Integrated Amplifier for Mordaunt-Short Mezzo 2

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Andrew Everard:Antman:Does it really matter?

If you like Cambridge Audio buy it, if you don't buy something else (somewhere else)!!!

Exactly. No one is forcing anyone to buy any particular product from any particular retailer, and one would like to hope consumers were capable of making decisions for themselves.

I don't think forced to buy Cambridge Audio or Mordaunt-Short is what's being suggested, it is more influenced, based on a biased opinion because of a conflict of interest
 
chamfer:I don't think forced to buy Cambridge Audio or Mordaunt-Short is what's being suggested, it is more influenced, based on a biased opinion because of a conflict of interest

And people are too dumb to work out what the term 'salesman' means?
 
Andrew Everard:

chamfer:Hey ultimately my ears will decide what i purchase, but it would be nice to have suggestions from others who have been down this route before or those who are considered to be a expert in the field, as to what i should be considering.

I'd go along with nickd2544's original suggestion.

Thank you i will give it a demo
 
Andrew's facts are right, Audio Partnership owns and controls the Cambridge Audio brand and Richer Sounds is a completely separate business that has exclusive distribution rights to sell Cambridge in the UK. Overseas we also have 50+ distributors who now make up the majority of our business so we are far from being an "own brand" or "Richer brand" that some occasionally call us. Maybe this could have been argued the case 10 years ago, but not now! AP has complete freedom to manage its business and develop products as it wishes, but of course we listen to our customers, including Richer Sounds, to help us decide the best products to make for their/our customers. Richer were keen on Dacmagic as they could see the potential in this, and many other countries agreed too, but when it came to our 840 range, this was developed specifically with major overseas markets in mind where the potential and hunger for bigger products is large.

Mordaunt-Short Ltd is a stand-alone business owned 50% by myself, but also enjoying Audio Partnership resources and is again sold all over the world and in Europe through Marantz who are our distribution partner. We work well with Marantz and they in turn with their many UK customers who include Richer Sounds.

Like pretty much every hi-fi/AV store in the UK Richer do incentivise their colleagues, but I should stress that much more can be earned on a sale by delivering great customer satisfaction, something Richer measure very well and in fact very fanatically. They do genuinely care about the customer at a high level in the business and this filters down. Having seen how this works I genuinely believe this does ensure that customers are not misled and sold the wrong product. They really do work hard at this and jump on any occasional instances that arise.

Also, let's be honest about this, as Andrew has already said, pretty much every hi-fi/AV store in the UK offers some kind of commission to their sales team/s, those that maybe didn't have now in the large part gone out of business because they couldn't survive without doing this to motivate their people. And pretty much every retailer and salesperson have their favourite products that they regularly and enthusiastically recommended.

That said, whilst Cambridge and Mordaunt-Short do both regularly come highly recommended at Richer they are far from the only brands they recommend, testified by the vast quantities of Marantz, Onkyo, NAD, Harman Kardon, Wharfedale, Tannoy, Kef etc., etc. that they sell. They also make money from selling them too (and their buyers regularly ask me why they can make as much from other brands - the answer is of course in their low Cambridge retail prices).

Of course, like any brand, it's my job to motivate Richer Sounds sales colleagues to promote my brand and we put a lot of effort into this of course in the form of training etc., helped by the reviews and awards we get in the magazines and online. Yes, Cambridge Audio products are exclusive to Richer Sounds in the UK and both we and they are proud of this. Richer are proud to recommend Cambridge because it's genuinely good value product that delivers high levels of value to their customers. We at Cambridge are proud to sell it through them as we are able to train their people up on the merits of the product and with their direct route to market they are also able to sell at highly competitive prices. The result here is a genuine win-win for the customer.

At the end of the day, people's music choice and the hi-fi components they feel give them the most enjoyable experience from their favourite music are a personal thing and that's why listening/auditioning is so important. Reviews are one thing but your own ears and tastes are another! Richer Sounds have over the last 2 years installed around 20 demo rooms to up their game on this and I encourage you to use them!

James Johnson-Flint CEO, Audio Partnership Plc / Cambridge Audio Ltd / Mordaunt Short Ltd

PS. I'd buy the 640A (or try and get one of the deals I have seen recently on 740A and 840A - don't take my word for it, just read other posts for comments about how serious those amps are)
 
Hi,

There is a reason that they said the cambridge amp, and that is tyhat they do match very well.

Who cares if they get a few more quid by saying go for that amp! The 640, 740 etc, match well with their speakers. Gerrardasnails is right. I have a creek amp with epos speakers, as they match very well. The 2 companies are right next to eachother building wise, but I could not give 2 hoots about this, as the synergy between the 2 products is very good.

I wish people would not get on their high horse about these things, we are all after a great sound from our hifi, and if you tried their suggestion (you really don't have to buy it after listening!), you might have found the sound did actually match very well.......
 
seduct10n:I have a creek amp with epos speakers, as they match very well. The 2 companies are right next to eachother building wise, but I could not give 2 hoots about this, as the synergy between the 2 products is very good.

Even closer than that: same owner/designer.
 
Yes I found that out when talking with Mike Creek about speaker cable to match the internal solid core cable they use in the epos speakers.

He was very helpful, as was Luke.
 
Today I listened along with a couple of friends to the, Mordaunt-Short Mezzo 2 setup with the following amps, Cambridge 540A & the Marantz pm6002.

We all agreed that despite having listened to the opinion of several salesman slagging off the Marantz pm6002 and praising the Cambridge as the top performer , that the marantz combination sounded the best.

The Cambridge 540A seemed to be holding something back, but as soon as we listened to the marantz it became clear exactly what the sound of the Cambridge was missing.

And my advice for anyone who finds themselves in a similar position, and don't take my word for it, or anyone else's including pushy sales people! go and listen with your own ears.

Simon
 
Cambridge Audio CEO:
Andrew's facts are right, Audio Partnership owns and controls the Cambridge Audio brand and Richer Sounds is a completely separate business that has exclusive distribution rights to sell Cambridge in the UK. Overseas we also have 50+ distributors who now make up the majority of our business so we are far from being an "own brand" or "Richer brand" that some occasionally call us. Maybe this could have been argued the case 10 years ago, but not now! AP has complete freedom to manage its business and develop products as it wishes,

Right, so is it totally untrue that Julian Richer owns 51 percent of Audio-Partnership?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Richer

If that is true then - by most people's definition - Julian Richer is the majority/controlling shareholder of Audio-Partnership.

Andrew Everard:No, Richer Sounds doesn't own a stake in
Cambridge Audio or Mordaunt-Short: both brands are owned by the Audio
Partnership, in which Richer Sounds owner Julian Richer does have a stake, but that's the only link. (My emphasis)

Yes I know Andrew already mentioned this, but 51 percent is more than a just a 'stake'.
 
Andrew Everard:
chebby:Right, so is it totally untrue that Julian Richer owns 51 percent of Audio-Partnership?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Richer

Over to you, James, but of course if it's on Wikipedia...

Which is why I started by asking rather than stating and use the word 'if'. (Your views regarding Wikipedia do not make it false either.)

I have no beef in whatever argument is going on here and have bought stuff from Richer Sounds (and ecouraged others to do so), but if Julian Richer has a controlling shareholding in Audio-Partnership then it is wrong to imply that Richer Sounds/Julian Richer /Audio-Partnership are somehow not connected (ie that they are "completely separate").

[Edit] I have just read a contribution from John Clayton (Operations director for Richer Sounds) where he states...

"....there is indeed a link between Richer Sounds and the Audio Partnership, Julian Richer being part owner of Audio Partnership."

This would seem to contradict James' earlier statement that... "Richer Sounds is a completely separate business"

John Clayton's statement that the two companies are linked (by part ownership) is easily googled.
 
Audio Partnership is registered at....

Units 3 4 Richer House, Hankey Place, London SE1 4BB

Cambridge Audio is registered at....

Gallery Court, Hankey Place, London SE1 4BB

Richer Sounds is registered at...

Richer House, Hankey Place, London SE1 4BB

(Information all freely available on these company's own websites.)

John Clayton (Operations Director for Richer Sounds) states the companies are linked due to Julian Richer's part ownership of Audio Partnership and the MD of Cambridge Audio states - on this forum - that the two businesses are completely seperate.

Wikipedia (allowing for the reliability or otherwise of it's info) shows Julian Richer's 'part ownership' of Audio-Partnership is 51 percent.

For two "completely seperate" businesses I would say they seem extraordinarily close.

Probably sheer coincidence
emotion-5.gif
 
Yes, yes, we know all that. There's no great secrecy going on here, and people really are making mountains out of molehills.

So, Chebby - if I read this correctly you're accusing Mr Johnson-Flint of lying in his earlier post. Just want to be clear about that one...
 
When the MD of a major UK hifi company publicly states that two businesses are in fact completely seperate entities it would be nice to have no doubts in the complete truth of that.

Otherwise what confidence can we have in other things that are stated here by senior mangement of businesses?
 
Andrew Everard:
Yes, yes, we know all that. There's no great secrecy going on here, and people really are making mountains out of molehills.

So, Chebby - if I read this correctly you're accusing Mr Johnson-Flint of lying in his earlier post. Just want to be clear about that one...

It would be good to have what he said clarified. Maybe he needs to speak to John Clayton of Richer Sounds. They are probably only a few rooms from each other.
 
There's no need to clarify. The facts are in his post.

Please do not accuse other posters of lying, as it is against house rules and could be actionable in law.

And by the way...

chebby:Which is why I started by asking rather than
stating and use the word 'if'. (Your views regarding Wikipedia do not
make it false either.

I didn't say anything about the fact the statement is on Wikipedia making it false. Please do not put words in my mouth...
 
Who cares?

CA make fantastic products and RS seems to do well too. Just what we need these days and others could do worse than looking at the partnership and learn.
 
Indeed: the partnership between manufacturer and distributor/retailer seems to work very well in this case, and of course the fact that a conventional distributor's margin is avoided means the CA products have a significant price advantage here in the UK, compared to the prices at which they sell in other markets.
 
Company information from Companies House would clarify if he is the majority shareholder. Therefore I would like to ask the CEO is this the case? secondly it is not an experience shared by very few, other brands are talked down and indeed customers are dissuaded from hearing other brands. Now of course that is brought about by the owner of the retailer having a direct involvement with investment in the products which his retail group is selling. The examples of other retailers doing the same thing, are clearly different, unless you can point out that the owner of sevenoaks also has stakes in the products which are being sold through the chain.

Also Andrew, when you typed Over to you, James, but of course if it's on Wikipedia......then that could lead someone to interpret that as you implying that it's false, mocking the idea of it being on Wikipedia. For the record I really like the CA 740 A and 840 A amps but the issue isn't about whether individuals think that CA are a good brand or not.
 
hi fi newbie:Also Andrew, when you typed Over to you, James, but of course if it's on Wikipedia......then that could lead someone to interpret that as you implying that it's false, mocking the idea of it being on Wikipedia.

I really have no control over what people choose to infer, or how they choose to interpret what I said. I implied nothing.
 
A limited company is a legal entity, separate from its sharehoders. Julian Richer is also a legal entity. A company is run by its board of directors (not by shareholders, although a total of 51% of shareholders can remove a director from the board). A company can run two separate businesses or trading division selling different things or even compete against each other. Many companies for example in the motor industry, are "associated" (for the purposes of our Companies Act) by virtue of some common ownership, for example, subsidiaries owned by one holding company, or indeed owned by one single person, and in a lot of cases, these separate companies are in the same "group". This is the tip of the iceberg in terms of possible corporate structures. Confused yet
emotion-1.gif
?

There is no doubt Richer Sounds and Audio Partnership will be seen as associated but how that influences the two different boards of directors in those companies is a matter of conjecture....
 
Thanks AKL, I couldn't have answered better myself on the material difference between shareholders and the Directors who run the business. Hifinewbie, yes, Julian Richer is 51% shareholder of Audio Partnership Plc., but that doesn't mean his buyers don't give me a hard time to give you guys product at the right price!

Chebby you sceptic, let's get you over to our offices for a tour so you can see just how independent we really are. If you like I'll even try and arrange you a tour of Richer Sounds while you are here who, yes, are located in the building next door, although as they really are a separate business I'll have to ask them nicely as I can't just walk in whenever I like ;-) . Our location is a historical thing (although I'll readily agree it's also handy to have a big customer so close for the reasons stated in my earlier post). Actually John Clayton is based in their Manchester offices so can't guarantee you'll get to meet him, but we can try and coincide your visit when he is down for one of their management meetings I guess.

Any other sceptics up for the tour too??!!
 
Ok i'm game. Thanks for the offer.

I am sure one of the admins here can do the 'necessary' regarding providing you and I with each other's private emails offline if that's Ok with you?

I am free for a week from next Saturday onwards.
 
Great! Unfortunately I'm out of the country that week but good week commencing 20th April if that suits you? Any others coming along too?? Rather than trouble our friends at WHF simply send me a message via our support centre http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/sts/ with your details.
 

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