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JoelSim:Red Dwarf:
idc:The power cable that was supplied with the Rega Mira amp I found was the equal of the entry level Russ Andrews Yello power cable. That should be the standard that all manufacturers should aspire to. The other option is not to supply any cable at all, but that is like getting a toy at christmas and no batteries included.
Only the terminally loopy buy aftermarket mains leads. All they do is connect the mains. They don't affect the performance of the stuff they're connected to, how could they?
I too subscribe to the fact that all cables make a difference and not just to tonality.
Fact? Definitely not.
[EDITED BY MODS - HOUSE RULES]
idc:The power cable that was supplied with the Rega Mira amp I found was the equal of the entry level Russ Andrews Yello power cable. That should be the standard that all manufacturers should aspire to. The other option is not to supply any cable at all, but that is like getting a toy at christmas and no batteries included.
Only the terminally loopy buy aftermarket mains leads. All they do is connect the mains. They don't affect the performance of the stuff they're connected to, how could they?
I too subscribe to the fact that all cables make a difference and not just to tonality.
Fact? Definitely not.
[EDITED BY MODS - HOUSE RULES]
Heh
I have stirred up a big kettle of fish here ! Sorry guys. Strangely i like it and i find it fun to watch this thread develop !
Red Dwarf:JoelSim:Red Dwarf:
idc:The power cable that was supplied with the Rega Mira amp I found was the equal of the entry level Russ Andrews Yello power cable. That should be the standard that all manufacturers should aspire to. The other option is not to supply any cable at all, but that is like getting a toy at christmas and no batteries included.
Only the terminally loopy buy aftermarket mains leads. All they do is connect the mains. They don't affect the performance of the stuff they're connected to, how could they?
I too subscribe to the fact that all cables make a difference and not just to tonality.
Fact? Definitely not.
[EDITED BY MODS - HOUSE RULES]
This is my last post on this topic on this thread. Yes it is fact as I have heard it to differing degrees across a range of mains cables on my own system including:
- unbranded, shielded
- Russ Andrews
- Merlin
- Clearer Audio
- Nordost
And no I don't believe it's a chalk and cheese difference, and in my opinion should be used merely a refinement of a sound that you like. The Nordost in particular really made a stunning difference to the depth of the music and the detail within that depth. Further enhanced by the Clearer Audios, and I already had the Merlins and RA cables on the system previously. The latter are now on the DVD and tuner.
idc:The power cable that was supplied with the Rega Mira amp I found was the equal of the entry level Russ Andrews Yello power cable. That should be the standard that all manufacturers should aspire to. The other option is not to supply any cable at all, but that is like getting a toy at christmas and no batteries included.
Only the terminally loopy buy aftermarket mains leads. All they do is connect the mains. They don't affect the performance of the stuff they're connected to, how could they?
I too subscribe to the fact that all cables make a difference and not just to tonality.
Fact? Definitely not.
[EDITED BY MODS - HOUSE RULES]
This is my last post on this topic on this thread. Yes it is fact as I have heard it to differing degrees across a range of mains cables on my own system including:
- unbranded, shielded
- Russ Andrews
- Merlin
- Clearer Audio
- Nordost
And no I don't believe it's a chalk and cheese difference, and in my opinion should be used merely a refinement of a sound that you like. The Nordost in particular really made a stunning difference to the depth of the music and the detail within that depth. Further enhanced by the Clearer Audios, and I already had the Merlins and RA cables on the system previously. The latter are now on the DVD and tuner.
John Duncan
Well-known member
- Jan 8, 2008
- 2,034
- 30
- 19,720
Coincidentally, I have bought into Clearer Audio today (well at least one of their products). Can't comment just yet as it needs a couple of days apparently.
aliEnRIK:chebby:aliEnRIK:Red Dwarf:
Only the terminally loopy buy aftermarket mains leads. All they do is connect the mains, for Christ's sake. They don't affect the performance of the stuff they're connected to, how could they?
RESEARCH PAPERS
Probably commissioned as a result of this.
They are (And their reputation of course). But that doesnt alter the fact theyve 'measureably' proven their braided mains chords do have an impact on amps and even had a university professor analyse them in case anyone refutes their findings.
i've probably got the wrong end of the stick here, but don't all the graphs shown in mr. andrews research papers only show the effects outside the audible frequency range? this being the case, how relevant are they? seems to me, that if it's outside human hearing it really doesn't matter what his graphs show?
like i say, happy to be corrected.
Only the terminally loopy buy aftermarket mains leads. All they do is connect the mains, for Christ's sake. They don't affect the performance of the stuff they're connected to, how could they?
RESEARCH PAPERS
Probably commissioned as a result of this.
They are (And their reputation of course). But that doesnt alter the fact theyve 'measureably' proven their braided mains chords do have an impact on amps and even had a university professor analyse them in case anyone refutes their findings.
i've probably got the wrong end of the stick here, but don't all the graphs shown in mr. andrews research papers only show the effects outside the audible frequency range? this being the case, how relevant are they? seems to me, that if it's outside human hearing it really doesn't matter what his graphs show?
like i say, happy to be corrected.
There maybe a case for doubt over digital cables, but there's no doubt that analogue cables can either fine tune or make even massive differences to the way your system sounds.
If you can't tell the difference between the supplied interconnect and the Chord cable, then you've answered your own question, don't pay the extra. Personally, in days gone by I've made good use of analogue cables to tune my system to sound as I want it. For example I used to own a lot of Cyrus kit, I'd use a Cyrus interconnect from the CD player to the pre-amp and then Monster M1000 interconnects from the pre-amp to mono-blocks. The Cyrus interconnect allowed every detail from the the CD player to the pre-amp, the Monster M1000 added a bit of bass muscle to the power amps. Different analogue interconnects bring different sounds, I was amazed when I started experimenting how different they can make a system sound.
The worst by the way was Van Den Hul Thunderline, for a not particularly cheap cable, it was incapable of sending any detail!
If you can't tell the difference between the supplied interconnect and the Chord cable, then you've answered your own question, don't pay the extra. Personally, in days gone by I've made good use of analogue cables to tune my system to sound as I want it. For example I used to own a lot of Cyrus kit, I'd use a Cyrus interconnect from the CD player to the pre-amp and then Monster M1000 interconnects from the pre-amp to mono-blocks. The Cyrus interconnect allowed every detail from the the CD player to the pre-amp, the Monster M1000 added a bit of bass muscle to the power amps. Different analogue interconnects bring different sounds, I was amazed when I started experimenting how different they can make a system sound.
The worst by the way was Van Den Hul Thunderline, for a not particularly cheap cable, it was incapable of sending any detail!
sthomas048:Heh
I have stirred up a big kettle of fish here ! Sorry guys. Strangely i like it and i find it fun to watch this thread develop !
If you are lucky, that feeling will last a few months. After that, you wont enter such threads without getting tanked, taking some mind numbing pills and putting the paramedics on alert first.
On the other hand, you may become one of these people who is always experimenting with cables...but still, the song will remain the same...
Oh, cruel, cruel world!
Mind, i could just not read them. I guess its that stupid optimism that something worth reading might be said.
If you are lucky, that feeling will last a few months. After that, you wont enter such threads without getting tanked, taking some mind numbing pills and putting the paramedics on alert first.
On the other hand, you may become one of these people who is always experimenting with cables...but still, the song will remain the same...
Oh, cruel, cruel world!
Mind, i could just not read them. I guess its that stupid optimism that something worth reading might be said.
Craig M.:
i've probably got the wrong end of the stick here, but don't all the graphs shown in mr. andrews research papers only show the effects outside the audible frequency range? this being the case, how relevant are they? seems to me, that if it's outside human hearing it really doesn't matter what his graphs show?
like i say, happy to be corrected.
Theyre not measuring 'sound', theyre measuring frequency within a mains cable.
i've probably got the wrong end of the stick here, but don't all the graphs shown in mr. andrews research papers only show the effects outside the audible frequency range? this being the case, how relevant are they? seems to me, that if it's outside human hearing it really doesn't matter what his graphs show?
like i say, happy to be corrected.
Theyre not measuring 'sound', theyre measuring frequency within a mains cable.
chebby:
JohnDuncan:Has anybody ever read Stephen King's "The Dark Tower"?
I bought it for my wife. (Well, one of them*). She has a whole shelf of SK.
*Books, not wives.
I'm surprised one wife let you invest in that kit..........
How long should the shelf be? Is it lacquered finish as some think that makes it too slippy? What kind of wood is best etc. etc.?
JohnDuncan:Has anybody ever read Stephen King's "The Dark Tower"?
I bought it for my wife. (Well, one of them*). She has a whole shelf of SK.
*Books, not wives.
I'm surprised one wife let you invest in that kit..........
How long should the shelf be? Is it lacquered finish as some think that makes it too slippy? What kind of wood is best etc. etc.?
chebby
Well-known member
- Jun 2, 2008
- 1,257
- 34
- 19,220
Graham_Thomas:
I'm surprised one wife let you invest in that kit..........
I sometimes think she likes the Naim more than I do. Even the look of them. (Something about the green glow.) She certainly loves the speakers. I doubt I will be allowed to upgrade those even if the opportunity arises.
I'm surprised one wife let you invest in that kit..........
I sometimes think she likes the Naim more than I do. Even the look of them. (Something about the green glow.) She certainly loves the speakers. I doubt I will be allowed to upgrade those even if the opportunity arises.
chebby:
Graham_Thomas:
I'm surprised one wife let you invest in that kit..........
I sometimes think she likes the Naim more than I do. Even the look of them. (Something about the green glow.) She certainly loves the speakers. I doubt I will be allowed to upgrade those even if the opportunity arises.
Is she available on a home trial basis? You lucky thing - I go (after a tweak etc. or new component) 'how does it sound?' - the answer ALWAYS is 'just the same as it did'!!
Graham_Thomas:
I'm surprised one wife let you invest in that kit..........
I sometimes think she likes the Naim more than I do. Even the look of them. (Something about the green glow.) She certainly loves the speakers. I doubt I will be allowed to upgrade those even if the opportunity arises.
Is she available on a home trial basis? You lucky thing - I go (after a tweak etc. or new component) 'how does it sound?' - the answer ALWAYS is 'just the same as it did'!!
chebby
Well-known member
- Jun 2, 2008
- 1,257
- 34
- 19,220
Graham_Thomas:Is she available on a home trial basis? You lucky thing
Graham. Can you dance? (Especially to Hot Chocolate's greatest hits!)
Even if the kids are snickering/gagging in the next room? (Parents are sooo embarassing.)
Do you like to listen to the entire Omnibus edition of 'The Archers' every Sunday morning on the hifi?
Do you like to hear a LOT of the Sensational Alex Harvey band and David Bowie?
(Oh, and you must grow a beard and be at least 6 foot. It goes back to some deep-rooted and inexplicable Kris Kristofferson 'thing' from the 1970s but it helps to oblige.)
Graham. Can you dance? (Especially to Hot Chocolate's greatest hits!)
Even if the kids are snickering/gagging in the next room? (Parents are sooo embarassing.)
Do you like to listen to the entire Omnibus edition of 'The Archers' every Sunday morning on the hifi?
Do you like to hear a LOT of the Sensational Alex Harvey band and David Bowie?
(Oh, and you must grow a beard and be at least 6 foot. It goes back to some deep-rooted and inexplicable Kris Kristofferson 'thing' from the 1970s but it helps to oblige.)
chebby:
Graham_Thomas:Is she available on a home trial basis? You lucky thing
Graham. Can you dance? (Especially to Hot Chocolate's greatest hits!)
Even if the kids are snickering/gagging in the next room? (Parents are sooo embarassing.)
Do you like to listen to the entire Omnibus edition of 'The Archers' every Sunday morning on the hifi?
Do you like to hear a LOT of the Sensational Alex Harvey band and David Bowie?
(Oh, and you must grow a beard and be at least 6 foot. It goes back to some deep-rooted and inexplicable Kris Kristofferson 'thing' from the 1970s but it helps to oblige.)
That's 4 NOs, David Bowie, 1 beard and a 5' 7" midget - You sexy thang.
Some women are just tooo fussy........
Graham_Thomas:Is she available on a home trial basis? You lucky thing
Graham. Can you dance? (Especially to Hot Chocolate's greatest hits!)
Even if the kids are snickering/gagging in the next room? (Parents are sooo embarassing.)
Do you like to listen to the entire Omnibus edition of 'The Archers' every Sunday morning on the hifi?
Do you like to hear a LOT of the Sensational Alex Harvey band and David Bowie?
(Oh, and you must grow a beard and be at least 6 foot. It goes back to some deep-rooted and inexplicable Kris Kristofferson 'thing' from the 1970s but it helps to oblige.)
That's 4 NOs, David Bowie, 1 beard and a 5' 7" midget - You sexy thang.
Some women are just tooo fussy........
chebby:Kris may have been a midget but the missus likes tall blokes so you only need the beard.
I have the beard but nothing else........Every 1's a Winner !!
I have the beard but nothing else........Every 1's a Winner !!
JohnDuncan:Has anybody ever read Stephen King's "The Dark Tower"?
Great book and far more interesting than another cable debate.
Great book and far more interesting than another cable debate.
sthomas048, I too bought the Rega Apollo, last week. I already was in possession of a Van den Hul D-102 III Hybrid interconnect (paid £100 for it several years ago) so naturally I hooked up the Apollo (once sufficiently warmed up) with these exotic interconnects. The sound from the Apollo was very thin, lean and generally unenjoyable. A blast of electronic music (Mylo's Destroy Rock & Roll) yielded an impressive but somehow uninvolving and dry sound, so I then switched to Verve's Bitter Sweet Syphony and things got worse. Yes there was plenty of detail but as the song got busier the sound became an ill-timed mess, with Richard Ashcrofts voice stangely muted and lacking expression (in fact it sounded like he was dying, with a cold). So I brought my old Marantz CD-67mkII back from its box, hooked it up with freebie cable to my audiolab 8000s and re-loaded Bitter Sweet Symphony. The sound had lost imaging & organisation however it more than made up for it with a more meaningful and enjoyable less lean sound. For some time I sat there frustrated by this and in my despair I eventually thought to use the freebie cable on the Rega ...back into the Apollo went The Verve & WOW what a difference! Ashcrofts voice came right to the fore with genuine expression (and no hint of a cold), the supporting arrangement was balanced and organised. There was a rightness and genuine substance to the sound. The only negative was that detail/timbre was lost from the instruments, making them sound less real. My task now is to find a cable (it won't bother me if its dirt 'cheap'), that will keep the virtues of the freebie cable while improving timing/rhythm, and timbre (other task is to get rid of the lacklustre Van den Hul). Regarding the Apollo, its proving to be lovely CD spinner.
Silver High Breed interconnects .... made a huge difference on my system .... spent a long time reading forums and researching before buying, as am (always) on a tight budget....
have not read of anyone being unhappy with them for the price paid.
Would be nice to hear an official review on these from What Hi Fi?
have not read of anyone being unhappy with them for the price paid.
Would be nice to hear an official review on these from What Hi Fi?
I'm a huge fan of the Kimber range sold via Russ Andrews - and have owned various ones up the upgrade path to my current Select KS1030 ....... all have been very good along the way. Definitely worth a try ........ there will be something there in your budget, whatever it is.....
Also, they sell 0.5m lengths, which if you can accommodate is excellent - meaning you can get a better cable for the same money as you may have spent on the usual 1m length many manufacturers do as a minimum.....!
Also, they sell 0.5m lengths, which if you can accommodate is excellent - meaning you can get a better cable for the same money as you may have spent on the usual 1m length many manufacturers do as a minimum.....!
taxiboy:JohnDuncan:Has anybody ever read Stephen King's "The Dark Tower"? Great book and far more interesting than another cable debate.
I think he was referring to the book being like this thread.
I think he was referring to the book being like this thread.
As Taxiboy no longer frequents these hallowed surrounds I shall answer in his stead
...
...Yep, just realised that, sorry JD, great shot.
...Yep, just realised that, sorry JD, great shot.
optimus_rai:
sthomas048, I too bought the Rega Apollo, last week. I already was in possession of a Van den Hul D-102 III Hybrid interconnect (paid £100 for it several years ago) so naturally I hooked up the Apollo (once sufficiently warmed up) with these exotic interconnects. The sound from the Apollo was very thin, lean and generally unenjoyable. A blast of electronic music (Mylo's Destroy Rock & Roll) yielded an impressive but somehow uninvolving and dry sound, so I then switched to Verve's Bitter Sweet Syphony and things got worse. Yes there was plenty of detail but as the song got busier the sound became an ill-timed mess, with Richard Ashcrofts voice stangely muted and lacking expression (in fact it sounded like he was dying, with a cold). So I brought my old Marantz CD-67mkII back from its box, hooked it up with freebie cable to my audiolab 8000s and re-loaded Bitter Sweet Symphony. The sound had lost imaging & organisation however it more than made up for it with a more meaningful and enjoyable less lean sound. For some time I sat there frustrated by this and in my despair I eventually thought to use the freebie cable on the Rega ...back into the Apollo went The Verve & WOW what a difference! Ashcrofts voice came right to the fore with genuine expression (and no hint of a cold), the supporting arrangement was balanced and organised. There was a rightness and genuine substance to the sound. The only negative was that detail/timbre was lost from the instruments, making them sound less real. My task now is to find a cable (it won't bother me if its dirt 'cheap'), that will keep the virtues of the freebie cable while improving timing/rhythm, and timbre (other task is to get rid of the lacklustre Van den Hul). Regarding the Apollo, its proving to be lovely CD spinner.
I wonder if some "burn in" on the Rega might have given the VDH a chance to shine? That said, I used a VDH coax between a cdp and amp a while back and found half of a diy rca lead to sound better.
sthomas048, I too bought the Rega Apollo, last week. I already was in possession of a Van den Hul D-102 III Hybrid interconnect (paid £100 for it several years ago) so naturally I hooked up the Apollo (once sufficiently warmed up) with these exotic interconnects. The sound from the Apollo was very thin, lean and generally unenjoyable. A blast of electronic music (Mylo's Destroy Rock & Roll) yielded an impressive but somehow uninvolving and dry sound, so I then switched to Verve's Bitter Sweet Syphony and things got worse. Yes there was plenty of detail but as the song got busier the sound became an ill-timed mess, with Richard Ashcrofts voice stangely muted and lacking expression (in fact it sounded like he was dying, with a cold). So I brought my old Marantz CD-67mkII back from its box, hooked it up with freebie cable to my audiolab 8000s and re-loaded Bitter Sweet Symphony. The sound had lost imaging & organisation however it more than made up for it with a more meaningful and enjoyable less lean sound. For some time I sat there frustrated by this and in my despair I eventually thought to use the freebie cable on the Rega ...back into the Apollo went The Verve & WOW what a difference! Ashcrofts voice came right to the fore with genuine expression (and no hint of a cold), the supporting arrangement was balanced and organised. There was a rightness and genuine substance to the sound. The only negative was that detail/timbre was lost from the instruments, making them sound less real. My task now is to find a cable (it won't bother me if its dirt 'cheap'), that will keep the virtues of the freebie cable while improving timing/rhythm, and timbre (other task is to get rid of the lacklustre Van den Hul). Regarding the Apollo, its proving to be lovely CD spinner.
I wonder if some "burn in" on the Rega might have given the VDH a chance to shine? That said, I used a VDH coax between a cdp and amp a while back and found half of a diy rca lead to sound better.
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