Question IMPEDENCE.

[ianrjones]

Hello everybody.
It's something I know next to nothing about. I have the opportunity to purchase; NEAT ACOUSTIC ULTIMATUM XLS used speakers.
My problem is this; they are 6 ohms average, minimum 4 ohms. The amp I am currently suffering with is the YAMAHA as701.
Which is 8 ohms. the amp I will replace it with will also be 8 ohms. So here is my question (at last), are they compatible ?
or is it a no-no?
P.S. apologies to NOPIANO, whom I insulted some time ago, no excuses.
Thanks in advance,
IAN.

 

[Al ears]

Shouldn't be any problem. Just about any amp you can buy is nominally 8 ohm, some valve amps have 4 ohm speaker taps but it merely depends on how well an amp can drive low impedance speakers.
What are you considering to replace the Yamaha?

 

[ianrjones]

Thanks AL, The amps I am considering for next year, (JAN-SALES) are the LUXMAN Z series. 505Z, 507Z or the 509Z. To be realistic, waiting for one used or ex display will be highly competitive, with hundreds of bidders. So I believe I will have to buy new.
THANKS,
IAN.

 

[good_enough]

This is about the power reserves of the amp. At 4 ohms the speakers will take more current as there is lower impedance to the voltage the amp creates. Similar relationship to the familiar formula V=IR between resistance voltage and current for DC.

Amps SHOULD have indicated power into 8 ohms and 4 ohms. Hence my amp the Roksan K3 is rated at 140 watts per channel into 8, and 220 into 4 - the higher figure into 4 reflecting the fact that the current is going to be higher.

And behold - looking at the Luxman specs, the 505Z says "100W+100W (8Ω) and 150W+150W (4Ω)" which implies that they have anticipated different loads and given it a power supply adequate to the task.

 

[davidf]

I'm surprised the Luxman only outputs an extra 50% into 4ohms - most well designed amps with a stable power supply will double their output when the impedance halves.

 

[ianrjones]

Thank you gentlemen. How about A+B speakers when one pair is 8ohms, and the other is 4 ohms? I'm not trying to wind you up, I really need to know, before I make a purchase.
Thanking you.
IAN.

 

[manicm]

I'm surprised the Luxman only outputs an extra 50% into 4ohms - most well designed amps with a stable power supply will double their output when the impedance halves.

Only discovered recently that Luxman is part of the IAG group. Back to topic I don't think the Luxman would have trouble driving the speaker anyway.

 

[good_enough]

I'm surprised the Luxman only outputs an extra 50% into 4ohms - most well designed amps with a stable power supply will double their output when the impedance halves.

Not necessarily so. Most I've seen (see my Roksan) don't quite make it. I guess it's just value for money calculations - 220W should be enough, this side of an Oasis gig PA. I've never had my amp much beyond nine o'clock on my (nominally 8 ohm) speakers. On the grounds I'd like to keep my windows from blowing out.

In reality these max power stats are about having the headroom to handle transients. And if your amp is rated higher than your speakers, then you'd be fine on that score. Provided you don't turn it up to 11.

 

[good_enough]

Thank you gentlemen. How about A+B speakers when one pair is 8ohms, and the other is 4 ohms? I'm not trying to wind you up, I really need to know, before I make a purchase.
Thanking you.
IAN.

Should still be fine unless you turn the dial to max before switching to the 4 ohms - in which case you would have other problems like speakers jumping through the ceiling.

If the amp drives A or B, then you'd just need to adjust volume when switching.

If A and B (not sure why you'd do that as you'd have different volumes on the two) the amp would see a blended impedance of 2 and a bit ohms* (careful with that dial, Eugene) but send twice the amps to the 4 ohms as the 8 ohms hence the volume disparity.

*1/R = 1/R1 + 1/R2

 

[Gray]

How about A+B speakers when one pair is 8ohms, and the other is 4 ohms?

The impedance the amp sees will always be lower than the lowest parallel impedance.

And don't forget that, in use, the actual impedances will, at times dip below your 8 and 4 ohm figures.

Manufacturers provide connections for a second pair of speakers as a convenience feature - but I'd never be running more than one pair at a time.

 

[abacus]

I'm surprised the Luxman only outputs an extra 50% into 4ohms - most well designed amps with a stable power supply will double their output when the impedance halves.

You would think that, but I estimate about 75% of amps don't, or it is not even mentioned, hence the requirements for measurements when reviewing is of vital importance.

Bill

 

[Integralista]

Thanks AL, The amps I am considering for next year, (JAN-SALES) are the LUXMAN Z series. 505Z, 507Z or the 509Z. To be realistic, waiting for one used or ex display will be highly competitive, with hundreds of bidders. So I believe I will have to buy new.
THANKS,
IAN.

Hi Ian,

Neat Ultimatum XLS are very very good speakers with high resolution. Luxman amps from Z line are excellent choices for them. I will only add, Neats sound also very good with Naim Audio Nait amps and Rega Aethos will be excellent match as well. Lot of good possibilities.
BR. Juraj

 

[ianrjones]

Thanks for your input, time is on my side. Your new advice is certainly welcome. I am notorious at planning ahead for every item. In 5 years I will have a tube pre-amp and a pair of ss mono blocks. And I am honestly checking out the waters these days. Like I always say the future is promising, I believe it just gets better + better.
This is a cool site.

 

[Al ears]

Thanks AL, The amps I am considering for next year, (JAN-SALES) are the LUXMAN Z series. 505Z, 507Z or the 509Z. To be realistic, waiting for one used or ex display will be highly competitive, with hundreds of bidders. So I believe I will have to buy new.
THANKS,
IAN.

Can't go wrong with a Luxman. Wish I had one, wish I had £8k to spend on one....

 

[Al ears]

I'm surprised the Luxman only outputs an extra 50% into 4ohms - most well designed amps with a stable power supply will double their output when the impedance halves.

as usual their figures are conservative....

 

[Al ears]

You would think that, but I estimate about 75% of amps don't, or it is not even mentioned, hence the requirements for measurements when reviewing is of vital importance.

Bill

Implying the Luxman isn't well designed might be an indication he doesn't stock them.... 🙂
In fact reviews of the 507z show 110 into 8ohm and 210 into 4ohm.....

 

[SenseiKofi]

Hello everybody.
It's something I know next to nothing about. I have the opportunity to purchase; NEAT ACOUSTIC ULTIMATUM XLS used speakers.
My problem is this; they are 6 ohms average, minimum 4 ohms. The amp I am currently suffering with is the YAMAHA as701.
Which is 8 ohms. the amp I will replace it with will also be 8 ohms. So here is my question (at last), are they compatible ?
or is it a no-no?
P.S. apologies to NOPIANO, whom I insulted some time ago, no excuses.
Thanks in advance,
IAN.

Uhm the Yamaha is stable down to 2 Ohms. So no, you're not suffering and your Yamaha is doing tremendously. Delivering 140W into 8 Ohms, 230W into 4 Ohm and 340W into 2 Ohm at 1% Max THD

Review - https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../yamaha-a-s701-stereo-amplifier-review.55211/

 

[ianrjones]

My speakers are B+W CT7.3 LCRS. They are a little bright. The amp is also a little bright. I really would like some more punch.
The medium plan is to power the B+W's with my old NAD 3200 bee. And power the NEAT's with the Yamaha. And run them similtaniously. It is rather complicated, but if you lived in a small grannie flat, above a guenuine granny, you may start to understand. Thanks for the input, and your research, it's all good.

 

[SenseiKofi]

My speakers are B+W CT7.3 LCRS. They are a little bright. The amp is also a little bright. I really would like some more punch.
The medium plan is to power the B+W's with my old NAD 3200 bee. And power the NEAT's with the Yamaha. And run them similtaniously. It is rather complicated, but if you lived in a small grannie flat, above a guenuine granny, you may start to understand. Thanks for the input, and your research, it's all good.

The amp isn't bright, the speaker is and the amp isn't hiding it from you. There's a difference.

The amp is neutral

 

[Al ears]

My speakers are B+W CT7.3 LCRS. They are a little bright. The amp is also a little bright. I really would like some more punch.
The medium plan is to power the B+W's with my old NAD 3200 bee. And power the NEAT's with the Yamaha. And run them similtaniously. It is rather complicated, but if you lived in a small grannie flat, above a guenuine granny, you may start to understand. Thanks for the input, and your research, it's all good.

It's the "run them simultaneously" that seriously worries me.
Why?

 

[ianrjones]

Some people buy high end speakers, with a dozen drivers. That reach from the floor up to the ceiling. And some folk dream of sitting there bombarded by sound, like it was meant to be this way. Now imagine finding space in a small flat with room for bookshelf speakers, one peeping over the T.V. and one too close to the TT. I have to be realistic, yes a large room is just sweet, but I don't have one. But I do want the best sound I can achieve in this cell. This is my goal.
Bye the way, I did buy the NEAT speakers and they will be peeping over the T.V. soon.

 

[davidf]

Implying the Luxman isn't well designed might be an indication he doesn't stock them.... 🙂
In fact reviews of the 507z show 110 into 8ohm and 210 into 4ohm.....

I wasn't implying anything.

The usual forum problem - more than one way to read a statement. Re-read it without the negative head on.

 

[ianrjones]

I did not want to start an argument, I respect you all. And I am privileged to talk to you. You know my plan, and I will respond in time, how I am getting along. Who knows, I may be tearing my hair out, and screaming. Or I may tell you, that you should do this too! It's all in the ears, or perhaps all in the head.
IAN.

 

[nopiano]

P.S. apologies to NOPIANO, whom I insulted some time ago, no excuses.

I don’t recall, however I appreciate the gesture. 🙂

 

[Al ears]

I don’t recall, however I appreciate the gesture. 🙂

That's the spirit!