incorrectly matched Ohms?

[estidog]

Ok I'm a total newbie round here, and a total newbie to hi-fi specifics in general.

I've had a set up for my vinyl player for 4 years now and am starting to get itchy to upgrade something - please feel free to comment on my system - I have no idea if one bit of kit is much better or worse than the rest. My hunch is i need a better amp? especially as I've started reading about matching ohm levels and i don't think mine are matched?)

Turntable: Technics SL-DD33 (seems good enough to me...) paid £35 second hand

Amp: Technics SU-X102 (8Ω to 16Ω) paid £20 second hand

speakers: Eltax Concept 400s (4Ω-8Ω) paid £180 i think new.

Am I right in thinking my amp isn't handling my speakers very well?

If anyone looks at this and thinks one bit of kit is not up to par with the rest then please say!

thanks!

 

[estidog]

Am I posting in the wrong forum or something? I know I'm new here but kinda wondering why my posts aren't attracting any comments? Are these dull questions?

 

[namefail]

As long as you are using the correct speaker outs on you amp (Main) as list in the manual I can't see you having an ohm issue. Whats making you itchy?

 

[Al ears]

Am I posting in the wrong forum or something? I know I'm new here but kinda wondering why my posts aren't attracting any comments? Are these dull questions?

That's because we are all in bed by 20:00hrs

At your sort of budget I would not worry yourself about ohm matching, leave that to those with lo-power valve amp setups.

If you are happy with your room / speaker setup then go and get a better amp. Just make sure it has a phono stage built in. You might also consider upgrading the cartridge fitted to your turntable.

 

[P00dl3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_matching describes the theory, sure it may not be operating in its sweet spot but all you will be losing/wasting is a little power.

 

[BigH]

To be honest I think you need to change all of it. First probably the amp. but what budget do you have?

 

[Al ears]

To be honest I think you need to change all of it. First probably the amp. but what budget do you have?

Ouch. I was trying to be kind, but agree.

 

[estidog]

Thanks folks for the comments - good to get a discussion going!

I'm feeling itchy because I had borrowed someone's good speaker cables (£6 a metre on Richer Sounds) and realised how much better it gives for the bass response, and so have started questioning my setup.

I'm thinking of getting a technics SU-V460 because of footprint size and power and it would match the Ohms of my speakers (around £130 buy it now on ebay - is this a good price?) , but am not really sure if it is proportionally much better than the amp i already have? Also because of room issues I would like to get a new amp that would be the same footprint size as the vinyl player so they can stack (although i've recently read this is bad?).

In terms of the cartridge - upgrading this sounds like it wouldn't be too expensive - could you recommend one? - Currently it has the original technics one on there and even though i bought a replacement unbranded p-mount stylus a few years ago, the original Technics stylus until recently sounded much better than the new one, even though it must have been 5+years old (and I play records a lot!).

So would people agree that investing in better speaker cables, a new amp, and new cartridge would be money spent in the right places?

p.s. often I feel like the rare times when I do crank the volume a little bit - it doesn't sound very clear with slight distrotion, but It's hard to tell if I'm imagining this!

 

[estidog]

To be honest I think you need to change all of it. First probably the amp. but what budget do you have?

I agree, i'm looking to invest in a good setup for the long term so happy to do this in stages and keep this as a project when I have the money to replace bits. Right now I could spend maybe £100-£150 on something. I'm into buying second hand btw - I'm only using the setup for vinyl - so I'm not too concerned with buying new.

 

[Vladimir]

Forget everything else for the time being. Focus all your financial efforts on getting good speakers.

 

[Al ears]

Probably not the way to go with this system.

Get the source then amp sorted first otherwise how are you going to know whether speakers are 'good' or not.

 

[Vladimir]

Probably not the way to go with this system.

Get the source then amp sorted first otherwise how are you going to know whether speakers are the ones for you or not.

:shame:

The Hi-Fi golden rule is you get the speakers first then get everything else to get them sound the best they can. The speakers are the biggest leap in sound quality forward than any other component you upgrade. They define most of the sound performance you get from your system.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

This is not another cable debate but all would (hopefully) agree that with an entry level system (as we all start with and many stick with) a cable change should make no difference. Try some basic cable first, it can always be used later, your old cable may have had a severe weakness or serious oxidation maybe. Others will recommend amps etc.

Is the cartridge decent? Alignment & weight/bias is crucial for vinyl at any budget before changing anything. If the vinyl source is poor then no money will improve elsewhere (imo).

 

[estidog]

The cartridge is a Technics P30 with a Technics P30s stylus on top. Can someone recommend a better cartridge to get if it would help the source sound better? I now have an unbranded stylus though as a replacement. Is the cartidge more important than the stylus?

my speaker cables were £4 a metre (4 years old - fine condition) but I really can tell the difference between these and the pair I borrowed off my friend, mainly just in that there's audibly more bass with his cables. I borowed his phono cables too going from vinyl to amp, which were twice the price of mine (£80 - mine were £40), but I couldn't tell that much difference, not as much as the speaker cable change anyway.

I need to buy an amp anyway for use in an art exhibition where the sound quality isn't important. So i figured I might as well use my current one foir that and buy a better one for home, rather than have two cheap amps at the end of the day.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Technics SU-V460 or perhaps a Nad 302?

 

[BigH]

The cartridge is a Technics P30 with a Technics P30s stylus on top. Can someone recommend a better cartridge to get if it would help the source sound better? I now have an unbranded stylus though as a replacement. Is the cartidge more important than the stylus?

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Technics SU-V460 or perhaps a Nad 302?

I don't know the SU-V460 but it looks better on paper than your current one. Anyone know if its better than a Pioneer A400, they were very well rated a few years ago.

As for your turntable do NOT stack it on top of your amp that will not be a good idea, best to buy a wall shelf for it if you can.

 

[estidog]

As for your turntable do NOT stack it on top of your amp that will not be a good idea, best to buy a wall shelf for it if you can.

Is it possible to stack a vinyl player on an amp if there are some sort of spacers in between to let heat dissipate?

 

[Vladimir]

The cartridge is a Technics P30 with a Technics P30s stylus on top. Can someone recommend a better cartridge to get if it would help the source sound better? I now have an unbranded stylus though as a replacement. Is the cartidge more important than the stylus?

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Technics SU-V460 or perhaps a Nad 302?

I don't know the SU-V460 but it looks better on paper than your current one. Anyone know if its better than a Pioneer A400, they were very well rated a few years ago.

As for your turntable do NOT stack it on top of your amp that will not be a good idea, best to buy a wall shelf for it if you can.

That Technics is no match for the Pioneer A400. Not even close.

 

[estidog]

I don't know the SU-V460 but it looks better on paper than your current one. Anyone know if its better than a Pioneer A400, they were very well rated a few years ago.

As for your turntable do NOT stack it on top of your amp that will not be a good idea, best to buy a wall shelf for it if you can.

That Technics is no match for the Pioneer A400. Not even close.

Thanks for the tips on the Pioneer - after a bit of researching it does seem like a highly regarded amp, but there's a lot of chatter about it having a weak phono stage, being a little on the thin sounding side and being very toppy. Is this a good amp to use solely with a vinyl player considering?

 

[Al ears]

Probably not the way to go with this system.

Get the source then amp sorted first otherwise how are you going to know whether speakers are the ones for you or not.

:shame:

The Hi-Fi golden rule is you get the speakers first then get everything else to get them sound the best they can. The speakers are the biggest leap in sound quality forward than any other component you upgrade. They define most of the sound performance you get from your system.

This is a complete phalasy. Garbage in / garbage out. You will never know how good the speakers are if you are feeding them rubbish. Agree they will make a big difference if carefully paired with room dynamics but this is meaningless if signal they are receiving is not optimal.

 

[TrevC]

Do you like the sound? If not change the speakers.

 

[Al ears]

The A400 was very good in its day. Can I ask how much you want to spend on a new amp?

 

[TrevC]

Probably not the way to go with this system.

Get the source then amp sorted first otherwise how are you going to know whether speakers are the ones for you or not.

:shame:

The Hi-Fi golden rule is you get the speakers first then get everything else to get them sound the best they can. The speakers are the biggest leap in sound quality forward than any other component you upgrade. They define most of the sound performance you get from your system.

This is a complete phalasy. Garbage in / garbage out. You will never know how good the speakers are if you are feeding them rubbish. Agree they will make a big difference if carefully paired with room dynamics but this is meaningless if signal they are receiving is not optimal.

Nope, it's perfectly correct. The differences in the sound quality of everything else is miniscule compared to the speakers. I also disagree about the Pioneer A400 being inherently better than a Technics. Like the very ordinary NAD 3020 it's got some sort of wierdly obsessive hifi mag following for some reason..

 

[Vladimir]

I don't know the SU-V460 but it looks better on paper than your current one. Anyone know if its better than a Pioneer A400, they were very well rated a few years ago.

As for your turntable do NOT stack it on top of your amp that will not be a good idea, best to buy a wall shelf for it if you can.

That Technics is no match for the Pioneer A400. Not even close.

Thanks for the tips on the Pioneer - after a bit of researching it does seem like a highly regarded amp, but there's a lot of chatter about it having a weak phono stage, being a little on the thin sounding side and being very toppy. Is this a good amp to use solely with a vinyl player considering?

The A400 (which I still own) is bright, musical and punchy. Its best partnered with boring, dark and flatt speakers (for example Mission). The MM phono is decent and the MC not so much.

The one you want is the Tom Evans official modded version, the A400 GTE.

 

[Garett]

I'd personally change the amp first and would be looking at something like the Marantz PM6010 OSE or a Rotel as they generally have decent phono stages. I picked up my Rotel RA-02 off gumtree for £80 so there are bargains to be had.

 

[ifor]

Amp, TT then Speakers gets my vote.