Interesting demo of some speakers

ellisdj

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I wanted to say thanks and give a shout out to 2 dealers where I had demos on Friday and Saturday.

On Friday I went to Criterion Audio I Cambridge and had demo's of Kef Reference 1 and Sonus Faber Olympica 2.

Then Saturday I went to a Kef and Meridian event at the Audio Barn in Harlow. Nice guy the owner of that hifi store with a big selection of brands.

Actually both had big selections Inc brands from the states like audio note yg acoustic and kabala cables just for example.

I must say I have been very impressed with the Kef reference speakers.
Neither demo has been perfect or the quality I am used to but the way the sound gets out of the Kef reference speakers is pretty special. They have got me thinking about them but will be demoing more speakers for sure.
 
ellisdj said:
I wanted to say thanks and give a shout out to 2 dealers where I had demos on Friday and Saturday.

On Friday I went to Criterion Audio I Cambridge and had demo's of Kef Reference 1 and Sonus Faber Olympica 2.

Then Saturday I went to a Kef and Meridian event at the Audio Barn in Harlow. Nice guy the owner of that hifi store with a big selection of brands.

Actually both had big selections Inc brands from the states like audio note yg acoustic and kabala cables just for example.

I must say I have been very impressed with the Kef reference speakers. Neither demo has been perfect or the quality I am used to but the way the sound gets out of the Kef reference speakers is pretty special. They have got me thinking about them but will be demoing more speakers for sure.

And there's me thinking Audionote were British........
 
I heard the Ref 1 on Hegel's stand at Bristol this year, and was amazed at how huge they sounded. Would have thought they were floorstanders if they'd been hidden from view. Very impressive.

I imagine I would fall for the Olympicas as I've never disliked a Sonus faber, and some are simply fabulous. Would be interested in how they compared...
 

ellisdj

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I thought Audionote was american, no harm done - sorry either way they had non english typical brands in like naim, rega, arcam, chord co. etc which is great to have other options outside the norm

I cant remeber the name of the pre and power on the Friday but it was a reference system for the dealer - the power amp was a huge class a beast with a dedicated 32amp power feed to it - the size of a small suitcase, Linn streamer - mid range.

Then on the Saturday it was the Meridian Ultra Dac being used as a pre also with 2 G57 I think power amps in bridged mono.

I dont think this setup did the speakers justice despite the cost - I think the amps were not up to tthe job which is a concern for me actually if mine would be. That was on Ref 3

Both demos werent perfect but did demonstrate some fantastic traits I think of the speakers - such a crisp, layered presentation with real good depth on the Friday. I thought the 1's imaged far crisper but had a much better amp driving them and more space behind them. The 3's however created a more convincing scale of presentation but didnt image as far back behind them. However they was toed in a little more I think to fill in the sound a bit more at the expense of thatt imaging, but I didnt move them so I dont know for sure.

It was a leaner presentation than I how I like on both demos, that is a bit of a concern but I would home demo before spending that kind of cheddar. I heav heard that leaness a lot with hifi - I dotn get that at all at home - to me that is the difference between hearing proper music compared to hearing hifi or anything that can be called hifi
 

ellisdj

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ellisdj

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Sorry forgot to do the comparison

The Kef were on first - I liked the clarity, bass was ok - considering the size of the room and how far from a boundary they are it was decent

But it was quite lean in presentation.

I listened for about 30 minutes that was enough, I wasnt really sold.

So then the Olympicas went in - obviously it was a bassier sound with more scale and itt was a much richer sound.

Initially I thought they trumped the Kefs because they were imaging similar to the Kefs with a richer fuller presentation which in my eyes is much more authentic - nothing in real life sounds lean to me - except bad hifi.

I actually thought they sounded a lot like my MA Platinums for good then after a while for the bad, not really the bad but after a bit I just missed the crispness of the Kef presentation so I got them to put the Kefs back in for about another 30 minutes and the presentation of the last song really sold them to me - the way it was layered.

I wondered if the faults of both speakers I could fix at home by different means but until you try you dont know.

I am more inclined to go with the leaner crisper presentation and hope that all the work I have done to get a full sound at home would then balance lovely.
 

ellisdj

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Hi David - not at all - there are no demo rooms like my room - home demo is a must for me really

I will be arranging that as part of the process - however I need to get the finances in order as well because I know once I hear it at home and if its as good as I think it will be living without that sound will be painful :)

But if I was taking a blind punt based on the demo's the weekend I would probably take a punt on the Ref 3's and hope they work in the much smaller space I have in terms of width - and with the room treatment I have put in. Not saying that is what I am doing - cant say it hasnt crossed my mind, but not in a position to do that with the cost of them.

I do really like the Kent Engineering and Foundary black and gold finish but that is extra on top of already expensive :)

Also there are other speakers at that price to hear first before doing anything
 

ellisdj

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I just remembered the pre amp and power amp was Boulder - which are an American co.

Think they were suggested to accompany the YG Acoustics speaker range same as the Kaballa speaker cables.

I will stick with XLO for cables thanks - Best in the World.
 

Frank Harvey

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I only ask as you said the pre/power was 'reference' for the dealer - never really worth trying speakers on crazy money pre/powers if you're using £5ks worth of amplification! The only benefit is to find out what the speaker is ultimately capable of.
 

ellisdj

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Hi David, I agree the presentation was less stellar from lesser quality amps like the Meridian G series on the Saturday demo.

I have had a variation of those amps previously and when I went over to a Bryston equivalent there was a huge improvement in SQ .

However I dont know if the Bryston I own is good enough to do them justice - Kef were the demoing the Ref range with Arcam Electronics and power amps by the looks of some you tube videos I have found.

I would have thought my Bryston is at least their equal and factoring in a lot of the bass will be done here with subwoofers so a large load on the amp is relieved but yes that is a factor to consider you are right.
 

Frank Harvey

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ellisdj said:
I would have thought my Bryston is at least their equal and factoring in a lot of the bass will be done here with subwoofers so a large load on the amp is relieved but yes that is a factor to consider you are right.
I don't know your specific models, but I agree.
 

CnoEvil

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Though the New Refs are more forgiving of Amp character than the older Refs, they are no less dependent on the quality of the preceding components, to here them at their best.

Despite sounding a little smoother, they are considerably more revealing...which as you say, allows you to hear right into a recording.

IME. They can sound full or lean, depending on how they are driven....and I think this is a speaker that you will only fully realise just how good it is, after you have lived with it for a while and then go back to something lesser.

It will be a more neutral speaker than the SFs and should sound very impressive with your Bryston. The best I have heard them sound has always been with a Linn ADS or KDS as a Source. I didn't enjoy them so much when used with an Arcam CD/Streamer.
 

ellisdj

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I have only heard a handful of speakers that layered the sound like what I heard on Friday.
The last one was epsilon at about £25k on the back of about 100k worth of kit with serious valve mono blocks powering them.

I think that boulder class a amp is a stunner I am guessing valve like sound clarity with true ss guts. I didn't even ask the price because if your asking you can't afford it :)

At this price other big players step in pmc fact and new mk plats, focal Sopra.

It's not just a case of buying anything it has to be part of a cinema system with a small centre speaker in terms of width to fit in the space I have.

I don't need a big centre speaker with the size of my room
 
ellisdj said:
I have only heard a handful of speakers that layered the sound like what I heard on Friday. The last one was epsilon at about £25k on the back of about 100k worth of kit with serious valve mono blocks powering them.

I think that boulder class a amp is a stunner I am guessing valve like sound clarity with true ss guts. I didn't even ask the price because if your asking you can't afford it :)

At this price other big players step in pmc fact and new mk plats, focal Sopra.

It's not just a case of buying anything it has to be part of a cinema system with a small centre speaker in terms of width to fit in the space I have.

I don't need a big centre speaker with the size of my room
Oh dear. Did you really say 'cinema system'? In that case, maybe the PMC twenty 23 5.1 package might be suitable, as it had a rave review in the magazine and seems to be their new reference. It's only about £8k. I'd be sticking to proper stereo, but it's your call, obviously.
 

ellisdj

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oooo hifi snobbery at its best right there

you have no idea - my cinema system makes a mockery of what most people call hifi, imo obviously but I have heard enough now to say that confidentally - including 2 high end hifi systems this weekend just gone

So dont judge a book by a cover you have not even seen
 
ellisdj said:
oooo hifi snobbery at its best right there

you have no idea - my cinema system makes a mockery of what most people call hifi, imo obviously but I have heard enough now to say that confidentally - including 2 high end hifi systems this weekend just gone

So dont judge a book by a cover you have not even seen
Honestly, it isnt snobbery at all. I just find them conflicting needs. A bit like trying to buy a convertible estate car! You've been auditioning serious stereo system, but few translate into decent cinema packages. But it sounds like a huge task to improve substantially on what you already have. Either way, I wish you all the best.
 

ellisdj

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I think I have proved that if you buy the right bits you can have a system that is excellent for both - I also find this is double rewarding because it doesnt matter if your listening to music or watching a film you are enjoying best part of your investment all the time.

Yes its bloody expensive to work on both to get them to a very high standard but its worth it.

My Preamp wont be the best sounding in the world - but neither is the rest of my kit - however its good enough and with the attention to detail I have paid to every facet of the room and system I personally thinkthat elevates the sound much more than spending vast sums of money on hifi boxes.

I have been to demo after demo and been generally dissapointed in how uncomplete the hifis on demo generally sound - normally some good bits and some terrible bits - quite often the bass is average to terrible.

One main benefit of using a high quality AV Preamp is easy stereo subwoofer integration and complete manual bass management. I know exactly what bass I am getting and have complete control over it

Most people with hifi only systems are constantly fighting the bass with room positioning to try and get something to sound "right" but I bet if you looked at it / measured it, I bet its far from right and yet there is no control for that. I couldnt live with sound like that.

Despite both demo systems I heard the weekend being better components than mine I couldnt live with either sound so that proves to me that choosing to go the route I have was not a mistake.
 

lindsayt

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ellisdj said:
...I have been to demo after demo and been generally dissapointed in how uncomplete the hifis on demo generally sound - normally some good bits and some terrible bits - quite often the bass is average to terrible...
I've found pretty much the same thing with the last few dealer demos I've been to.
 

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