Is there much difference in network streamers if internal DAC is bypassed?

[Al ears]

With my home cinema setup and the centre hard against the chimney breast DIRAC made a substantial improvement with the chestiness in dialogue completely eliminated. If anyone has this problem DIRAC is a life saver.

it may well work foe some in an AV situation where you cannot place speakers in different positions but it isn't a cure all in a stereo set-up, however this was posted in the Hifi section of the forum.

 

[RayP]

As far as all the companies I know, there are only 3 I trust - Dirac, Linn and Lyngdorf, and Sonos of course. Those in WiiM and Eversolo are useless.

I’ve only experience with DIRAC. It may appear expensive but if you have a difficult room or restrictions on speaker placement it can be a life saver.

Those considering a streamer or better DAC would be well advised to consider the ICON with a DIRAC licence. £899 + £185 =£1,084.00. Cheaper than many DACs.

 

[RayP]

it may well work foe some in an AV situation where you cannot place speakers in different positions but it isn't a cure all in a stereo set-up, however this was posted in the Hifi section of the forum.

I was just pointing out how a speaker not ideally placed can be saved by DIRAC.

 

[Hondoe1950]

Just to be clear:

The Wiim Ultra does not have DIRAC room correction, but its own room correction software built in. That's why it fails so completely.

 

[manicm]

Just to be clear:

The Wiim Ultra does not have DIRAC room correction, but its own room correction software built in. That's why it fails so completely.

So you would fail a 300 quid component whose primary function is streaming, simply because it has inadequate room correction? You do realise that Dirac costs more than this component?

This is the problem with Gen Z hifi adolescence. They expect the kitchen sink for peanuts, and if it's not gold plated holy murder.

 

[Hondoe1950]

I need to retract my criticism of the WiiM Ultra room correction software. Much to my surprise, the RC on the WiiM is configurable! I discovered this with the great help from members of the WiiM forum, and it’s a total game changer.

I had missed seeing the cog on the top right of the RC screen.

By the way, manicm, I’m 74 years old, not a Gen Z adolescent, and as usual, your comment says more about you than me.

The folks on the forum actually advised me what parameters to set for the RC on the WiiM, and now it sounds incredible. There are even people on the forum who like the WiiM RC better than the DIRAC (and they’ve tried both).

Just goes to show that there’s always more to learn.

 

[The_Lecht_Rocks]

Is there a link to the WiiM forum assistance @Hondoe1950

 

[Hondoe1950]

Yes, here’s the link:

Dirac Live on Ultra and Pro +

I noticed that BluSound Node132 (2024 model) is getting Dirac as a feature, since it shares the hardware (same cpu quad core arm a53 and same sabre ess dac) Wiim should be capable of the same feat. That would indeed sway potential buyers\upgraders to stay with the Wiim brand, myself included as...

forum.wiimhome.com

 

[manicm]

I need to retract my criticism of the WiiM Ultra room correction software. Much to my surprise, the RC on the WiiM is configurable! I discovered this with the great help from members of the WiiM forum, and it’s a total game changer.

I had missed seeing the cog on the top right of the RC screen.

By the way, manicm, I’m 74 years old, not a Gen Z adolescent, and as usual, your comment says more about you than me.

The folks on the forum actually advised me what parameters to set for the RC on the WiiM, and now it sounds incredible. There are even people on the forum who like the WiiM RC better than the DIRAC (and they’ve tried both).

Just goes to show that there’s always more to learn.

I guessed you were not a person in their youth, so I was just indulging outrageously. But I stand by the gist of my argument.

 

[Hondoe1950]

No worries.

Actually, I just was trying to warn others, originally, to use the Wiim Ultra's RC with caution. But I'm happy that I explored this topic as I've learned so much.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

As far as all the companies I know, there are only 3 I trust - Dirac, Linn and Lyngdorf, and Sonos of course. Those in WiiM and Eversolo are useless.

How so?

 

[manicm]

How so?

Because those companies have invested significant time and resources into their room correction technologies. Why does NAD not do their own, for example?

Dirac has been tried and tested, ditto Lyngdorf, ditto Linn - and that's because they've thrown dedicated time and money at their implementations. They invested research and development. WiiM is an admirable company, but their products are in the budget market, so their own room correction or equalisation is never going to be as good as those stated above. Ditto Eversolo. I felt sorry for The Scientific Audiophile on YouTube who spent $4000 on the Eversolo A10 streamer, largely on account of its room EQ, and couldn't calibrate it to his satisfaction. He's yet to make a follow up video on it.

I repeat, Linn, Lyngdorf, Dirac have thrown dedicated time, money and research into their room EQ technologies and they're all acknowledged leaders in their segments. And a fun fact - Linn's room EQ does not use microphones.

NAD and others have immense resources to do so but have chosen not to, Eversolo takes pride in assembling the best off the shelf parts for their streamers alongside their own circuitry, but also have not dedicated significant resources as those I've repeated, again because they can't afford to yet.

A good analogy is ADAS systems in cars, even your cheapest Chinese cars have them but they're not as good as Mercedes, because again the latter has invested time and development into getting them right. And that takes a lot of money.

 

[Gray]

And a fun fact - Linn's room EQ does not use microphones.

What method does it use to assess the acoustics of a room?

 

[manicm]

What method does it use to assess the acoustics of a room?

You enter room dimensions and characteristics, as well as the brand and model of speaker.

 

[Gray]

You enter room dimensions and characteristics, as well as the brand and model of speaker.

No doubt Linn, their dealers and users would tell us that's at least as good as using a mic 🤔

 

[Dave_]

No doubt Linn, their dealers and users would tell us that's at least as good as using a mic 🤔

You no doubt need a PSU upgrade for it to work optimally anyway....

 

[ToppingSMSL]

You enter room dimensions and characteristics, as well as the brand and model of speaker.

Gosh they must have spent a fortune researching that.

 

[Hal9001]

i've seen another discussion on this forum about this issue but would love feedback that is authoritative on it:

If I bypass the DAC in my streamer, is there any real difference between a $400 streamer and a much more expensive one in music quality?

Thanks!

In a double blind test, assuming a level playing field, no.

 

[manicm]

Gosh they must have spent a fortune researching that.

Well they do recommend your dealer do the room correction (the software is free).

 

[manicm]

No doubt Linn, their dealers and users would tell us that's at least as good as using a mic 🤔

Using a mic has nothing to do with it, it's the path Linn chose when they developed Space Optimisation from scratch, the software lets you graphically enter the dimensions, characteristics etc, and then the specific speaker you're using, and if your speaker isn't listed it will take in speaker details.

If you use their Exakt components then it gets even more sophisticated.

Linn have been doing this for 11 years now. So to answer your question Linn dealers would argue not if it's good as using a mic, but better.

 

[Revolutions]

The Linn approach is just a lot of maths, I'm guessing. With the room shape etc + the speaker frequency response it's a fairly straightforward problem to solve if you know the logarithms around acoustics.*

*those logarithms are exactly the reason I didn't get past the first year of my audio engineering degree 😁

 

[Gray]

Using a mic has nothing to do with it

Clearly nothing to do with it for Linn, I realise that 👍

Linn have been doing this for 11 years now. So to answer your question Linn dealers would argue not if it's good as using a mic, but better.

I'm in absolutely no doubt whatsoever that they would argue that it's better 😉

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

If you just enter room size and speakers, aren't you missing speaker position and the effects of soft furnishings/curtains etc?

 

[Revolutions]

If you just enter room size and speakers, aren't you missing speaker position and the effects of soft furnishings/curtains etc?

You do enter speaker & listening location, plus windows. No mention of soft furnishings.

I did mine & it boosted the bass frequency slightly - @ 43 years old with good hearing, I can't tell the difference between additional eq on or off.

 

[nopiano]

You do enter speaker & listening location, plus windows. No mention of soft furnishings.

I did mine & it boosted the bass frequency slightly - @ 43 years old with good hearing, I can't tell the difference between additional eq on or off.

It even includes option for types of wall structure, and for anyone curious to explore further, this is a good place to begin. https://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Space_Optimisation_and_Space_Optimisation+

I don’t use it currently with my Sonus fabers, as the modest room gain I get from being about 900mm from the front wall and corners balances the sound well, without boominess, to my ears. However, when I had Revel M16 Concerta2, to see if they were as amazing as in one particular demo (they weren’t!), the artificial bass bump they engineer in was happily cured by the Linn SO. Obviously the Revels work in some rooms, but they didn’t for me. (I tend to prefer the natural roll off from sealed cabinets, a la ATC Entry series, rather than the peak and crash of many ported designs.)