Is it time to upgrade?

[IJ]

My Hi-Fi is circa 1993 or thereabouts. In brief it consists of a Theta Data Basic 11 transport, Wadia 12 DAC, Exposure pre and power amp(not sure of the actual numbers) speakers were changed from Mission 753's to Quad 11L's a few years ago. Interconnects are I think XLR balanced between DAC and transport, with Van De Hul 1st and 2nd taking care of the rest. Speaker cable is Exposures.

This system has been a fit and don’t touch and I wonder if over the past 15 years or so, things have moved on and an upgrade here or there may make large rewards.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[the record spot]

I would be pretty amazed if the digital technology has moved on so much you could improve on where you currently are without spending some serious money - Theta, Exposure & Wadia kit was good in 1993 and it's probably still the same now.

And you went from 753's to Quad 11L? That's interesting - was this for space purposes or did your hearing change (not being funny either I should clarify!) and force the change?

I suppose my answer would be the usual one and it applies to all budget - is this based on a need to change through some dissatisfaction with the sound you hear, or change for the sake of "...wonder what happens if I was to change this..."?

That aside, the kit will handle better speakers easily - the Quad's are good (and apparently the originals you have beat the L2 version), but it depends on what change you want, how much you want to spend, yadder, yadder, yadder. Monitor Audio PL100s get a fine write up though - £1500 standmounters, the new Spendor range is pretty impressive by all accounts. Leema Xeros at £650, the new horn-tweetered Klipsch range...

In truth, there's a pile of great speakers both standmounters and floorstanders that might do the job, but if you like what you hear already...

 

[Audioholic]

If you enjoy listening to music through your system, I wouldn't think of upgrading. Reading forums and the press' rhetoric than it's easy to just think, if I spent just this much more could I improve these aspects of the sound. To be honest, you've got great equipment, and 'upgrade' costs can spiral when you're than told it's necessary to improve all aspects of your system to not have the equivalent in bandwidth terms of a bottleneck on performance.

I don't know much about Quad's but IMO, as the record spot said, the speakers may not be allowing your system to reach it's full potential.

I recently decided to get Ruark Sabres. I think they're great standmounts, and at the ex demo price of £500 I'll be paying I think good value for money seeing that to my ears they sound clearly superior to Epos M12i (which are great standmounts in and of themselves!)

I have not listened to floor standers though, because I needed a speaker that suits being close to walls - where most 'standers don't perform optimally, needing more space to breathe - so can't recommend you there.

 

[John Duncan]

Yup I think you could usefully upgrade your speakers, but not much else..........

 

[IJ]

Thanks for the very useful comments. Life has been pretty busy these past years and little time to take note of any changes, other than just enjoy the music.
My 753's were the very original, in fact I still have them lying on the floor in the spare room. I decided to change them for several reasons, firstly I found listening to them over time to be rather tiring, mainly I remember there being a harsh edge to the tweeters. In addition I had problems with several tweeter failures and it was not so easy to get replacements where I live, or to solder new ones back. When my daughter was very young, her and her friend managed to crush in all the dust covers of all the drive units, Mission said it won't affect the sound quality, but from a visual standpoint, their days were numbered.

I must say, when I replaced the 753's with the Quads, I was really taken back by, what I felt was a big improvement in sound(or maybe just different). Maybe over time, I could now do with a big more low end.

The Theta has some very occasional issues with the transport mechanism, there is a plastic cog that wears out(teeth break)and the in/out mechanism for the disc stops working. I think I have had this replaced twice since new and I no longer know if I will be able to get replacements here in the future.

If I turn the volume knob on the exposure pre-amp it is quite noisy, in terms of noise through the speakers, this seems to improve if I turn the know back and forth many times before I use it.

So overall, there are a few issues that might occur in the future with the current equipment and not having listened to a system that is more up to date I was wondering if things had really moved on

 

[John Duncan]

Can't comment on the future-proofness of the transport parts, but you'd be looking at something like the Cyrus 6SE to get (it's claimed) pretty much the best transport mech you can get hold of. Your DAC should still hold its own, though you'd probably find that an equivalent quality one (sonically) would be cheaper nowadays. For example, Beresford, Cambrdge, Bel Canto, Benchmark, yadda yadda. Some of these have balanced outputs so you could take advantage of that.

As for the noisy pot on the Exposure, could almost certainly be sorted by removal of the top cover (with utmost care) and a scoosh (technical term) of switch cleaner from Maplins. Worst came to worst, a new, top quality pot like an ALPS, could be had and fitted for relative buttons.

When all's said and done though, it's probably worth taking your existing kit to a dealer and trying out some options and see if any feel like good value to you - I'd expect that if that were the case, you'd start with the speakers, then the transport, then the DAC, then the amps. But you might find you have to spend biiiig bucks.....

Course, you can always replace your CD player with a PC playing lossless files through an Airport Express

 

[IJ]

Spent some time in front of the hifi these past weeks.

I have switched between the Quads 11L's and the 753's, both have strong points. The 753's immediately gave me a much more realistic soundstage or image(if that's how you describe it) Bass was better, but not by as much as their size would suggest.

Switching back to back between the 2, the 753's did seem to have the edge, but after several weeks listening to them, it was no problem to switch back to the Quads, where some CD's sound better.

With both speakers some tracks just sounded awful, for example the first track on the latest Killers CD, very harsh sounding.

Overall, I preferred the Quads, but these need a bit of volume to sound at their best.

I have a sound processor wired into the system for movies, but this just does not seem to work well with my HiFi providing the left and right front volume, so I will get a separate movie system and free up my hifi.

The 753's are past their best and looking at one of the tweeters on borrowed time. The Quads will take care of the movies, so it's time to think about new speakers.

My living room, is approx 400-500sqft, marble floors(don't laugh, its an apartment and they all come like that here)ceilings around 11ft and I have to share the apartment with my family and have to be considerate of neighbours(well some)

I need a speaker, that's what I would say is very natural sounding, not bright, tight bass(not tiring) and I want the great sound experience without having to use high volumes. I listen to many types of music.

I can use floorstanders or stand mount, position can be anywhere from 15cm to 60cm from a back wall. Price from £600-£1500, although prefer the £600-£1000 band.

Reviews and forums suggestions include RS6, ProAC 110/1140, PMC's Spendor A5 etc

I think it will be impossible to audition with my own amp/CD setup and will only be able to listen to what a shop has set up.

So where to start and what speaker suggestions would you think fit the bill?

 

[Anonymous]

I'd say secondhand Sonus Faber if you can find them.

 

[IJ]

Ok, so not many suggestions there to go an listen to.
My car has a middle option hifi from the manufacturer, yet I can enjoy the music at all times and listen to it for hours on end without it getting tiring. So trying to understand what was going on, the car has more bass and is less forward, in fact more relaxing.
Yesterday, I took my Kef 30B subwoofer(about as old as the rest), disconnected it from the cinema system and plugged it into the pre-amp.
First listening was indeed promising as it added something which my previous speakers were obviously not giving. The overall sound did become more relaxing.
Early days, but it may save me a packet on new speakers.
The Kef has volume and frequency controls, is there any specific way to adjust these or is it just a question of playing, listening and tweaking?

 

[Anonymous]

just read this. I'd suggest the pro-ac tablette 8 reference signatures - I love them.

not sure if the stuido 110's better them or not.

Regarding the sub i think its just listening and tweaking. Andrew did post a brief guide somewhere (in home cinema i think). I believe it went:

For crossover:
reverse stereo speakers phase.
play (bassy) music
adjust sub crossover so there is minimum bass.
Put speakers back right way round.

for volume/level:
Play (bassy) music
adjust level till its just too much/starting to dominate
turn back down a tad.

 

[IJ]

So a few weeks on and the combination of the Quad 11L's and the subwoofer really made a significant difference to the listening experience of the system, however it was not quite what I was looking for as the bass did not extend lower, just helped to fill in a little.

Passing a shop a week ago I saw a room full of some rather exotic speakers such as Vivid and Usher. A quick listen and two things came to mind, I can't afford Vivid speakers however nice they look and sound, but the Usher speakers really sounded good for the price. The Quads were not disgraced, but their limited bass was clearly evident.

A few days later, unplugging the Exposure pre and power amp, (removing the dust) and visiting the shop, I spend several hours auditioning several Usher speakers.

Auditioning between the Be-718 Mini Dancer and the new floor standing dancer Mini 2, it was clear that the Be-718 had a sound that I was looking for. Good bass smooth, with a sound that never got tiring. Of course the larger Mini 2's with double bass drivers had more bass, looked fantastic, sounded fantastic, but at double the price did not really give double the sound!

For the Be-718's the press suggests low sensitivity and best with powerful amps, but the Exposure combo, had no issue to drive these speakers.

Spendor's A5, A6, PMC's and Pro-Ac's were on my list to audition, but having auditioned the Be-718's I had neither the time nor inclination to proceed further.

So I purchased the Be-718's.

They say that they need a min of 60 hours to run in, better with around 180 hours. Certainly the first 5 mins out of the box they sounded dreadful, but 6 hours in and already they are beginning to sing.

So thanks for the pointers to change the speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

It's always time to upgrade. However you have an excellent system, so maybe not!

My local store has some BE-718s - I'm very tempted by them also!

 

[Thaiman]

Mcintosh 2275 and ART Emotion Signature, then you wouldn't have to worry about upgrade again forever....I still got mine

 

[Gerrardasnails]

"With both speakers some tracks just sounded awful, for example the first track on the latest Killers CD, very harsh sounding."

I'm a big 'Killers' fan but their new album is awful.

 

[IJ]

Need some direction again.

I think my Theta Data basic 2 transport may be coming to the end of its life. More and more I have a problem loading CD's, the display reads ERROR and I have to load and reload many times to get the disc to play. Sometimes discs are almost impossible to load. Other times when I load the disc it shows the tracks and total time and then shows ERROR after pressing play. In addition, using the remote it can't change tracks up very well, either not changing track at all or the ERROR message come up. It's beginning to bug me.

Sort of sounds a little like the long thread on the Cyrus CD players.

Looking into the internet about this transport suggests that the laser is on the way out and from the Theta website, no spares are available. Well I guess 15 years and 1000's of hours of endless music, I guess I got my monies worth, just disappointed that with such external build quality it cant go on for ever.

So my next step for audition would be:

1) A CD transport £600-£1000 to partner the Wadia 12 DAC?

2) A CD player in the £800-£1400 range?

3) A cheap CD player and partner with the Wadia 12

Any suggestion what to audition for these 3 options?

Considering the Wadia 12 is around 15 years old as well, is option 2 likely to be the best sounding and value?

 

[Anonymous]

You've tried a CD lens cleaner ? I have one and say running for a minute or so, well when I got my CD player out of storage it took a half hour of cleaning! (maybe the laser mech slider just needed to warm up) but it did work.

Is yours top-loading -- try cleaning, also compressed air may get rid of gremlins - fingers crossed.

If all fails, why not go the media streaming route ?

 

[IJ]

No, never used a lens cleaner, to be honest, never knew they existed. Its not a top loader, transport is based on the discontinued Phillips CDM9 pro i believe.

Worth a try.

As for streaming route, sounds a bit too high tech for me. I prefer to browse in a CD shop, buy what i want and play it. I don't think i am the person to search through files and files of stuff on a computer. Tried once downloading and loading music for my daughters walkman, it was all a bit too much for me.

 

[Anonymous]

IJ:

No, never used a lens cleaner, to be honest, never knew they existed. Its not a top loader, transport is based on the discontinued Phillips CDM9 pro i believe.

Worth a try.

As for streaming route, sounds a bit too high tech for me. I prefer to browse in a CD shop, buy what i want and play it. I don't think i am the person to search through files and files of stuff on a computer. Tried once downloading and loading music for my daughters walkman, it was all a bit too much for me.
Definitely try the CD Lens cleaner. They are a CD with a couple of brushes on the playing side. You put a drop of the supplied Isopropyl alcohol on each brush and follow the instructions - takes about 2 minutes - and aswell as my CD player has also worked on my DVD player. WHS, your record store, Curry's you name it should have one for about 10 quid or so.

 

[Anonymous]

Replacement head here.

 

[IJ]

Thanks for that. Any idea what this sentence means?

CDM 9/44 to repair CDM 9 Pro => If CDM9-pro can't read CD , you can pick up head from CDM9

Is the issue i am having likely to be solved by this unit?

Is it so simple

 

[Anonymous]

If the laser is going, as you say, then a new head will fix the problem. What that sentence implies is that you can use the CDM9 head in the CDM pro, but, if you want to confirm that, email the supplier.

Before doing anything I'd clean the head as suggested, then, if that doesn't improve things, check lubrication on the transport mechanism. There's plenty of information on the internet about how to do that.

The other thing to do before going ahead and ordering a new head is to take the unit to a service centre and ask them what the problem is. ÿMight cost, but will save you money in the long term.

 

[Trefor Patten]

Certainly look at a computer based system, My strong suggestion would be to go down the Mac route rather than PC - life is just so much easier. When it comes to speakers you really should audition the Eclipse TD 712, or indeed any of their range. The imaging and timing is just incredible.

 

[IJ]

I will ask around here as i dont think there is a Theta dealer or any service center that i know of here who will help.

For the cost of a Mac and the bits i may need, i might as well buy a decent CD player. i just cant see my self searching for music tracks on a computer. I spend most of my working day on one and in the evening, i just want to get away from it.

I guess i also need to spend some time and listen to say the Cyrus 6 or 8SE vs the Cyrus transport with my DAC to really see if HIFI has made any progression these past 15 years.

For speakers i just purchased the Usher Be-718's

 

[Anonymous]

Some hifi shops have service facilities. The drive is a well known drive, so if they don't know the player they should still be able to say.

Try the Rega cd players, too. ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

Tarquinh:Replacement head here.

Also try Here

A quick clean of the swing arm may fix it also.