Is this vinyl revival thing just a load of nonsense?

[Frank Harvey]

I think the phrase about him 'not getting it' could be what we're talking about here. Some people love the sound of vinyl - mention words like organic and musical and vinyl owners know what you're talking about, but I think to some people it sounds no different to them than their CD player, or their portable DAB radio. I'm not saying people who aren't into vinyl are deaf, but, like most things, some can appreciate it, some can't. Like art.

 

[DandyCobalt]

I think the phrase about him 'not getting it' could be what we're talking about here. Some people love the sound of vinyl - mention words like organic and musical and vinyl owners know what you're talking about, but I think to some people it sounds no different to them than their CD player, or their portable DAB radio. I'm not saying people who aren't into vinyl are deaf, but, like most things, some can appreciate it, some can't. Like art.

It also depends on the quality of the gear you have - just like a magnifying glass versus an electron microscope.

A big HD tv will show up visual flaws and showcase great stuff, just as high quality turntable, speakers etc will show up aural flaws and excellence.

Just like wine - you're a quaffer or a savourer.

 

[Anonymous]

To the OP:

For me, the whole vinyl adulation is a bit silly, really. Side-by-side with other media, it has some advantages (large artworks to look at for hours, warm, sweet sound, etc) but a lot of inconveniences too (surface noise, vinyl deterioration no matter how good and careful you are with your stuff, less material available, and now overpricing to nonsense)

All in all I think LPs are a good hobby, but a hobby, not the ultimate audio experience 😉

 

[Anonymous]

...with more and more music being recorded digitally I can only see records detracting from the original sound - why add in all kinds of mechanical problems into the delivery of music when they don't need to be present?

er no, I have been wondering this myself. All things being equal, I would have thought a CD player would sound better as the recording/mastering etc is in the digital domain and therefore a turntable is adding all sorts of "noise". However, things are not equal as has been stated above:

- the mastering and pressing of a vinyl record may actually be superior than CD.

- the DAC which transforms the original [digital] recording to analogue prior to pressing, is likely to be top notch, compared to the DAC in most people's homes.

That's 2 reasons why vinyl may sound "better" than CD. Any other ideas?

 

[Paul.]

There is that argument about hearing frequency beyond our ears capabilities by skull resonance or something. Im sure someone can fill in the blanks of my iffy statement. CD is capped at the range of human hearing, 20-20k hz, but Vinyl can go beyond this and some believe we can hear this range by alternate methods.

 

[margetti]

There is that argument about hearing frequency beyond our ears capabilities by skull resonance or something. Im sure someone can fill in the blanks of my iffy statement. CD is capped at the range of human hearing, 20-20k hz, but Vinyl can go beyond this and some believe we can hear this range by alternate methods.

Doesn't quite answer the question, but on exactly this point, from the back of a 1965 Audio Fidelity Records jazz album I'm listening to right now...

"While the total frequency range of 16 cps to 25,000 cps on this record may not be within the range of ordinary human hearing, nevertheless inspection of the grooves with a microscope will show the etchings of the upper dynamic frequencies. It is the opinion of the manufacturer that if these frequencies were omitted from this recording a certain warmth of tone that is felt and sensed rather than heard would be lost."

 

[DandyCobalt]

Slash's latest album was recorded to analogue tape - he's made a big deal about the differences that he hears when recording digitally or analogue, and has been very keen to pursue the analogue route, so vinyl should be best reproduction of what he wants us to hear?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Slash-VINYL/dp/B003G4IXA6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328105453&sr=8-1

 

[Anonymous]

As soon as you feel this thread is slowing down, just make sure to end your reply with a:

-"... since cables doesn't impact the sound anyway."

:cheer:

 

[Frank Harvey]

Slash's latest album was recorded to analogue tape - he's made a big deal about the differences that he hears when recording digitally or analogue, and has been very keen to pursue the analogue route, so vinyl should be best reproduction of what he wants us to hear?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Slash-VINYL/dp/B003G4IXA6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328105453&sr=8-1

Seems a popular thing at the moment - the Foo Fighters used analogue for their current album too, and Lenny Kravitz has always stuck to it as the hates digital.

Read somewhere today that Steve Jobs used to listen to his music on vinyl - there's a turn up for the books!

 

[seasonsdownfall]

As others have mentioned it's not a load of 'nonsense' as vinyl sales are on the up, almost year-on-year.

As a 22 year old student, I wouldn't say for me it's a 'fad', others, maybe...

For me, personally, I enjoy owning a record collection which has mostly old, but alot of new vinyl too.

I don't have much of a CD collection, as the majority of mine were stolen years back; so that put me off buying them completely. I think it's important to still own a 'tangible' music collection and definitely adds to the entire process and experience of music.

 

[Paul.]

I don't have much of a CD collection, as the majority of mine were stolen years back; so that put me off buying them completely. I think it's important to still own a 'tangible' music collection and definitely adds to the entire process and experience of music.

Hopefully CDs should be safe(ish) now all thanks to Internet piracy 🙂

http://www.economist.com/node/21542438

 

[Ryan92]

I'm 19, and a lot of people my age (particularly these "hipster" types) do seem to be loving the idea of vinyl at the moment. Note "the idea" I don't think any of them buy it because they genuinely think it sounds better, or any other "logical" reasons. IMO it's because they prefer to be seen listening to vinyl than the actual music. I currently have a TT, though I don't even mention it in my sig, mainly because I think in the last year it's had maybe 10 hours use? It was a hand me down from my dad, along with some old records and MY GOD is it an effort to play (compared to sitting in a bed with airplay on a Macbook). Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of people are looking at upgrading a TT for all the right reasons. But I highly doubt many people with no records or TT would start buying the two given all the alternatives for playback nowadays unless they were trying to immpress someone.

Just my two pence. (deliberate)

 

[Anonymous]

Oi, you, Idiot, come back here I want to tell you how wrong you are! Come back...

I would never have started a thread like this in the first place, if I'm not interested in something then I don't see the point in talking about it

So you're writing a reply to a thread that your not interested in to complain about a thread being started about a subject 'I'm not interested in'?

Anyway the reason I started this really was to get peoples views about vinyl recordings which have been taken from digital masters, not to debate the age-old CD vs vinyl question. I personally would have thought the best way to hear music was through hi res digital downloads from the original digital masters, but few people outside of audiophiles (a fair percentage of forum members) seem to be pushing for these. At the same time people seem to be saying vinyl is the only way to listen to music!

 

[drichardb]

Seems a popular thing at the moment - the Foo Fighters used analogue for their current album too, and Lenny Kravitz has always stuck to it as the hates digital.

Yeah I read that about the Foo's before I heard the album, stuck it on with really high hopes of an awesome sounding album only to find it's been absolutely butchered beyond belief in the mastering process. I literally turned it off after about 40 seconds as its been compressed to hell and the noise level pushed so that everything sounds distorted even at low volumes. It's probably the most disappointed I've been with an album since Death Magnetic - when that came out I actually thought there was a fault with the disc it's that bad.

A friend of mine got the vinyl version of Wasting Light and kindly let me record it to my pc which I converted from WAV to FLAC and I gotta say it's an absolute BELTER, the CD just sounds like mush whereas the vinyl is full of warmth, detail and bags of punch, just how an analogue recording should sound.

Tbh it doesnt matter how an album is recorded, if the mastering engineer compresses the hell out of the recording then it's going to sound terrible.

 

[DandyCobalt]

By coincidence, an interesting article in today's Times quoting Neil Young from a conference yesterday about digital music recording.

He complains that the way music is recorded today - for digital ipod playback - is destroying how it sounds. Due to the extreme compression that is put on it at the recording/mastering stages.

You only need to play a 70s track and a 2000's track into a programme like garageband to see that the "soundwave" in a new track is just a compressed solid block of mush, with very few ups and downs.

 

[seasonsdownfall]

Hopefully CDs should be safe(ish) now all thanks to Internet piracy 🙂

http://www.economist.com/node/21542438

Thanks for the article, will definitely have a read! 🙂

 

[Frank Harvey]

Note "the idea" I don't think any of them buy it because they genuinely think it sounds better, or any other "logical" reasons.

Or because either they KNOW it sounds better, or they prefer the sound... 🙂

 

[Paul.]

I got in to vinyl because I was in to electronic music and wanted to buy white lable tracks so I didnt have to buy god awfull compilations anymore to get the music I liked, or wait ages in hope of a CD single.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Yeah I read that about the Foo's before I heard the album, stuck it on with really high hopes of an awesome sounding album only to find it's been absolutely butchered beyond belief in the mastering process. I literally turned it off after about 40 seconds as its been compressed to hell and the noise level pushed so that everything sounds distorted even at low volumes. It's probably the most disappointed I've been with an album since Death Magnetic - when that came out I actually thought there was a fault with the disc it's that bad.

A friend of mine got the vinyl version of Wasting Light and kindly let me record it to my pc which I converted from WAV to FLAC and I gotta say it's an absolute BELTER, the CD just sounds like mush whereas the vinyl is full of warmth, detail and bags of punch, just how an analogue recording should sound.

I've been waiting to find out how the vinyl compares to the CD. Don't get me wrong, if the vinyl still had the same compression, I'd still prefer the vinyl due it's more natural sound and three dimensional soundstage, and to be fair, it's a rock album - I don't expect jazz levels of perfection. I bought the vinyl when it was released but I haven't had a chance to play it yet as my TT only turned up in December, and it'll be a while yet before it's set up and takes over my 2-channel listening.

I will admit, the opening track of Wasting Light is a little compressed, probably more so than the rest of the album, and there are bits here and there on particular songs that show up readily - Alandria is one of the most impressive tracks on the album to demo stuff like the Blades, even though it probably has the most blatant compression during the chorus. I can live with that as its a rock album, and mixed by Butch Vig, who also mixed Nirvana's Nevermind. I trust him.

 

[Lost Angeles]

Long may vinyl and Turntable sales increase, we may end up with British Turntable manufacturers leading the country out of recession. Well someone has too. ::roll:

 

[CnoEvil]

Long may vinyl and Turntable sales increase, we may end up with British Turntable manufacturers leading the country out of recession. Well someone has too. ::roll:

...Turn-the-Tables, so to speak. 😳

I've been in a weird mood recently (well, weirder than usual, shall we say).......hopefully it'll pass. :roll:

 

[Lost Angeles]

...Turn-the-Tables, so to speak.

:[/quote]

I like that. :cheers: Where's the thumbs up smiley gone?

 

[drichardb]

I've been waiting to find out how the vinyl compares to the CD. Don't get me wrong, if the vinyl still had the same compression, I'd still prefer the vinyl due it's more natural sound and three dimensional soundstage, and to be fair, it's a rock album - I don't expect jazz levels of perfection. I bought the vinyl when it was released but I haven't had a chance to play it yet as my TT only turned up in December, and it'll be a while yet before it's set up and takes over my 2-channel listening.

I will admit, the opening track of Wasting Light is a little compressed, probably more so than the rest of the album, and there are bits here and there on particular songs that show up readily - Alandria is one of the most impressive tracks on the album to demo stuff like the Blades, even though it probably has the most blatant compression during the chorus. I can live with that as its a rock album, and mixed by Butch Vig, who also mixed Nirvana's Nevermind. I trust him.

Here you go - check out this waveform comparison...no prizes for guessing which is the vinyl!

The vinyl is still a tad compressed but the biggest difference is the fact that the WHOLE wavefor is there - no distortion/clipping = full on, in your face, balls out ROCK

 

[busb]

I find it quite ironic that vinyl may well outlast CDs. I don't currently have a record deck (but still have 200+ records) so I can't comment on the merits of vinyl v digital. I did hear Rega's LP3 playing some Brand X in AudioT Reading & was very impressed by the sound - may buy one later this year.

As for teens buying records - I find that rather reassuring. As has been noted: records are fun if not the last word in SQ terms. One thing I liked the most when I bought a CD110 (I think it was that Philips model - 2nd gen with a drawer you could stand on) was the ability to select tracks even if it didn't have a remote.

I now have my entire CD/digital collection available on my TV via Apple TV, transferred at the highest bit rate below Apple Lossless. I can't quite believe how good they sound played through my Panasonic TV into my amp - my Audiolab mDAC is yet to materialise. Having access to my digital music collection with a few clicks AND being able to see the track listings across my livingroom on a 42" plasma is heaven - far more convenient that finding then loading individual CDs.

 

[JamoRoss]

Hi all,

I'd just like to drop my 2 pence in, maybe from looking at this arguement from a different angle...

Nowadays with vinyl, the actual master itself is a digital master, as apposed to a vinyl master which will be mastered in such a way that playing it only vinyl would get the best out of it, as it would if it was mastered for digital purposes.

Labels nowadays will not get a master for both, so will settle for 1 digital master and use that for the vinyl copy too.