It is indeed a transitory pleasure but at least it's a real one.

PPS Smiley to Esterhase - "Ever bought a fake picture?" Esterhase to Smiley "I've sold a few".

 

[steve_1979]

What you do is read up on one side of the argument, and that becomes "fact". It then becomes a substitute for listening.

But what I said IS fact. It's not one side of an 'argument' as you put it. Power cables aren't complicated or magic there are just some very simple and basic scientific principles involved regarding current and resistance.

As I said I don't mean to be rude but you clearly don't understand these basic scientific principles involved with how electric cables work and your comments may confuse people into thinking that standard copper cables can't do their job properly when they do.

 

[kmlav]

Its only day one but after a couple of hours listening to the awesome black crows im starting to think that the system does sound a bit better, and im a cynic on this issue but I thought I would give it a try.

Im going to order a better mains extension to see if that make a difference

 

[kmlav]

normally you can see all that there is a cover for the mains area as part of the rack

 

[CnoEvil]

Im going to order a better mains extension to see if that make a difference

Get one that you can return......distance selling regs are your friend, if you don't get a sympathetic seller.

The other crowd that do this sort of thing is: http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/9-mains-extention-products.

It is worth speaking to someone more knowledgeable than me, to get the other side......because there is another side.

Which one are you thinking of getting?

 

[steve_1979]

Its only day one but after a couple of hours listening to the awesome black crows im starting to think that the system does sound a bit better, and im a cynic on this issue but I thought I would give it a try.

Im going to order a better mains extension to see if that make a difference

I'm glad you're enjoying your new cables. Honestly I really am .

But as you're not comparing them to the old cables in a 'blind' comparison you should be wary and sceptical of any differences that you hear. If you know which set of cables you're using you may simply be succumbing to the effects of expection bias.

 

[kmlav]

the main issue is finding one that fits in the mains space of the Hark stand but having had a good look the Isotek EV03 polaris is the front runner, but as you say I want to be able to sent it back if I dont think it is improving playback.

 

[kmlav]

yeah steve 1979 i know what you mean. I love music, hence the Hi Fi hobby, so I find it really easy to get sucked into the tunes and forget about the hi fi kit but in some ways this is what defines good kit. I never look for anything in kit apart from enjoyment of the music and anything that make the music better is a good thing.

 

[steve_1979]

So long as you're enjoying your music and hifi that's all that matters at the end of the day. :cheers:

 

[Alantiggger]

Russ Andrews... some are too obsessed or.... ?

 

[matt49]

I've nearly finished a bottle of Corton "Clos du Roi" 2006 and you could get several of those for the price of this stuff. I guess it's a question of values but I'd rather have the genuine pleasure of several bottles of fine Burgundy than the dubious benefit of some pieces of copper.

Chris

Mmm, nice. Which domaine?

I'm with you on this one. Great red Burgundy is magical, and its taste stays in the memory for years. (Though I'd strongly recommend trying some fine German pinot noir e.g. from Rudolf Furst or Enderle & Moll, which is better VFM than Burgundy and has the same magic.)

:cheers:

Matt

 

[DIB]

I prefer Australian table wines myself..

http://youtu.be/Cozw088w44Q

.

 

[steve_1979]

...that are not "daisy chained" (which means they are draining power from each other).

Draining power from each other?

How much current do you think hifi equipment needs? Unless your amplifiers are producing several kilowatts of power standard sockets are more than capable of providing all the power that your hifi could possibly need.

Standard mains sockets provide all the power that kettles, microwaves, power tools and lawnmowers need. Do you think that HiFi equipment would need more power than any of these?

 

[TrevC]

the main issue is finding one that fits in the mains space of the Hark stand but having had a good look the Isotek EV03 polaris is the front runner, but as you say I want to be able to sent it back if I dont think it is improving playback.

it can't affect sound quality so buy it on looks, if you think it's worth the money.

 

[Covenanter]

I've nearly finished a bottle of Corton "Clos du Roi" 2006 and you could get several of those for the price of this stuff. I guess it's a question of values but I'd rather have the genuine pleasure of several bottles of fine Burgundy than the dubious benefit of some pieces of copper.

Chris

Mmm, nice. Which domaine?

I'm with you on this one. Great red Burgundy is magical, and its taste stays in the memory for years. (Though I'd strongly recommend trying some fine German pinot noir e.g. from Rudolf Furst or Enderle & Moll, which is better VFM than Burgundy and has the same magic.)

:cheers:

Matt

"Domaine du Montille"

New Zealand is producing some fine Pinot nowadays too.

Chris

 

[Covenanter]

So long as you're enjoying your music and hifi that's all that matters at the end of the day. :cheers:

Absolutely! I'm 100% with people who say they can hear a difference from whatever piece of kit they buy. What gets my goat is when people surround it with pseudo-science! If someone hears something that becomes evidence and has to be taken into account. When people tell me "Shielded cables using a metal foil which shunt electromagnetic energy to the ground." I have a hissy fit and like Goering I reach for my Browning.

Chris

 

[CnoEvil]

When people tell me "Shielded cables using a metal foil which shunt electromagnetic energy to the ground." I have a hissy fit and like Goering I reach for my Browning.

Chris

This is the passage I lifted it from:

.

"RF and interference signals can be reduced by adding screening or shielding the

complete cable. A cable shield may be composed of braided strands of a metal such

as copper or a non-braided spiral winding of copper tape, or a layer of conducting

polymer; a metal foil which is bonded to a plastic film. This is the type of shielding

used for Atlas EOS power cables and the shield acts as a Faraday cage so that any

electrical signals on the outside of the cage will not be present on the inside of the

cage. The shield works by shunting electromagnetic energy (the RF or interference

signal) to the ground. To do this effectively a shield needs to cover the conductors

completely, so that RF energy cannot readily pass through any holes in the shield; it

must have good conductivity so that energy can be easily conducted to the ground;

and naturally there must be a good connection to the ground at the end of the cable."

If you think it's b*ll*x, give John Carrick a ring and I'm sure will be happy to explain further.

 

[steve_1979]

I agree that metal foil can make an effective shield against RFI and may be useful in a few rare cases where your listening room has an excessive amount of RFI.

But the bit about 'shunting energy to the ground'... Oh dear. :?

 

[TrevC]

When people tell me "Shielded cables using a metal foil which shunt electromagnetic energy to the ground." I have a hissy fit and like Goering I reach for my Browning.

Chris

This is the passage I lifted it from:

.

"RF and interference signals can be reduced by adding screening or shielding the

complete cable. A cable shield may be composed of braided strands of a metal such

as copper or a non-braided spiral winding of copper tape, or a layer of conducting

polymer; a metal foil which is bonded to a plastic film. This is the type of shielding

used for Atlas EOS power cables and the shield acts as a Faraday cage so that any

electrical signals on the outside of the cage will not be present on the inside of the

cage. The shield works by shunting electromagnetic energy (the RF or interference

signal) to the ground. To do this effectively a shield needs to cover the conductors

completely, so that RF energy cannot readily pass through any holes in the shield; it

must have good conductivity so that energy can be easily conducted to the ground;

and naturally there must be a good connection to the ground at the end of the cable."

If you think it's b*ll*x, give John Carrick a ring and I'm sure will be happy to explain further.

It's a solution to a non-existent problem.

 

[Covenanter]

When people tell me "Shielded cables using a metal foil which shunt electromagnetic energy to the ground." I have a hissy fit and like Goering I reach for my Browning.

Chris

This is the passage I lifted it from:

.

"RF and interference signals can be reduced by adding screening or shielding the

complete cable. A cable shield may be composed of braided strands of a metal such

as copper or a non-braided spiral winding of copper tape, or a layer of conducting

polymer; a metal foil which is bonded to a plastic film. This is the type of shielding

used for Atlas EOS power cables and the shield acts as a Faraday cage so that any

electrical signals on the outside of the cage will not be present on the inside of the

cage. The shield works by shunting electromagnetic energy (the RF or interference

signal) to the ground. To do this effectively a shield needs to cover the conductors

completely, so that RF energy cannot readily pass through any holes in the shield; it

must have good conductivity so that energy can be easily conducted to the ground;

and naturally there must be a good connection to the ground at the end of the cable."

If you think it's b*ll*x, give John Carrick a ring and I'm sure will be happy to explain further.

Many years ago Isaac Asimov (who was an eminent chemist as well as a science fiction writer) wrote a book about science and scientific fallacies. In it he explained that he often got plans from people who had invented perpetual motion machines but he never bothered to look at them in detail because he knew that they didn't work because such a thing would contradict a basic scientific law. Now I'm not a scientist, eminent or otherwise, but I do have a scientific education and know which things are possible and which things aren't.

Chris

 

[CnoEvil]

Many years ago Isaac Asimov (who was an eminent chemist as well as a science fiction writer) wrote a book about science and scientific fallacies. In it he explained that he often got plans from people who had invented perpetual motion machines but he never bothered to look at them in detail because he knew that they didn't work because such a thing would contradict a basic scientific law. Now I'm not a scientist, eminent or otherwise, but I do have a scientific education and know which things are possible and which things aren't.

Chris

The shielding of cables is not a black art.....how to carry it out, and the reason for doing so, is generally accepted (but not universally so, obviously).

Wikipedia doesn't sell cables, and here is their take: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shielded_cable

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Somewhat reluctant to join these cable debates but having a few moments to let my lunch go down ....
Shielded cable (obviously) has its uses and IMO may be of benefit in some situations. However, very expensive shielded cables?? A 'standard' shielded cable should be little more expensivemaybe.
Meanwhile. Back in my shed ....