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BigH

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Dec 29, 2012
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keeper of the quays said:
BigH said:
keeper of the quays said:
BigH said:
keeper of the quays said:
Thompsonuxb said:
Do turntables really sound any different or better compared to CDplayers?

In a 'blind test' do you honestly believe a TT/vinyl would sound better or different than the same track on CD if the crackle and pop was included?

Forget the DR table as it is rubbish and tells you nothing as to what a track sounds like under real world conditions.

I still believe CD trumps vinyl but have not compared a modern deck/vinyl pressing with a cdplayer.
i think a good cdp is better than vinyl...a example yesterday springs to mind..my mate played some chopin on his very good cdp and i was riveted by it..i heard all subtleties in the music.but more i heard a inner world to chopin..this weaving texture that fred was feeling when he wrote this! Im not a fan of chopin and after five mins my mate said lets put on santana..i said no way..im in the chopin zone..spent next hour just listrning to this genius..never had this before..im now a huge fan..went home..ttird same recording on my cdp..yes very good..but not all enveloping..so played record of chopin..again very good but didnt tranport me to the beautiful world of chopin..my mates cdp took to that world instantly and there i remained..they say piano music is a very good test of cdp...hadnt realised how satisfying a piano can sound like..a good cdp trounces everything except for uber high end turntables and kit...which i have heard but its not for us mere mortals..a amp costing same as a house! So the uber high end doesnt count..in the normal world a good cdp is the best! In my humble opinion..
So your excellent cd player could not reveal it but your mates high end one can? Then you compare it with a mid range Turntable, budget phono stage and budget MC cartridge? For classical I would probably agree than cd is better than vinyl because classical digital is well mastered. But for other music such as pop and rock I disagree I think vinyl is better on many albums mostly due to the mastering, most cds this century are over compressed, average is about 6, vinyl average about 11. But if you hear comparisons digital sounds thinner, more sterile, especially the bass and cymbals on digital are often tissy, just look on youtube there are plenty of examples, even high end cd players. Or find some with a decent turntable like Nottingham and compare with your cd or whats on Spotify. A lot of 70s albums I think sound better on vinyl, check out Led Zepp. Who's Next et al. Also try album by Adele and Coldplay, see which sounds best on different formats. The problem I have with vinyl is all the scratches, surface noise, defects like off centre, warped, get good quality records and the cost of it all. Now I don't live near any records shops so buying vinyl for me is not easy.
I was making the comparison yes...before i played this chopin at home we played chopin through his linn..the top of range with sme arm and offboard linn powersupply..using his dl103 with a music first step up! Is this pedigree good enough? But the record didnt reveal the hidden sanctum of chopin...the cyrus cdp with stand alone dac and the two cyrus power supplies did..clearly with no murmur or fanfare..just made the piano piece beautiful..my love of vinyl hasnt changed..i now need to save up for cyrus cdp/dac and power supplies..ps im sure a few people couldnt careless about this other version of music within the the chopin cd..it makes a difference to me as i hear what the composer is trying to say and feel what he is feeling as he wrote the piece! Isnt that the holy grail of hifi?
But that is one cd. You can't judge all music on one cd? Its classical which is only about 4% of the music market. On your cd player it did noting for you? Why not Adele or Coldplay or Red Hot Chilli Peppers or Oasis, maybe the vinyl is carp as well. Not all vinyl is better I grant you, lots of bad vinyl around also.
reason i mentioned chopin as it seems on the face of it..simple plinky plonky piano music..of course on good kit its not like that at all..but on really good cdp it becomes sublime..all the textures, nuances..etc..so on a complicated piece such as tchaikovsky 5 symphony..it reveals a different sonic landscape.those artists you mention above i wouldnt critically listen to? Pop or rock music which i like very much..you can keep adele..isnt very testing on good equipment...
Fair enough but most people don't have top of the range cd players, in fact I doubt most have one over £500. So really you should be comparing more usual palyers. Adele sounds bad and so do many other cds because they are so compressed and theres a lot of clipping, maybe ok in the car but not on hifi system. But you are saying cd sounds better so why not listen to them, sounds like a biased arguement to me. So you think cd sounds better but only on classical?
 

TrevC

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2013
325
135
19,070
Sorry, a CD is a far superior music carrier in every way. It's ridiculous to suggest that a signal translated into mechanical movement and back again sounds better than the signal that bypasses that process.

That isn't to say that all CDs sound better than all LPs.
 

The_Lhc

New member
Oct 16, 2008
1,176
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keeper of the quays said:
I may take my speakers to his place and see what it sounds like? But as i said elsewhere reference speakers just raise their game on better kit! His amp is naim..mine quad..we both have the same giant slaying pre amplifier! Lol...its his bloody cdp with its seperate dac and now seperate power supply! Happy i now big fan of fred chopin..miserable that my cdp just isnt good enough!
The answer is not to take your speakers to his house but to take your CD player. Plug yours in to his system in exactly the same way as his is and then compare. That way you can prove whether his CD player really is making all the difference.
 

BigH

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Dec 29, 2012
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lindsayt said:
BigH said:
lindsayt said:
I have Jethro Tull's Broadsword and the Beast on vinyl and CD. It's a digital era recording.

On my system the CD sounds as if you're listening to the vinyl, except that someone has been given a scouring pad, been zapped with an incredible shrinking ray and then jumped into the vinyl groove and scrubbed the whole lot with the scouring pad.

Gone is the occaisional bit of dirt noise and gone is the low level detail.

I prefer listening to the vinyl version on my system.

This is a pattern that's been repeated with every recording I have on both CD and vinyl - which admittedly is a small sample size.
I don't think Tull is a good example, I used to be a Tull fan in my youth, great live band, I have heard Tull on cd and digital streamed and I don't think its been well done, someone at work gave a Tull album or 2, Minstrel in the Gallery and something else, I thought they sounded dreadful, the vinyl is much better. They are a lot of complaints from Tull fans as well but maybe the latest remasters are better, I don't know. I did play Yes Fragile the other day and I though the digital sounded better, had a lot more detail, the vinyl sounded muddled and a bit dull, so if you have that maybe you can compare?
Broadsword and the Beast is a relatively good recording - even though it's easy to tell it's an early digital effort. It has a dark green DR rating. Unlike any of the best selling CD's from each of the last 20 years.

Kate Bush's The Dreaming is the same.

I have She's Not There by Santana on 12" single and CD. That's the same too. Low level detail scrubbed out with the scouring pad on the CD version.

I do use world class turntbles. If I were listening on a crude sounding record player (especially a poorly placed one) such as a Rega RP1 I may well prefer the CD versions.
I see. Yes I think early digital was not well done, some of the more recent remasters seem to be much better, maybe some of Tull ones done by Steve Wilson are mauch better but I have not heard them yet. Even some old jazz the recent remasters are meant to the best. I generally find jazz ok on digital.

Actually Aqualung is on Spotify, seems a lot better than the previous remasters still not sure its better than the vinyl though.
 

The_Lhc

New member
Oct 16, 2008
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Thompsonuxb said:
The_Lhc said:
Thompsonuxb said:
Do turntables really sound any different or better compared to CDplayers?

In a 'blind test' do you honestly believe a TT/vinyl would sound better or different than the same track on CD if the crackle and pop was included?
Well make your mind up, do you want better or different? Different is easily proved, better is subjective. I'm reminded of one of the times I went to the Bristol hi-fi show, walking along one of the corridors it was surprisingly easy to determine which rooms were demoing turntables and which were using CD players without even looking through the door, never mind going into the rooms.

Incidentally, unless you're playing a disc that is badly damaged or absolutely filthy you can't hear any crackle or pop whilst the track is playing, unless it's a quiet passage.

I still believe CD trumps vinyl but have not compared a modern deck/vinyl pressing with a cdplayer.
Bit of a pointless discussion then isn't it?
Many artist deliberately add 'crackle and pop' to give that 'authentic' vinyl sound. They've been doing it for some time now.
Really? Must be many artists I've never listened to as I've never heard that.

The differences you claim you heard at the Bristol show is surprising - that said alot depends on how good the demonstrators were at setting up the sets.
I was certainly surprised but I don't think it can be put down to setup issues, it seems unlikely that every CD system was set up badly and every vinyl system was set up correctly. At a professional show you'd hope all the exhibitors knew how to set their gear up, although the rooms themselves are a distinct compromise in many cases of course.

Not sure about your last point - I have not used Vinyl has a medium of choice since way back. But with this resurgence of the medium and Plastic Penguinst recent post ref a Arcam thought I'd ask is all..... :)
Well, just that if you want to talk about the difference, it might be useful to have some experience of a modern vinyl setup, that's all.
 

BigH

New member
Dec 29, 2012
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TrevC said:
Sorry, a CD is a far superior music carrier in every way. It's ridiculous to suggest that a signal translated into mechanical movement and back again sounds better than the signal that bypasses that process.

That isn't to say that all CDs sound better than all LPs.
But the mastering is not the same. For me the bass is different on vinyl, its warmer, softer, deeper, fuller, on digital it sounds harder and thinner, which is more accurate I'm not sure but I'm sure many prefer the vinyl. The mastering on many cds in the last 20 years is not for sound quality its more for loudness. Vinyl generally has a higher dynamic range than the equilovent cd.
 

The_Lhc

New member
Oct 16, 2008
1,176
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keeper of the quays said:
BigH said:
keeper of the quays said:
Thompsonuxb said:
Do turntables really sound any different or better compared to CDplayers?

In a 'blind test' do you honestly believe a TT/vinyl would sound better or different than the same track on CD if the crackle and pop was included?

Forget the DR table as it is rubbish and tells you nothing as to what a track sounds like under real world conditions.

I still believe CD trumps vinyl but have not compared a modern deck/vinyl pressing with a cdplayer.
i think a good cdp is better than vinyl...a example yesterday springs to mind..my mate played some chopin on his very good cdp and i was riveted by it..i heard all subtleties in the music.but more i heard a inner world to chopin..this weaving texture that fred was feeling when he wrote this! Im not a fan of chopin and after five mins my mate said lets put on santana..i said no way..im in the chopin zone..spent next hour just listrning to this genius..never had this before..im now a huge fan..went home..ttird same recording on my cdp..yes very good..but not all enveloping..so played record of chopin..again very good but didnt tranport me to the beautiful world of chopin..my mates cdp took to that world instantly and there i remained..they say piano music is a very good test of cdp...hadnt realised how satisfying a piano can sound like..a good cdp trounces everything except for uber high end turntables and kit...which i have heard but its not for us mere mortals..a amp costing same as a house! So the uber high end doesnt count..in the normal world a good cdp is the best! In my humble opinion..
So your excellent cd player could not reveal it but your mates high end one can? Then you compare it with a mid range Turntable, budget phono stage and budget MC cartridge? For classical I would probably agree than cd is better than vinyl because classical digital is well mastered. But for other music such as pop and rock I disagree I think vinyl is better on many albums mostly due to the mastering, most cds this century are over compressed, average is about 6, vinyl average about 11. But if you hear comparisons digital sounds thinner, more sterile, especially the bass and cymbals on digital are often tissy, just look on youtube there are plenty of examples, even high end cd players. Or find some with a decent turntable like Nottingham and compare with your cd or whats on Spotify. A lot of 70s albums I think sound better on vinyl, check out Led Zepp. Who's Next et al. Also try album by Adele and Coldplay, see which sounds best on different formats. The problem I have with vinyl is all the scratches, surface noise, defects like off centre, warped, get good quality records and the cost of it all. Now I don't live near any records shops so buying vinyl for me is not easy. 
I was making the comparison yes...before i played this chopin at home we played chopin through his linn..the top of range with sme arm and offboard linn powersupply..using his dl103 with a music first step up! Is this pedigree good enough? But the record didnt reveal the hidden sanctum of chopin...the cyrus cdp with stand alone dac and the two cyrus power supplies did..clearly with no murmur or fanfare..just made the piano piece beautiful..
Just one more question, are the CD and the vinyl of the same recording? Same orchestra, conductor, venue, date, etc etc. Come to that is your CD the same recording as his? Just trying to establish that your comparing like with like, your test procedure seems to leave a lot to be desired!
 

BigH

New member
Dec 29, 2012
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The_Lhc said:
Thompsonuxb said:
The_Lhc said:
Thompsonuxb said:
Do turntables really sound any different or better compared to CDplayers?

In a 'blind test' do you honestly believe a TT/vinyl would sound better or different than the same track on CD if the crackle and pop was included?
Well make your mind up, do you want better or different? Different is easily proved, better is subjective. I'm reminded of one of the times I went to the Bristol hi-fi show, walking along one of the corridors it was surprisingly easy to determine which rooms were demoing turntables and which were using CD players without even looking through the door, never mind going into the rooms.

Incidentally, unless you're playing a disc that is badly damaged or absolutely filthy you can't hear any crackle or pop whilst the track is playing, unless it's a quiet passage.

I still believe CD trumps vinyl but have not compared a modern deck/vinyl pressing with a cdplayer.
Bit of a pointless discussion then isn't it?
Many artist deliberately add 'crackle and pop' to give that 'authentic' vinyl sound. They've been doing it for some time now.
Really? Must be many artists I've never listened to as I've never heard that.

The differences you claim you heard at the Bristol show is surprising - that said alot depends on how good the demonstrators were at setting up the sets.
I was certainly surprised but I don't think it can be put down to setup issues, it seems unlikely that every CD system was set up badly and every vinyl system was set up correctly. At a professional show you'd hope all the exhibitors knew how to set their gear up, although the rooms themselves are a distinct compromise in many cases of course.

Not sure about your last point - I have not used Vinyl has a medium of choice since way back. But with this resurgence of the medium and Plastic Penguinst recent post ref a Arcam thought I'd ask is all..... :)
Well, just that if you want to talk about the difference, it might be useful to have some experience of a modern vinyl setup, that's all.
I do agree with one thing, there are quite a few cds now with vinyl crackling on the beginning, try Portishead and quite a few of more recent albums, can't remember the ones off hand, David Bowie - Black Tie white Noise. I don't like it, one thing I don't like with vinyl, why put on digital.
 

The_Lhc

New member
Oct 16, 2008
1,176
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BigH said:
The_Lhc said:
Thompsonuxb said:
The_Lhc said:
Thompsonuxb said:
Do turntables really sound any different or better compared to CDplayers?

In a 'blind test' do you honestly believe a TT/vinyl would sound better or different than the same track on CD if the crackle and pop was included?
Well make your mind up, do you want better or different? Different is easily proved, better is subjective. I'm reminded of one of the times I went to the Bristol hi-fi show, walking along one of the corridors it was surprisingly easy to determine which rooms were demoing turntables and which were using CD players without even looking through the door, never mind going into the rooms.

Incidentally, unless you're playing a disc that is badly damaged or absolutely filthy you can't hear any crackle or pop whilst the track is playing, unless it's a quiet passage.

I still believe CD trumps vinyl but have not compared a modern deck/vinyl pressing with a cdplayer.
Bit of a pointless discussion then isn't it?
Many artist deliberately add 'crackle and pop' to give that 'authentic' vinyl sound. They've been doing it for some time now.
Really? Must be many artists I've never listened to as I've never heard that.

The differences you claim you heard at the Bristol show is surprising - that said alot depends on how good the demonstrators were at setting up the sets.
I was certainly surprised but I don't think it can be put down to setup issues, it seems unlikely that every CD system was set up badly and every vinyl system was set up correctly. At a professional show you'd hope all the exhibitors knew how to set their gear up, although the rooms themselves are a distinct compromise in many cases of course.

Not sure about your last point - I have not used Vinyl has a medium of choice since way back. But with this resurgence of the medium and Plastic Penguinst recent post ref a Arcam thought I'd ask is all..... :)
Well, just that if you want to talk about the difference, it might be useful to have some experience of a modern vinyl setup, that's all.
I do agree with one thing, there are quite a few cds now with vinyl crackling on the beginning, try Portishead and quite a few of more recent albums,
Sure on individual tracks an artist might do something like that for effect or perhaps they've taken a sample from an LP precisely because it has a desired noise pattern or something (I know of a few like that). I'm not aware of anyone applying artificial noise to an entire album though.

can't remember the ones off hand, David Bowie - Black Tie white Noise.
Perhaps that's the white noise in the title? I haven't got that track I'm afraid.
 

Thompsonuxb

New member
Feb 19, 2012
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luckylion100 said:
vinyl sounds like vinyl. I could easily tell the difference in a blind test. It's not a case of what's better but what's more enjoyable to the listener. For me I enjoy the sound of vinyl over cd any day.
Could you?

I find that really interesting can you say what are the differences that distinguishes the two mediums.

Ultimately, is it background noise?

I am genuinely interested in your opinion.
 

Thompsonuxb

New member
Feb 19, 2012
129
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0
The_Lhc said:
BigH said:
The_Lhc said:
Thompsonuxb said:
The_Lhc said:
Thompsonuxb said:
Do turntables really sound any different or better compared to CDplayers?

In a 'blind test' do you honestly believe a TT/vinyl would sound better or different than the same track on CD if the crackle and pop was included?
Well make your mind up, do you want better or different? Different is easily proved, better is subjective. I'm reminded of one of the times I went to the Bristol hi-fi show, walking along one of the corridors it was surprisingly easy to determine which rooms were demoing turntables and which were using CD players without even looking through the door, never mind going into the rooms.

Incidentally, unless you're playing a disc that is badly damaged or absolutely filthy you can't hear any crackle or pop whilst the track is playing, unless it's a quiet passage.

I still believe CD trumps vinyl but have not compared a modern deck/vinyl pressing with a cdplayer.
Bit of a pointless discussion then isn't it?
Many artist deliberately add 'crackle and pop' to give that 'authentic' vinyl sound. They've been doing it for some time now.
Really? Must be many artists I've never listened to as I've never heard that.

The differences you claim you heard at the Bristol show is surprising - that said alot depends on how good the demonstrators were at setting up the sets.
I was certainly surprised but I don't think it can be put down to setup issues, it seems unlikely that every CD system was set up badly and every vinyl system was set up correctly. At a professional show you'd hope all the exhibitors knew how to set their gear up, although the rooms themselves are a distinct compromise in many cases of course.

Not sure about your last point - I have not used Vinyl has a medium of choice since way back. But with this resurgence of the medium and Plastic Penguinst recent post ref a Arcam thought I'd ask is all..... :)
Well, just that if you want to talk about the difference, it might be useful to have some experience of a modern vinyl setup, that's all.
I do agree with one thing, there are quite a few cds now with vinyl crackling on the beginning, try Portishead and quite a few of more recent albums,
Sure on individual tracks an artist might do something like that for effect or perhaps they've taken a sample from an LP precisely because it has a desired noise pattern or something (I know of a few like that). I'm not aware of anyone applying artificial noise to an entire album though.

can't remember the ones off hand, David Bowie - Black Tie white Noise.
Perhaps that's the white noise in the title? I haven't got that track I'm afraid.
Lol.....I tell you The_Lhc I'm currently totally and completely wound down, but give me a week or so for things to normalize and I'll give you the internet 'I have the bigger brain!!!' thrashing you clearly crave..... :-D

Thanks bigH, loads of artist use this effect even the 'dropping' the needle on the recored......
 

NSA_watch_my_toilet

New member
Aug 24, 2013
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0
Thompsonuxb said:
Do turntables really sound any different or better compared to CDplayers?

In a 'blind test' do you honestly believe a TT/vinyl would sound better or different than the same track on CD if the crackle and pop was included?

Forget the DR table as it is rubbish and tells you nothing as to what a track sounds like under real world conditions.

I still believe CD trumps vinyl but have not compared a modern deck/vinyl pressing with a cdplayer.
Yes, they are noticeable differences in the reproduction of a turntable and a cd player ; and, generally, it's possible to hear this differences on blindtest if you use a common turntable with a common fresh out the shelve disc.

It's not better, it's different. Vinyl has his flaws and problems that cd does not have, but lots of the old records have one advantage to the new recording methods => nearly non existing compression.

This is the typical type of signal you will have at the out of your soundcard/dac/cdplayer (sometimes even flatter) :


Those are two of the milions possible voicings going out by a turntable :




... and we didn't even spoke about the phono preamps, that are not mandatory neutral too.

Turntable is less that ideal in his ability of repoduction, but has the advantage of a lot of better source material. Dematerialized medias have the advantage of higher possible limits, but that must be permitted by the souce material. At the end, everybody choose what he likes the most. I use both. *drinks*
 

The_Lhc

New member
Oct 16, 2008
1,176
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Thompsonuxb said:
The_Lhc said:
BigH said:
The_Lhc said:
Thompsonuxb said:
The_Lhc said:
Thompsonuxb said:
Do turntables really sound any different or better compared to CDplayers?

In a 'blind test' do you honestly believe a TT/vinyl would sound better or different than the same track on CD if the crackle and pop was included?
Well make your mind up, do you want better or different? Different is easily proved, better is subjective. I'm reminded of one of the times I went to the Bristol hi-fi show, walking along one of the corridors it was surprisingly easy to determine which rooms were demoing turntables and which were using CD players without even looking through the door, never mind going into the rooms.

Incidentally, unless you're playing a disc that is badly damaged or absolutely filthy you can't hear any crackle or pop whilst the track is playing, unless it's a quiet passage.

I still believe CD trumps vinyl but have not compared a modern deck/vinyl pressing with a cdplayer.
Bit of a pointless discussion then isn't it?
Many artist deliberately add 'crackle and pop' to give that 'authentic' vinyl sound. They've been doing it for some time now.
Really? Must be many artists I've never listened to as I've never heard that.

The differences you claim you heard at the Bristol show is surprising - that said alot depends on how good the demonstrators were at setting up the sets.
I was certainly surprised but I don't think it can be put down to setup issues, it seems unlikely that every CD system was set up badly and every vinyl system was set up correctly. At a professional show you'd hope all the exhibitors knew how to set their gear up, although the rooms themselves are a distinct compromise in many cases of course.

Not sure about your last point - I have not used Vinyl has a medium of choice since way back. But with this resurgence of the medium and Plastic Penguinst recent post ref a Arcam thought I'd ask is all..... :)
Well, just that if you want to talk about the difference, it might be useful to have some experience of a modern vinyl setup, that's all.
I do agree with one thing, there are quite a few cds now with vinyl crackling on the beginning, try Portishead and quite a few of more recent albums,
Sure on individual tracks an artist might do something like that for effect or perhaps they've taken a sample from an LP precisely because it has a desired noise pattern or something (I know of a few like that). I'm not aware of anyone applying artificial noise to an entire album though.

can't remember the ones off hand, David Bowie - Black Tie white Noise.
Perhaps that's the white noise in the title? I haven't got that track I'm afraid.
Lol.....I tell you The_Lhc I'm currently totally and completely wound down, but give me a week or so for things to normalize and I'll give you the internet 'I have the bigger brain!!!' thrashing you clearly crave..... :-D
I think you might be reading more into my comments than I'm intending, I'd be genuinely interested in seeing a list of examples to check out, it's not something I've come across to the extent either of you are suggesting.

Thanks bigH, loads of artist use this effect even the 'dropping' the needle on the recored......
You must be able to give one example of this surely? It sounds ridiculous but without knowing the context it's being used in it's impossible to comment.
 

tino

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2011
135
10
18,595
These threads do go on and on don't they? I'm firmly entrenched in the 'digital' camp having done analogue media cassette/vinyl in my youth, All things being equal e.g. same master, same amp/speakers etc. I don't accept that vinyl is superior or better sounding. However I am quite happy to understand that the equipment, the physical media, the joy of collecting, and the 'ambience' around playing a physical disc might make listening to music more enjoyable for some folks. And that's great. Just not for me ... not even the best turntable 'in the world' would convince me to change.
 

luckylion100

New member
Nov 6, 2011
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puts generic vinyl crackle onto many of his tracks. I have a couple of his EP's and his abum Untrue on vinyl. The crackle drives me mad when listening to it on a turntable, played through a digital source it doesn't bother me...
 

tino

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2011
135
10
18,595
lindsayt said:
... as if you're listening to the vinyl, except that someone has been given a scouring pad, been zapped with an incredible shrinking ray and then jumped into the vinyl groove and scrubbed the whole lot with the scouring pad.

Gone is the occaisional bit of dirt noise and gone is the low level detail.
It works both ways, my old vinyl sounded like someone had got the CD, zapped a navvy down to miniature size to then go and tarmac some of the CD pits, dig up others, and leave lots of rubble scattered about ;-)
 

The_Lhc

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Oct 16, 2008
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luckylion100 said:
puts generic vinyl crackle onto many of his tracks. I have a couple of his EP's and his abum Untrue on vinyl. The crackle drives me mad when listening to it on a turntable, played through a digital source it doesn't bother me...
I'll look that up later, cheers.
 

BigH

New member
Dec 29, 2012
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tino said:
These threads do go on and on don't they? I'm firmly entrenched in the 'digital' camp having done analogue media cassette/vinyl in my youth, All things being equal e.g. same master, same amp/speakers etc. I don't accept that vinyl is superior or better sounding. However I am quite happy to understand that the equipment, the physical media, the joy of collecting, and the 'ambience' around playing a physical disc might make listening to music more enjoyable for some folks. And that's great. Just not for me ... not even the best turntable 'in the world' would convince me to change.
How can the master be the same? If the master is the same then yes digital is probably better.
 

luckylion100

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Nov 6, 2011
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With a little help I may try to put it to the test. An interesting experiment.

Yes, surface noise is definitely a factor but more so the warmth, or the apparent warmth to my ears of the format. I've just purchased a brand new Technics and am amazed at how good the vinyl replay is. A definite step up from my Pro-ject. I'm working my way through a series of differet genres of vinyl whilst testing it out... Some records sound awful, some I least expected in fact. Interpol's, Turn on the Bright Lights in particular, absolutely lifeless, muddled and limp, such a disappointment but other albums transcend their digital equivalents. I'm not saying one format is better than the other just that they are very different. I believe some people just miss the appeal of vinyl. I won't get drawn into one format is better than the other debates for I believe they are folly. Akin to talking about the greatest boxer of all time, regardless of weight divsions, it soon becomes a mire... I enjoy my high res downloads, the occasional album on cd and appreciate the absolute sound quality but even in digital it's not guaranteed. Hence I have a foot in both camps but I do love the unique sound of vinyl and it can sound amazing. I believe that with every format the media is key, quality of mastering, physical condition of record for instance. It's all been said many times over of course but vinyl is more than just about sound quality, whereas in other formats it's the be all and end all...

Edit, wrong Interpol Album...
 

TrevC

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2013
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BigH said:
TrevC said:
Sorry, a CD is a far superior music carrier in every way. It's ridiculous to suggest that a signal translated into mechanical movement and back again sounds better than the signal that bypasses that process.

That isn't to say that all CDs sound better than all LPs.
But the mastering is not the same. For me the bass is different on vinyl, its warmer, softer, deeper, fuller, on digital it sounds harder and thinner, which is more accurate I'm not sure but I'm sure many prefer the vinyl. The mastering on many cds in the last 20 years is not for sound quality its more for loudness. Vinyl generally has a higher dynamic range than the equilovent cd.
You have it the wrong way round. Extremes of bass and treble have to be filtered out for vinyl to avoid groove jumping and sibilance, and also the dynamic range has to be reduced so the quietest sounds don't get lost in the vinyl noise. CD has no such problems and much wider dynamic range capabilites and far lower noise.
 

BigH

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TrevC said:
BigH said:
TrevC said:
Sorry, a CD is a far superior music carrier in every way. It's ridiculous to suggest that a signal translated into mechanical movement and back again sounds better than the signal that bypasses that process.

That isn't to say that all CDs sound better than all LPs.
But the mastering is not the same. For me the bass is different on vinyl, its warmer, softer, deeper, fuller, on digital it sounds harder and thinner, which is more accurate I'm not sure but I'm sure many prefer the vinyl. The mastering on many cds in the last 20 years is not for sound quality its more for loudness. Vinyl generally has a higher dynamic range than the equilovent cd.
You have it the wrong way round. Extremes of bass and treble have to be filtered out for vinyl to avoid groove jumping and sibilance, and also the dynamic range has to be reduced so the quietest sounds don't get lost in the vinyl noise. CD has no such problems and much wider dynamic range capabilites and far lower noise.
Yes but in reality cd is compressed to sound loud so the DR is low often around about 7 sometimes even down to 0, vinyl yes I agree is compressed to a certain extent but is often around 11, the better vinyl is at 45rpm and only about 10 mins per side so they can fit more bass and DR on. Listening to vinyl compared to cd, vinyl seems to have more bass. Yes cd has a much wider DR but the record companies don't use it on most cds. Classical and Jazz yes often have decent DR but most pop and rock in the last 15 years or so do not.
 

lpv

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TrevC said:
Sorry, a CD is a far superior music carrier in every way. It's ridiculous to suggest that a signal translated into mechanical movement and back again sounds better than the signal that bypasses that process.

That isn't to say that all CDs sound better than all LPs.
in the same spirit - downloads sounds better ( more precise, truer to the recording) as signal bypasses process of burning cd's... all the mechanical movements are reduced to zero ( especially if you use SSD to store music)
 

Al ears

Moderator
The_Lhc said:
Thompsonuxb said:
Do turntables really sound any different or better compared to CDplayers?

In a 'blind test' do you honestly believe a TT/vinyl would sound better or different than the same track on CD if the crackle and pop was included?
Well make your mind up, do you want better or different? Different is easily proved, better is subjective. I'm reminded of one of the times I went to the Bristol hi-fi show, walking along one of the corridors it was surprisingly easy to determine which rooms were demoing turntables and which were using CD players without even looking through the door, never mind going into the rooms.

Incidentally, unless you're playing a disc that is badly damaged or absolutely filthy you can't hear any crackle or pop whilst the track is playing, unless it's a quiet passage.

I still believe CD trumps vinyl but have not compared a modern deck/vinyl pressing with a cdplayer.
Bit of a pointless discussion then isn't it?
+1

No point in debating this because if I say my turntable is better than my CDP someone else will just come along and say the opposite. Each to there own and this is far too generalised a question to answer.

Those that bother to setup a good turntable system will know which they prefer. I do but wouldn't dream of foisting my opinions on others.
 

TrevC

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Jun 12, 2013
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lpv said:
TrevC said:
Sorry, a CD is a far superior music carrier in every way. It's ridiculous to suggest that a signal translated into mechanical movement and back again sounds better than the signal that bypasses that process.

That isn't to say that all CDs sound better than all LPs.
in the same spirit - downloads sounds better ( more precise, truer to the recording) as signal bypasses process of burning cd's... all the mechanical movements are reduced to zero ( especially if you use SSD to store music)
There are no losses with digital, regardless of the carrier the signal will be unchanged, so CD and streaming at the same bitrate will sound the same.
 

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