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Just a bit of fun... how good is your hearing?

jjbomber

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2006
688
228
19,270
insider9 said:
Just a little bit of fun. Have a look at the link here. Download install, plug your headphones in and enjoy.
Watch the M&S Christmas ad. What does the burgler say to Paddington Bear at the end? If you think he swears, you are going deaf!
 

newlash09

Well-known member
Aug 28, 2015
163
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4,595
and it runs in the family. Recently had an friend over to listen to my system. He claimed to hear differences between the dac's and even cables. And that kind of left me thinking if iam paying for benefits that I can't really hear.
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
740
301
5,270
newlash09 said:
and it runs in the family. Recently had an friend over to listen to my system. He claimed to hear differences between the dac's and even cables. And that kind of left me thinking if iam paying for benefits that I can't really hear.
It give it time. As your system is new you will notice different things over a period of time. Then and only then you'll be able to tell the finest details apart. I wouldn't worry it may not be your hearing just that there's too much I to to process.
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
Has anyone who has got to plus forty gone to specsavers and done one of those free hearing tests. I might be tempted.
 

andyjm

New member
Jul 20, 2012
15
0
0
newlash09 said:
and it runs in the family. Recently had an friend over to listen to my system. He claimed to hear differences between the dac's and even cables. And that kind of left me thinking if iam paying for benefits that I can't really hear.
We all are.

Age related hearing loss is a fact unfortunately. At 40 years old, your hearing will be at least 15dB down from 4KHz onward in comparison with your younger self (remember dB is a log scale, 3dB is half as sensitive, so 15dB is a big decline). Again at 40, 14KHz is going to be about the limit of your hearing. This continues to worsen with age. A Google search for age related hearing loss will bring up many scary graphs about what awaits all of us.

The much quoted 20Hz to 20KHz range really only applies to young children before the inevitable noise pollution, wear and tear of your hearing equipment and age related decay cuts in.

It is an interesting question if some aging rocker with trashed hearing is sitting in the control room directing the mix, who is he mixing it for?
 

nopiano

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2009
265
151
19,070
andyjm said:
newlash09 said:
and it runs in the family. Recently had an friend over to listen to my system. He claimed to hear differences between the dac's and even cables. And that kind of left me thinking if iam paying for benefits that I can't really hear.
We all are.

Age related hearing loss is a fact unfortunately. At 40 years old, your hearing will be at least 15dB down from 4KHz onward in comparison with your younger self (remember dB is a log scale, 3dB is half as sensitive, so 15dB is a big decline). Again at 40, 14KHz is going to be about the limit of your hearing. This continues to worsen with age. A Google search for age related hearing loss will bring up many scary graphs about what awaits all of us.

The much quoted 20Hz to 20KHz range really only applies to young children before the inevitable noise pollution, wear and tear of your hearing equipment and age related decay cuts in.

It is an interesting question if some aging rocker with trashed hearing is sitting in the control room directing the mix, who is he mixing it for?
This is very relevant. And yet...surely, whatever one hears it is the brain doing the perceiving, so if the aging rocker mixes what he hears it will still equal the original event, won’t it? Otherwise, many recordings would have greatly exaggerated treble...
 

newlash09

Well-known member
Aug 28, 2015
163
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4,595
Thought I'd mention this here, to avoid another cable war if I mention this in a seperate post. I went to listen to my friends setup yesterday. He has Yamaha active speakers with 12 inch drivers. The source was the wxc-50 going into a north star dac. The detail and clarity was amazing. And when he changed the power cable that came with the yamaha, and replaced it with the white cable, that came with his airport express. The jump in clarity and detail was really noticable. That got me thinking that even power cables make a difference. And later we changed to the Chromecast audio, and when changing the default usb cable to audioquest cinnamon, again the detail was improved over the stock usb cable. I was actually glad to hear the differences.
 

andyjm

New member
Jul 20, 2012
15
0
0
newlash09 said:
Thought I'd mention this here, to avoid another cable war if I mention this in a seperate post. I went to listen to my friends setup yesterday. He has Yamaha active speakers with 12 inch drivers. The source was the wxc-50 going into a north star dac. The detail and clarity was amazing. And when he changed the power cable that came with the yamaha, and replaced it with the white cable, that came with his airport express. The jump in clarity and detail was really noticable. That got me thinking that even power cables make a difference. And later we changed to the Chromecast audio, and when changing the default usb cable to audioquest cinnamon, again the detail was improved over the stock usb cable. I was actually glad to hear the differences.
Just go on to Wikipedia, and search for 'list of cognitive biases'

I hadn't come across the list until recently. It is illuminating.
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
nopiano said:
andyjm said:
newlash09 said:
and it runs in the family. Recently had an friend over to listen to my system. He claimed to hear differences between the dac's and even cables. And that kind of left me thinking if iam paying for benefits that I can't really hear.
We all are.

Age related hearing loss is a fact unfortunately. At 40 years old, your hearing will be at least 15dB down from 4KHz onward in comparison with your younger self (remember dB is a log scale, 3dB is half as sensitive, so 15dB is a big decline). Again at 40, 14KHz is going to be about the limit of your hearing. This continues to worsen with age. A Google search for age related hearing loss will bring up many scary graphs about what awaits all of us.

The much quoted 20Hz to 20KHz range really only applies to young children before the inevitable noise pollution, wear and tear of your hearing equipment and age related decay cuts in.

It is an interesting question if some aging rocker with trashed hearing is sitting in the control room directing the mix, who is he mixing it for?
This is very relevant. And yet...surely, whatever one hears it is the brain doing the perceiving, so if the aging rocker mixes what he hears it will still equal the original event, won’t it? Otherwise, many recordings would have greatly exaggerated treble...
This is something I brought up in cable debates before. The brain doesn’t do perceiving to the extent it makes up its own sounds so that what we hear in our environment by the physical apparatus of the ear, is different to how our brain perceives it. The reason being that it would confer a select evolutionary disadvantage to us if we can’t hear what our environment is sounding. Just like seeing something and it being something else (taking out visual tricks). This is the case whether age related or not.

Ive brought this up but it wasn’t challenged before but it is interesting because people tend to say in cable debates that people perceive what they want to perceive of differences of cables from within their own brains. I’m afraid this is wrong. Our brain cannot make up its own sounds or the quality of those sounds from the auditory cortex pathway, such thinking is when other centres take over.
 

Rethep

Well-known member
May 2, 2011
15
0
18,520
newlash09 said:
and it runs in the family. Recently had an friend over to listen to my system. He claimed to hear differences between the dac's and even cables. And that kind of left me thinking if iam paying for benefits that I can't really hear.
1. Is it true ? Did you have ABX testing ?

2. Do these small differences matter you ?

3. For a new system: do take some time, as the others tell you here. Subtle, or not so subtle, differences/details might 'show up' later.
 

newlash09

Well-known member
Aug 28, 2015
163
9
4,595
I have always been somebody who couldnt hear differences between DAC's, forget speakers :)

But the difference I heard that day was real. And I want to keep it subdued, because I don't know much about the whole audio thing. And the last thing I want is to be technically examined regarding how I heard it...
 

andyjm

New member
Jul 20, 2012
15
0
0
newlash09 said:
I have always been somebody who couldnt hear differences between DAC's, forget speakers :)

But the difference I heard that day was real. And I want to keep it subdued, because I don't know much about the whole audio thing. And the last thing I want is to be technically examined regarding how I heard it...
Newlash, I don't doubt you heard a difference, that's the whole point. The question is whether the difference you heard was due to a difference in the sound out of the speaker (from your description of the technical changes made, almost certainly not), or whether your perception was altered because of the changes made and expectations around them (the most likely outcome).

I don't know why you wouldn't want to discuss this further - why post on an internet forum otherwise? - and frankly if you are interested in improving the sound out of your system this might be something you would want to be aware of and try and guard against as you try to make improvements.

Unfortunately there is a whole industry based on biases of this nature, and many, many posts on this forum.
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
andyjm said:
newlash09 said:
I have always been somebody who couldnt hear differences between DAC's, forget speakers :)

But the difference I heard that day was real. And I want to keep it subdued, because I don't know much about the whole audio thing. And the last thing I want is to be technically examined regarding how I heard it...
Newlash, I don't doubt you heard a difference, that's the whole point. The question is whether the difference you heard was due to a difference in the sound out of the speaker (from your description of the technical changes made, almost certainly not), or whether your perception was altered because of the changes made and expectations around them (the most likely outcome).

I don't know why you wouldn't want to discuss this further - why post on an internet forum otherwise? - and frankly if you are interested in improving the sound out of your system this might be something you would want to be aware of and try and guard against as you try to make improvements.

Unfortunately there is a whole industry based on biases of this nature, and many, many posts on this forum.
I went to buy a new car which was 150 hp against my current 100hp. I’m sure it was bias though because it has a go faster stripe and aggressive boy racer looks, not to mention more expensive. Even though I felt a great shove in the back of my seat every time I went on the gas, my friend asked me to think about bias, so I took his advice and ended up not buying. Lol.
 

andyjm

New member
Jul 20, 2012
15
0
0
QuestForThe13thNote said:
andyjm said:
newlash09 said:
I have always been somebody who couldnt hear differences between DAC's, forget speakers :)

But the difference I heard that day was real. And I want to keep it subdued, because I don't know much about the whole audio thing. And the last thing I want is to be technically examined regarding how I heard it...
Newlash, I don't doubt you heard a difference, that's the whole point. The question is whether the difference you heard was due to a difference in the sound out of the speaker (from your description of the technical changes made, almost certainly not), or whether your perception was altered because of the changes made and expectations around them (the most likely outcome).

I don't know why you wouldn't want to discuss this further - why post on an internet forum otherwise? - and frankly if you are interested in improving the sound out of your system this might be something you would want to be aware of and try and guard against as you try to make improvements.

Unfortunately there is a whole industry based on biases of this nature, and many, many posts on this forum.
I went to buy a new car which was 150 hp against my current 100hp. I’m sure it was bias though because it has a go faster stripe and aggressive boy racer looks, not to mention more expensive. Even though I felt a great shove in the back of my seat every time I went on the gas, my friend asked me to think about bias, so I took his advice and ended up not buying. Lol.
There are none so blind as those who will not see......
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
Can I ask you what system you have and changes made that lead you to your view?
 

andyjm

New member
Jul 20, 2012
15
0
0
QuestForThe13thNote said:
Can I ask you what system you have and changes made that lead you to your view?
Purpose built listening / cinema room, with acoustically treated walls. Krell amplification with Krell processor, 5 x Martin Logan hybrid electrostatics, Revel B15 sub. Sources - Squeezebox Transporter streamer and Meridian disc spinner. Total cost of equipment when I bought it (which I notice from your posts seem to matter to you) over 30,000.

My view was formed many years ago. I graduated with a degree in electronic eng, and joined the research and designs group of a well known broadcaster. I was fortunate enough to sit through a demonstration of a series of development speakers, with the differences in each model explained to me. Ideal conditions, I was 22 with great hearing, in an ideal studio listening environment. It was great, I could clearly hear the differences, it was night and day. I was a Hifi expert.

Except the speaker was never changed, it was always the same speaker.

The lesson was to never trust your hearing.
 

newlash09

Well-known member
Aug 28, 2015
163
9
4,595
You are right. I've been thinking why this difference all this while too. And I feel my friends setup had two advantages. One- the yamha's have DSP built in. And two - as per available specs, they only go to 52hz at -10db.

As my present speakers can go down to 28hz at -3db, maybe there is lower bass rumble in the track that my system is showing up, and the Yamaha is not. I have high pass filters on my amp, which I plan to engage at approx 60hz and try playing the track again. This will rule out possibility two.

As regarding possibility one, I will have to wait till I introduce a mini-dsp ddrc 22d into the digital chain for DSP and Dirac room correction to see if it helps.

On a seperate note, I bought a audioquest jitter bug to power the Chromecast audio, to see if a better power supply gives dividends. I know it is a case of good money behind bad money. But I thought I'd experiment :)
 

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