Is it all Hype ?

[keeper of the quays]

It would be nice if cost didnt come into it..whereas i would agree reasonable priced cables sound fine..cheap cables sound bad..certainly on higher end kit..more information is revealed..and the limitations of cables are heard? That test said the opposite..are all the cable reviews on what hifi wrong? They say better the kit..need cables of the same quality! I also think better cables make cheaper hifi sound better too...but no one here uses cheap interconnects..

 

[keeper of the quays]

When i posted my last comment i didnt see yours..cool..you use cheap interconnects..whats your kit?

 

[lindsayt]

...Looking and reviewing a new amp and surprised to read that many people believe there is no difference in quality from a £100 amp to a £1000 amp...

That depends entirely on what specific £100 amp we are talking about and what particular £1000 amp.

The £100 amp might sound better, or worse, or equally good but different, or close enough to sounding the same to not worry about the differences. It all depends...

 

[lindsayt]

Keeper: my main system at the moment is: Studer A807 or EMT 950 or Denon DN-C630 into Lightspeed LDR into Korneff clone 45 SET into EV Patrician 800's.

And then there's my AV system, and my upstairs system and my kitchen system.

 

[tonky]

Without a doubt, there would be an easily discernible difference between a Stradivarius and a much cheaper violin. The same with other acoustic instruments too. Classical guitars etc. Different types of wood, the bracing, When these instruments are heard live - easy to hear a difference. And crucially a talented player.

tonky

And yet again a thread gets effectively sidetracked. Read the origial post folks before adding your self-centred rubbish.

Say it as it is why don't you - keeper of the thread tracker - somebody used cheaper vs expensive violins as an analogy regarding amplifiers. I didn't think it was a good analogy for the reasons I gave. Why so serious - it's a thread - varied opinions - different analogies. Problem?

tonky

 

[abacus]

Behringer is big in the pro audio world so it is hardly surprising that it is a match for a Hi Fi product, plus the price you pay for a pro audio product is a fraction of the price of a Hi Fi product for the same quality. (They tend to look a bit ugly and require more setting up though)

Bill

 

[keeper of the quays]

Blimey..can you tell me where i can get this £3.50 interconnect? As i will purchase one..ill then use it to connect my power amp to my pre amp..in fact ill get two..ill put the other one between cd player and pre amp..ill then listen..hopefully without prejudice! Ill report back my findings...

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Clicky

interesting second video did not work but see your point

 

[alwaysbeblue1]

I do think there is a lot of bias while listening to Hi Fi.

You buy a new set of speakers and you listen more intently, maybe believing you are hearing more information or a better bass ?

I do find it slightly disturbing that the test is in favour slightly towards the cheaper set up... if the difference was a few hundred then fair enough, but at this price gap, even your grandmother should hear a difference

 

[Vladimir]

Clicky

 

[Vladimir]

The article in full.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

The thing is yes an amp is an amp but when your paying a £1000 on an amp your getting better bulld quality and maybe better technology bigger power supply to handle bass better and some amps have there own companies sounds like marantz as its own unique sound and I am not saying there anything wrong in budget there some good budget amps out there that punch above there weight and pair that with a good set of speakers then it should sound good but cables are good to a point but I will never use out of the box cheap crap I think the budget amps some of them have a bit more distortion on the bass channel but when you start spending a £1000 it's more bass is controlled better but in order to get both right it has to be a good partnerships with the speakers to get the most out of the amp and then there issues with speakers were some amps will not drive a speaker right were it could damage the speakers by using a underpowered amp . I just spent a £915 on a abrahamsen amp and I can tell you that sounds different then say a marantz pm6005 i still have the pm6005 a very good budget amp too

 

[Blacksabbath25]

The article in full.

thanks it's the same argument with violins too modern won that test but amazed that professional musicians could not tell the difference which was old

 

[Thompsonuxb]

You know what?

I'd bet if someone secretly swapped your cables, interconnects or speaker or your amp without your knowledge....

I'd bet alot of you would notice. You'd not say anything straight away though.

I'd bet you'd not be able to put your finger on it but within one good listening session you'd feel something was not quite right.

I bet.......

 

[Vladimir]

IIRC there was a reward of $10,000 for telling apart amps in a DBT? Similar to the JREF $1M prize for those that can tell cables apart in a DBT.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Harder to tell apart than speakers.

Lots of people expect the difference to jump out at them and hit them on the nose.

To an untrained ear cheaper weaker amps sound more basey also.

I used to find it very difficult to hear a difference between amps and was confused when i switched but lately i can hear the difference easier as i am aware of what to listen for.
I am basing this on amps i have got to know the sound type on and not 2 seperate amps i do not know in a blind test.

 

[Ajani]

So,,I have a decent set up... and I belive strongly that my speakers have improved my sound considerably.

Looking and reviewing a new amp and surprised to read that many people believe there is no difference in quality from a £100 amp to a £1000 amp

Do you belive this and if you don't, do you think you could tell the difference in a blind test ?

The problem is that most audiophiles don't understand the science. So a lot of outright nonsense is said on both sides of the debate.

The only time you should expect amps to sound the same is if they measure the same and their volume is level matched. If any of those conditions are not met (which is almost always the case with typical amp comparisons that we do) then chances are that you will hear real differences.

Some persons assume that all amps measure the same, so they say things like "there is no difference between a $100 and a $1000 amp". The problem being that all amps DO NOT measure the same.

Then someone else will say "I compared X amp it was a night and day difference from Y amp, so all this science is nonsense and the scientists are deaf". Problem is that they neither ascertained whether the 2 amps they were comparing measured the same, nor did they properly level match (you can't level match by ear).

And all of that is without even discussing bias, which is another issue entirely.

The point being, that amps do sound different. Does that mean you have to spend $$$$$ on a traditional HiFi amp? Not at all. But you can't just pick any cheap trash and expect it to sound glorious. You need to do some research first.

 

[keeper of the quays]

So,,I have a decent set up... and I belive strongly that my speakers have improved my sound considerably.

Looking and reviewing a new amp and surprised to read that many people believe there is no difference in quality from a £100 amp to a £1000 amp

Do you belive this and if you don't, do you think you could tell the difference in a blind test ?

The problem is that most audiophiles don't understand the science. So a lot of outright nonsense is said on both sides of the debate.

The only time you should expect amps to sound the same is if they measure the same and their volume is level matched. If any of those conditions are not met (which is almost always the case with typical amp comparisons that we do) then chances are that you will hear real differences.?

Some persons assume that all amps measure the same, so they say things like "there is no difference between a $100 and a $1000 amp". The problem being that all amps DO NOT measure the same.

Then someone else will say "I compared X amp it was a night and day difference from Y amp, so all this science is nonsense and the scientists are deaf". Problem is that they neither ascertained whether the 2 amps they were comparing measured the same, nor did they properly level match (you can't level match by ear).?

And all of that is without even discussing bias, which is another issue entirely.

?

The point being, that amps do sound different. Does that mean you have to spend $$$$$ on a traditional HiFi amp? Not at all. But you can't just pick any cheap trash and expect it to sound glorious. You need to do some research first.?

?

 

best measurement are your ears...

 

[woodster]

So,,I have a decent set up... and I belive strongly that my speakers have improved my sound considerably.

Looking and reviewing a new amp and surprised to read that many people believe there is no difference in quality from a £100 amp to a £1000 amp

Do you belive this and if you don't, do you think you could tell the difference in a blind test ?

Just my view here. I very recently upgraded my Roksan L111 for a Hegel H160. I ran them side by side for about 4 hours, swapping listening mediums, cd, lp and streaming (Hi and low res), and swapping amps in between. Now allowing for the debateable "Running In" time, overall I was quite sure there was a very great improvement in the Hegel's quality, spatially and in musicality compared to the still good Roksan.

To allow for clouded judgement and a little impartiality, I invited my lady partner in for a blind test, I have to say she loves all forms of music and I treated her to some favourites and some slight dislikes and she supported my view of the Hegel reigning supreme over the Roksan.

Investment vindicated, aside from that, it sounds fantastic. Anyone fancy homing a well loved Roksan?

 

[Andrewjvt]

So,,I have a decent set up... and I belive strongly that my speakers have improved my sound considerably.

Looking and reviewing a new amp and surprised to read that many people believe there is no difference in quality from a £100 amp to a £1000 amp

Do you belive this and if you don't, do you think you could tell the difference in a blind test ?

Just my view here. I very recently upgraded my Roksan L111 for a Hegel H160. I ran them side by side for about 4 hours, swapping listening mediums, cd, lp and streaming (Hi and low res), and swapping amps in between. Now allowing for the debateable "Running In" time, overall I was quite sure there was a very great improvement in the Hegel's quality, spatially and in musicality compared to the still good Roksan.

To allow for clouded judgement and a little impartiality, I invited my lady partner in for a blind test, I have to say she loves all forms of music and I treated her to some favourites and some slight dislikes and she supported my view of the Hegel reigning supreme over the Roksan.

Investment vindicated, aside from that, it sounds fantastic. Anyone fancy homing a well loved Roksan?

The upgrade from a roksan k2 to an hegel.h160 was very easy to hear the difference and the wife also could hear it without me even asking her. And its not volume related at all as you need to swing the volume up much more on the hegel but its like you can hear everything all of a sudden and not all mashed together in a blur .The change from h160 - h360 was much more subtle though.

 

[woodster]

So,,I have a decent set up... and I belive strongly that my speakers have improved my sound considerably.

Looking and reviewing a new amp and surprised to read that many people believe there is no difference in quality from a £100 amp to a £1000 amp

Do you belive this and if you don't, do you think you could tell the difference in a blind test ?

Just my view here. I very recently upgraded my Roksan L111 for a Hegel H160. I ran them side by side for about 4 hours, swapping listening mediums, cd, lp and streaming (Hi and low res), and swapping amps in between. Now allowing for the debateable "Running In" time, overall I was quite sure there was a very great improvement in the Hegel's quality, spatially and in musicality compared to the still good Roksan.

To allow for clouded judgement and a little impartiality, I invited my lady partner in for a blind test, I have to say she loves all forms of music and I treated her to some favourites and some slight dislikes and she supported my view of the Hegel reigning supreme over the Roksan.

Investment vindicated, aside from that, it sounds fantastic. Anyone fancy homing a well loved Roksan?

The upgrade from a roksan k2 to an hegel.h160 was very easy to hear the difference and the wife also could hear it without me even asking her. And its not volume related at all as you need to swing the volume up much more on the hegel but its like you can hear everything all of a sudden and not all mashed together in a blur .The change from h160 - h360 was much more subtle though.

The point I am making here is that the difference can be discernible across all levels of financial outlay and brand switching. In your case its the differnce in the same brand and £1k, subtle indeed in this case.

 

[lindsayt]

Blimey..can you tell me where i can get this £3.50 interconnect? As i will purchase one..ill then use it to connect my power amp to my pre amp..in fact ill get two..ill put the other one between cd player and pre amp..ill then listen..hopefully without prejudice! Ill report back my findings...

Ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=gold+rca+cable&_sop=2&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=gold+rca+cable&_sacat=0

I go for the gold plated jobbies. And generally try to keep my lengths short for RCA's. Aiming for 0.5 metres. For balanced XLR's I don't fuss over length.

My free interconnects are 0.5 metre versions of this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Puresonic-RCA-Phono-Cable-5-Metre-/291674072253?hash=item43e92124bd:g:2usAAOSwnLdWrg6r

I got them free with an amplifier I bought 12 years ago. At the time they retailed for about £18 new.

It'll be interesting to see what results you get.

I totally agree with your point about ears being more important than measurements.

You may get different results to me with your cable experiments in your system with your test tracks and your ears.

 

[MajorFubar]

IIRC there was a reward of $10,000 for telling apart amps in a DBT?

If we ignore the fact that relatively speaking a $10,000 wager is a very small amount if the better is so absolutely sure we would fail, I assume it has an asterisk after it with some pretty hefty terms and conditions. Otherwise I'm going out to find the cheapest naffest amp I can find, then proving beyond all doubt it sounds different to my modded C2+PSX, and claiming my $10k

 

[tonky]

It would have to be 2 amps of my choosing. Or maybe they could let us choose from a list? I'd be on a winner.

Somewhere on this thread someone mentioned that a coathanger had been used as an interconnect and this wasn't noticed in a "blind" test.

I hope it wouldn't be too facetious of me to mention the possibility of a "different coathangers as interconnects " test - double blind of course. (apologies for thread hijacking)

tonky

 

[Al ears]

Without a doubt, there would be an easily discernible difference between a Stradivarius and a much cheaper violin. The same with other acoustic instruments too. Classical guitars etc. Different types of wood, the bracing, When these instruments are heard live - easy to hear a difference. And crucially a talented player.

tonky

And yet again a thread gets effectively sidetracked. Read the origial post folks before adding your self-centred rubbish.

Say it as it is why don't you - keeper of the thread tracker - somebody used cheaper vs expensive violins as an analogy regarding amplifiers. I didn't think it was a good analogy for the reasons I gave. Why so serious - it's a thread - varied opinions - different analogies. Problem?

tonky

It's just common courtesy really, of you want to discuss cables rather than amplifiers then start a new post rather than hijack someone else's thread.

Simpless...