In Retrospect . . . ?

[matt49]

Using an active configuration may also help the dynamic response and bass control, directly connected amplifiers will usually do that, but given CJSF's choice of amplifier, I can see it would difficult to implement this choice.

I'd have thought it's a complete non-starter. CJSF has a valve amp he's very happy with and has written about at length in many threads, including the first post in this thread.

Matt

Well you know the AVI boys, any mension of a speaker thread and they all decsend irrespective of what the OP is asking...........

Well, there's a certain amount of truth in that, though I wouldn't put Dave in that category. He's a fellow traveller rather than a party member.

 

[matthewpiano]

Have you heard any modern KEFs? Perhaps the R100 might suit you? Or could you stretch to the new Reference range? The big floorstanders I heard the other night were fabulous.

 

[davedotco]

Using an active configuration may also help the dynamic response and bass control, directly connected amplifiers will usually do that, but given CJSF's choice of amplifier, I can see it would difficult to implement this choice.

I'd have thought it's a complete non-starter. CJSF has a valve amp he's very happy with and has written about at length in many threads, including the first post in this thread.

Matt

i was trying to be non-judgemental. had I been more aware of the OP's preference for valves, (not that clear in the opening post as I missed the reference to 'valve change'), I probably would not have mentioned them at all.

That said CJSF does talk about the 3/5a rather fondly and we all know that it's strengths is very much in the midrange, an area where active speakers often excell.

As for the idea that I push AVI at every opportunity, I think that very unfair, I often try to suggest less well known equipment where I feel it to be appropriate.

Maybe I should just stick with the herd, get a Marantz and some of those nice Monitor Audios.....*unknw*

 

[MajorFubar]

As for the idea that I push AVI at every opportunity, I think that very unfair, I often try to suggest less well known equipment where I feel it to be appropriate.

Don't fret about it. Some people have a deep-rooted paranoia that flares-up every time that brand is mentioned. What they don't seem to realise is that from a 'there's no such thing as negative publicity' perspective, the reaction against them just makes some people want to go listen to them even more to see what all the hatred is about. Though not of course CJ in this instance because they're an inappropriate solution, which you had already acknowledged.

 

[matt49]

As for the idea that I push AVI at every opportunity, I think that very unfair, I often try to suggest less well known equipment where I feel it to be appropriate.

I didn't say that, Dave. I know you're not one of the party members.

*ok*

Matt

 

[MajorFubar]

He was referring to the post from Sospri

 

[davedotco]

As for the idea that I push AVI at every opportunity, I think that very unfair, I often try to suggest less well known equipment where I feel it to be appropriate.

I didn't say that, Dave. I know you're not one of the party members.

*ok*

Matt

I realise that, I was making a general point after leaving a large gap after my reply to your 'Quote', Not as clearly separate as it should have been.

Mind you, I am not entirely comfortable with the term 'fellow traveller', I consider myself to be a 'non Euclidean' in hi-fi terms.

 

[plastic penguin]

No, Dave doesn't bang the active drum, but he's clever in that he'll often make a reference towards AVis. All very subtle.

I have no qualms with actives, just object to certain owners, (almost) regardless of the subject they'll bring actives into the fold. If you mention you prefer passives, oh lordy, what an insult to the whole music world. No doubt they will tell teacher (Ash); the active brigade have passive voodoo dolls while simultaneously stick pins thru them.

One of the many accusations about passive owners: They have no clue about music/hi-fi; they are mugs to spend so much money when they can get soooo much more blah blah blah...

 

[davedotco]

No, Dave doesn't bang the active drum, but he's clever in that he'll often make a reference towards AVis. All very subtle.

I have no qualms with actives, just object to certain owners, (almost) regardless of the subject they'll bring actives into the fold. If you mention you prefer passives, oh lordy, what an insult to the whole music world. No doubt they will tell teacher (Ash); the active brigade have passive voodoo dolls while simultaneously stick pins thru them.

One of the many accusations about passive owners: They have no clue about music/hi-fi; they are mugs to spend so much money when they can get soooo much more blah blah blah...

Care to expand on that.....?

As for the rest, that is nonsense as far as I am concerned. If I have an agenda, it is simply that I find most conventional and mostly highly regarded budget and mid-range hi-fi, to be mediocre and uninspiring. I go out of my way to find and recommend alternatives to what I regard as the 'usual suspects'.

 

[plastic penguin]

No, Dave doesn't bang the active drum, but he's clever in that he'll often make a reference towards AVis. All very subtle.

I have no qualms with actives, just object to certain owners, (almost) regardless of the subject they'll bring actives into the fold. If you mention you prefer passives, oh lordy, what an insult to the whole music world. No doubt they will tell teacher (Ash); the active brigade have passive voodoo dolls while simultaneously stick pins thru them.

One of the many accusations about passive owners: They have no clue about music/hi-fi; they are mugs to spend so much money when they can get soooo much more blah blah blah...

Care to expand on that.....?

As for the rest, that is nonsense as far as I am concerned. If I have an agenda, it is simply that I find most conventional and mostly highly regarded budget and mid-range hi-fi, to be mediocre and uninspiring. I go out of my way to find and recommend alternatives to what I regard as the 'usual suspects'.

Yes I will. (Not the Hollies song)

Of all the posts I've read of yours (not too many as I don't fully understand English), I'm hard pushed to think of where you haven't mentioned the dreaded 'A' set-up. Whether someone wants to know about which speakers then you'll bring in (on occasions) the 'A' crossover is subtlely dropped in etc etc.

Never said you had an agenda, only that you can't help yourself breezing some sort of reference towards the 'A' configuration.

 

[stevebrock]

The OP has a valve amp, valve phono stage, a heavily tweaked TT - by all accounts it sings like a canary - this is from a 3rd party. To even think Active speakers could play a part in this set up is akin to Farage running the country ie an absolute fooking joke!

 

[matthewpiano]

Are we really doing this again, and on this thread?

CJ is one of the most pleasant posters on this forum, and he has started this thread to discuss the possibilities for his system, not a debate about who recommends actives and when/why.

What about getting back to the subject and giving CJ some further ideas and discussion?

 

[CJSF]

Putting things in perspective, I have never listened to active speakers. I would not be advers but as far as I know there is no dealer within 50-60 miles of Ipswich that I can visit, one would also require a measured A-B passive comparison at that dealer? . . . I have always said I have an open mind, all be it, very positive about my ideas and personal likes.

It has to be said, I am a valve man, back in the 80's I bought a pair of EAR 509's, since then its been Croft and now Icon . . . I know, why the move from 509's, a long story that is not apropriate on this thread. My present equipment is; much modified P5 TT, AudioMods Clasic arm, Sumiko Celebration MC cartridge, a Carver MC cartrige transformer into an Icon PS valve phono stage, then an intigrated Icom ST40 amplifier using its 20w Triode capabuility. CDP Rega Apollo, lots of Spotify all feeding the PMC speakers via some ordinary Linn K20 copper cable.

So we (thats the royal 'we') are basic in our likes and dislikes, all the above has been chosen, matched and tweaked to give its best performance, hence the thread. We need to open the 'door properly' to move on, the speakers have never been changed or tweaked, eveything else has come under scrutiny in the past few years . . . including cables!

Another factor is room size, small at 12ft sq, and fairly cluttered in an 1882 cottage. Music is jazz, Irish folk and US country, interspersed with some classical, I particularly like pipe organ music. We dip our toe into the world of pop, with the likes of Jeff Beck, Santana, Paul Simon, Peter Gabriel, these are names on the top of my recently played pile of vinyl. Moving into Soptify, we have a very eclectic 'try it to see?' play list . . . there is some rubbish there that needs clearing out!!!

CJSF

 

[davedotco]

No, Dave doesn't bang the active drum, but he's clever in that he'll often make a reference towards AVis. All very subtle.

I have no qualms with actives, just object to certain owners, (almost) regardless of the subject they'll bring actives into the fold. If you mention you prefer passives, oh lordy, what an insult to the whole music world. No doubt they will tell teacher (Ash); the active brigade have passive voodoo dolls while simultaneously stick pins thru them.

One of the many accusations about passive owners: They have no clue about music/hi-fi; they are mugs to spend so much money when they can get soooo much more blah blah blah...

Care to expand on that.....?

As for the rest, that is nonsense as far as I am concerned. If I have an agenda, it is simply that I find most conventional and mostly highly regarded budget and mid-range hi-fi, to be mediocre and uninspiring. I go out of my way to find and recommend alternatives to what I regard as the 'usual suspects'.

Yes I will. (Not the Hollies song)

Of all the posts I've read of yours (not too many as I don't fully understand English), I'm hard pushed to think of where you haven't mentioned the dreaded 'A' set-up. Whether someone wants to know about which speakers then you'll bring in (on occasions) the 'A' crossover is subtlely dropped in etc etc.

Never said you had an agenda, only that you can't help yourself breezing some sort of reference towards the 'A' configuration.

When you say "'A'" are you talking about AVI specifically or active speakers in general?

I really do not feel that I hype AVI as a brand, but I do 'go on' about active speakers in general. There are a lot of people who post on here who have certain issues, usually bass related, where the active option (inexpensive studio monitors) offer an excellent solution. They offer fine value for money, particularly when they can be driven directly from a computer or streamer.

Active crossovers are often mentioned too, in this particular case their ability to 'tidy up' the response around the crossover can give increased clarity in the midband, something CJSF appears to consider important.

By the way, your written english is excellent, it never occurred to me that English was mot your first language!

 

[plastic penguin]

No, Dave doesn't bang the active drum, but he's clever in that he'll often make a reference towards AVis. All very subtle.

I have no qualms with actives, just object to certain owners, (almost) regardless of the subject they'll bring actives into the fold. If you mention you prefer passives, oh lordy, what an insult to the whole music world. No doubt they will tell teacher (Ash); the active brigade have passive voodoo dolls while simultaneously stick pins thru them.

One of the many accusations about passive owners: They have no clue about music/hi-fi; they are mugs to spend so much money when they can get soooo much more blah blah blah...

Care to expand on that.....?

As for the rest, that is nonsense as far as I am concerned. If I have an agenda, it is simply that I find most conventional and mostly highly regarded budget and mid-range hi-fi, to be mediocre and uninspiring. I go out of my way to find and recommend alternatives to what I regard as the 'usual suspects'.

Yes I will. (Not the Hollies song)

Of all the posts I've read of yours (not too many as I don't fully understand English), I'm hard pushed to think of where you haven't mentioned the dreaded 'A' set-up. Whether someone wants to know about which speakers then you'll bring in (on occasions) the 'A' crossover is subtlely dropped in etc etc.

Never said you had an agenda, only that you can't help yourself breezing some sort of reference towards the 'A' configuration.

When you say "'A'" are you talking about AVI specifically or active speakers in general?

I really do not feel that I hype AVI as a brand, but I do 'go on' about active speakers in general. There are a lot of people who post on here who have certain issues, usually bass related, where the active option (inexpensive studio monitors) offer an excellent solution. They offer fine value for money, particularly when they can be driven directly from a computer or streamer.

Active crossovers are often mentioned too, in this particular case their ability to 'tidy up' the response around the crossover can give increased clarity in the midband, something CJSF appears to consider important.

By the way, your written english is excellent, it never occurred to me that English was mot your first language!

Yes 'A' is for active. And yes, born and bred in Southern England.

I was tagging you along a little, hence the reference to Voodoo dolls and so on and so forth.

BTW, my King's English is still c##p. *blum3*

As others have said, let's get back to CJ's issue of speakers (passive ones). *pleasantry*

 

[davedotco]

Putting things in perspective, I have never listened to active speakers. I would not be advers but as far as I know there is no dealer within 50-60 miles of Ipswich that I can visit, one would also require a measured A-B passive comparison at that dealer? . . . I have always said I have an open mind, all be it, very positive about my ideas and personal likes.

It has to be said, I am a valve man, back in the 80's I bought a pair of EAR 509's, since then its been Croft and now Icon . . . I know, why the move from 509's, a long story that is not apropriate on this thread. My present equipment is; much modified P5 TT, AudioMods Clasic arm, Sumiko Celebration MC cartridge, a Carver MC cartrige transformer into an Icon PS valve phono stage, then an intigrated Icom ST40 amplifier using its 20w Triode capabuility. CDP Rega Apollo, lots of Spotify all feeding the PMC speakers via some ordinary Linn K20 copper cable.

So we (thats the royal 'we') are basic in our likes and dislikes, all the above has been chosen, matched and tweaked to give its best performance, hence the thread. We need to open the 'door properly' to move on, the speakers have never been changed or tweaked, eveything else has come under scrutiny in the past few years . . . including cables!

Another factor is room size, small at 12ft sq, and fairly cluttered in an 1882 cottage. Music is jazz, Irish folk and US country, interspersed with some classical, I particularly like pipe organ music. We dip our toe into the world of pop, with the likes of Jeff Beck, Santana, Paul Simon, Peter Gabriel, these are names on the top of my recently played pile of vinyl. Moving into Soptify, we have a very eclectic 'try it to see?' play list . . . there is some rubbish there that needs clearing out!!!

CJSF

Nice system, though had I known the details i would probably not of suggested the DM5s.

Interestingly (or not) when I ditched my 'big' system some 15-16 years ago, I lived with a much smaller system built around an EL34 based amplifier. Like yours, I could switch between triode and pentode mode, though in a larger room I normally used them as pentodes.

This is used to drive a pair of tiny ribbon hybrids, 5 inch bass and dipole ribbons on medium heavy 24 inch stands. Results are delightful but, as you might expect, not at it's best when asked to play loud or reproduce large scale music.

But when it is good, it is very, very good indeed and I can see why you might well want 'more of the same' though it can be a somewhat fraught path, trying very hard not to upset system synergy.

Proac have a reputation for being good with valves, maybe the response D1 are worth a go along with the usual Harbeth, Spendor models. One completely off the wall suggestion might be the Martin Logan Motion 15 and 35xt stand mounts, if you can find them. The 15s do have some 'character', so might not be to your taste, very engaging though and not expensive.

One speaker that I would suspect you would like a lot is the Elac BS314. I have a lot of experience with this speaker, quite exceptional performance but it is starting to get a bit expensive. There are some less expensive models though I have no experience of them.

 

[davedotco]

Duplicate......*wacko*

 

[davedotco]

No, Dave doesn't bang the active drum, but he's clever in that he'll often make a reference towards AVis. All very subtle.

I have no qualms with actives, just object to certain owners, (almost) regardless of the subject they'll bring actives into the fold. If you mention you prefer passives, oh lordy, what an insult to the whole music world. No doubt they will tell teacher (Ash); the active brigade have passive voodoo dolls while simultaneously stick pins thru them.

One of the many accusations about passive owners: They have no clue about music/hi-fi; they are mugs to spend so much money when they can get soooo much more blah blah blah...

Care to expand on that.....?

As for the rest, that is nonsense as far as I am concerned. If I have an agenda, it is simply that I find most conventional and mostly highly regarded budget and mid-range hi-fi, to be mediocre and uninspiring. I go out of my way to find and recommend alternatives to what I regard as the 'usual suspects'.

Yes I will. (Not the Hollies song)

Of all the posts I've read of yours (not too many as I don't fully understand English), I'm hard pushed to think of where you haven't mentioned the dreaded 'A' set-up. Whether someone wants to know about which speakers then you'll bring in (on occasions) the 'A' crossover is subtlely dropped in etc etc.

Never said you had an agenda, only that you can't help yourself breezing some sort of reference towards the 'A' configuration.

When you say "'A'" are you talking about AVI specifically or active speakers in general?

I really do not feel that I hype AVI as a brand, but I do 'go on' about active speakers in general. There are a lot of people who post on here who have certain issues, usually bass related, where the active option (inexpensive studio monitors) offer an excellent solution. They offer fine value for money, particularly when they can be driven directly from a computer or streamer.

Active crossovers are often mentioned too, in this particular case their ability to 'tidy up' the response around the crossover can give increased clarity in the midband, something CJSF appears to consider important.

By the way, your written english is excellent, it never occurred to me that English was mot your first language!

Yes 'A' is for active. And yes, born and bred in Southern England.

I was tagging you along a little, hence the reference to Voodoo dolls and so on and so forth.

BTW, my King's English is still c##p. *blum3*

As others have said, let's get back to CJ's issue of speakers (passive ones). *pleasantry*

I am very gullible in the sense that I tend to believe what people say. Gets me into trouble sometimes.

"*Pleasantry*"....? So, out of interest, what is your 'first' lanquage

PS. Address the speaker issue above. In between listening to Bjorn Again, playing live in Kew Gardens. just across the river from my current home.

 

[Overdose]

If the OP finds a solution in active speakers that gives all of the qualities desired, then that is surely is all there is to it?

How much the OP likes his current amplifier is an irrelevence, if an active solution can be found at (or under) budget then the amp becomes surplus and just gets moved on to release funds for other things.

I actually don't see a problem with DDCs suggestion, perhaps the current amp could be swapped out for a suitable tube pre-amp to complete the picture.?

 

[CJSF]

Putting things in perspective, I have never listened to active speakers. I would not be advers but as far as I know there is no dealer within 50-60 miles of Ipswich that I can visit, one would also require a measured A-B passive comparison at that dealer? . . . I have always said I have an open mind, all be it, very positive about my ideas and personal likes.

It has to be said, I am a valve man, back in the 80's I bought a pair of EAR 509's, since then its been Croft and now Icon . . . I know, why the move from 509's, a long story that is not apropriate on this thread. My present equipment is; much modified P5 TT, AudioMods Clasic arm, Sumiko Celebration MC cartridge, a Carver MC cartrige transformer into an Icon PS valve phono stage, then an intigrated Icom ST40 amplifier using its 20w Triode capabuility. CDP Rega Apollo, lots of Spotify all feeding the PMC speakers via some ordinary Linn K20 copper cable.

So we (thats the royal 'we') are basic in our likes and dislikes, all the above has been chosen, matched and tweaked to give its best performance, hence the thread. We need to open the 'door properly' to move on, the speakers have never been changed or tweaked, eveything else has come under scrutiny in the past few years . . . including cables!

Another factor is room size, small at 12ft sq, and fairly cluttered in an 1882 cottage. Music is jazz, Irish folk and US country, interspersed with some classical, I particularly like pipe organ music. We dip our toe into the world of pop, with the likes of Jeff Beck, Santana, Paul Simon, Peter Gabriel, these are names on the top of my recently played pile of vinyl. Moving into Soptify, we have a very eclectic 'try it to see?' play list . . . there is some rubbish there that needs clearing out!!!

CJSF

Nice system, though had I known the details i would probably not of suggested the DM5s.

Interestingly (or not) when I ditched my 'big' system some 15-16 years ago, I lived with a much smaller system built around an EL34 based amplifier. Like yours, I could switch between triode and pentode mode, though in a larger room I normally used them as pentodes.

This is used to drive a pair of tiny ribbon hybrids, 5 inch bass and dipole ribbons on medium heavy 24 inch stands. Results are delightful but, as you might expect, not at it's best when asked to play loud or reproduce large scale music.

But when it is good, it is very, very good indeed and I can see why you might well want 'more of the same' though it can be a somewhat fraught path, trying very hard not to upset system synergy.

Proac have a reputation for being good with valves, maybe the response D1 are worth a go along with the usual Harbeth, Spendor models. One completely off the wall suggestion might be the Martin Logan Motion 15 and 35xt stand mounts, if you can find them. The 15s do have some 'character', so might not be to your taste, very engaging though and not expensive.

One speaker that I would suspect you would like a lot is the Elac BS314. I have a lot of experience with this speaker, quite exceptional performance but it is starting to get a bit expensive. There are some less expensive models though I have no experience of them.

There you go Dave, you have a feeling for my situation, Martin Logan 15 . . . one for the list, although I looked at the review??? Interesting you used a 24" medium/heavy stands, I use a pair of Foundation Designer stands, heavy!!! I designed them originaly for 35a's, putting base control/extention into that speaker, they work well with other small speakers too.

The fact that I started with Proac Tablets rings a few bells . . . ?

Food for thought, thanks Dave.

CJSF

 

[CJSF]

I actually don't see a problem with DDCs suggestion, perhaps the current amp could be swapped out for a suitable tube pre-amp to complete the picture.?

Thats a good sugesrtion OD . . . I put great store in valve preamplification, not so worried about the power amp Thats Croft philosopy, tiny signals need the finess and delicate handling of valves, the power side go through Fets . . . it works to. Kind of sideways thinking but that my way of doing things . . . ?

CJSF

 

[Overdose]

HERE are a few to drool over.

 

[matt49]

If you have space, panels may be just the thing. Moorgate currently have some ex-demo Maggies at a decent price. They will give you a super smooth and detailed presentation, which might be right up your street.

I am a convert (with all the associated evangelism) to panel speakers. They aren't for everyone, because they don't have the sheer heft that rock lovers like. But if you want the timbres of voices and acoustic instruments presented vividly, panels will do it in a way that no cone speakers (active or passive) can equal.

I mainly listen to classical music. The first time I heard panels (Martin Logan electrostatics) I was blown away.

Matt

 

[CJSF]

Great respons, much food for thought . . .

Hear I sit, almost 3 o'clock on Friday morning, I have made a minor change to my amplifier, first it was the Sylvania onion valves, that was enough to get me thinking and post the thread, now I have gone a tad further, a little excentricity I supose . . . the music is engrosing.

I realy must go to bed . . . soon. Hazel is still up, just bought the Horlicks in, Emmylou Harris curently playing, track; 'Making Believe'.

CJSF

 

[plastic penguin]

No, Dave doesn't bang the active drum, but he's clever in that he'll often make a reference towards AVis. All very subtle.

I have no qualms with actives, just object to certain owners, (almost) regardless of the subject they'll bring actives into the fold. If you mention you prefer passives, oh lordy, what an insult to the whole music world. No doubt they will tell teacher (Ash); the active brigade have passive voodoo dolls while simultaneously stick pins thru them.

One of the many accusations about passive owners: They have no clue about music/hi-fi; they are mugs to spend so much money when they can get soooo much more blah blah blah...

Care to expand on that.....?

As for the rest, that is nonsense as far as I am concerned. If I have an agenda, it is simply that I find most conventional and mostly highly regarded budget and mid-range hi-fi, to be mediocre and uninspiring. I go out of my way to find and recommend alternatives to what I regard as the 'usual suspects'.

Yes I will. (Not the Hollies song)

Of all the posts I've read of yours (not too many as I don't fully understand English), I'm hard pushed to think of where you haven't mentioned the dreaded 'A' set-up. Whether someone wants to know about which speakers then you'll bring in (on occasions) the 'A' crossover is subtlely dropped in etc etc.

Never said you had an agenda, only that you can't help yourself breezing some sort of reference towards the 'A' configuration.

When you say "'A'" are you talking about AVI specifically or active speakers in general?

I really do not feel that I hype AVI as a brand, but I do 'go on' about active speakers in general. There are a lot of people who post on here who have certain issues, usually bass related, where the active option (inexpensive studio monitors) offer an excellent solution. They offer fine value for money, particularly when they can be driven directly from a computer or streamer.

Active crossovers are often mentioned too, in this particular case their ability to 'tidy up' the response around the crossover can give increased clarity in the midband, something CJSF appears to consider important.

By the way, your written english is excellent, it never occurred to me that English was mot your first language!

Yes 'A' is for active. And yes, born and bred in Southern England.

I was tagging you along a little, hence the reference to Voodoo dolls and so on and so forth.

BTW, my King's English is still c##p. *blum3*

As others have said, let's get back to CJ's issue of speakers (passive ones). *pleasantry*

.

PS. Bjorn Again, playing live in Kew Gardens. just across the river from my current home.

Ahhh... you must live close to the Mecca of linen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he32H-lQo7s

Not arf....