I'm happy to point out that I don't know a great deal about broadband packages though I have researched it only recently since moving into a new flat and not one of the deals had a limit or a fair use whatsumedosit. Don't forget this is not bandwidth for everyone, it is for a limited bunch of people such as ourselves, I think these forums overshadow what a minute bunch we are. Same bandwidth is being used for HD video streaming/downloading. I don't think LL audio downloads are a problem somehow.
Octopo:I'm happy to point out that I don't know a great deal about broadband packages though I have researched it only recently since moving into a new flat and not one of the deals had a limit or a fair use whatsumedosit. Don't forget this is not bandwidth for everyone, it is for a limited bunch of people such as ourselves, I think these forums overshadow what a minute bunch we are. Same bandwidth is being used for HD video streaming/downloading. I don't think LL audio downloads are a problem somehow.
I think you'll find a clause buried somewhere in most contracts about an acceptable use policy.
"They" all have one - simply because bandwidth remains such an issue with many ISP's.
It's costly, unless you happen to be a tier 1 provider and have access to 'dark fiber' etc, etc..
As I pointed out in a previous post - streaming is a completely different issue, and is handled by multicast which does conserve quite a bit if bandwidth for those ISP's that can support it.
Downloads however, consume much, much more bandwidth.
I think you'll find a clause buried somewhere in most contracts about an acceptable use policy.
"They" all have one - simply because bandwidth remains such an issue with many ISP's.
It's costly, unless you happen to be a tier 1 provider and have access to 'dark fiber' etc, etc..
As I pointed out in a previous post - streaming is a completely different issue, and is handled by multicast which does conserve quite a bit if bandwidth for those ISP's that can support it.
Downloads however, consume much, much more bandwidth.
Very few of us have 'high speed' streaming on our broadband.
Mine is at 7.2mb through BT lines run by Vodafone, so I can watch (wirelessly) TV on my laptop in any room in the house. More and more people are watching TV off the Internet which is putting a strain on bandwidth with the ISP's.
Downloading music at high bit rates is much less of a problem for them as not many people do it, most do it for MP3 players.
We are a very small bunch who have a high quality music/AV system.
Hence why the number of dealers is so limited. The main market for music it seems is in MP3, Docking stations/DAC, Amp, Speaker combinations. Flexibility, music on the move, acceptable quality, not too expensive, fashionable are what's important nowadays.
Mine is at 7.2mb through BT lines run by Vodafone, so I can watch (wirelessly) TV on my laptop in any room in the house. More and more people are watching TV off the Internet which is putting a strain on bandwidth with the ISP's.
Downloading music at high bit rates is much less of a problem for them as not many people do it, most do it for MP3 players.
We are a very small bunch who have a high quality music/AV system.
Hence why the number of dealers is so limited. The main market for music it seems is in MP3, Docking stations/DAC, Amp, Speaker combinations. Flexibility, music on the move, acceptable quality, not too expensive, fashionable are what's important nowadays.
trevor79:.... More and more people are watching TV off the Internet which is putting a strain on bandwidth with the ISP's.
Indeed it is.
I manage the network of a small business (70 staff) and we have a 2 m/bit connection provided by a tier 1 ISP (we have a 100m/bit fiber straight into their backbone - the internet speed is limited to 2 m/bit). During the olympics, several staff members decided to watch the BBC live feeds, which caused me quite a few headaches as our internet connection ground to a halt....
Although 2 m/bit probably sounds small compared to your 7.2m/bit (probably "Up to" 8 m/bit) it is actually not much slower...
Indeed it is.
I manage the network of a small business (70 staff) and we have a 2 m/bit connection provided by a tier 1 ISP (we have a 100m/bit fiber straight into their backbone - the internet speed is limited to 2 m/bit). During the olympics, several staff members decided to watch the BBC live feeds, which caused me quite a few headaches as our internet connection ground to a halt....
Although 2 m/bit probably sounds small compared to your 7.2m/bit (probably "Up to" 8 m/bit) it is actually not much slower...
Yes Tony, we still have some catching up to do in the UK when it comes to bandwidth.
For instance France has been running fibre optic high speed broadband for many years into homes throughout most of the country.
So the telephone, TV's, Music, Internet are run multi room off the feed in many houses, and it is not expensive either.
BT have much to answer for on draging there heels over many years on this.
Here is an interesting read, writen 18months ago!
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,495369,00.html
For instance France has been running fibre optic high speed broadband for many years into homes throughout most of the country.
So the telephone, TV's, Music, Internet are run multi room off the feed in many houses, and it is not expensive either.
BT have much to answer for on draging there heels over many years on this.
Here is an interesting read, writen 18months ago!
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,495369,00.html
manicm
Well-known member
chebby:What is a download limit? So very late 1990s 
I'll give you an idea Chebby, my country has the most expensive ICT costs in the world. I'm paying the equivalent of 20 pounds per month for a 2Gb cap.
That is patently not funny, as we have a monopoly and cartel of one here for broadband. And I use the latter term very loosely as far as speeds go.
I'll give you an idea Chebby, my country has the most expensive ICT costs in the world. I'm paying the equivalent of 20 pounds per month for a 2Gb cap.
That is patently not funny, as we have a monopoly and cartel of one here for broadband. And I use the latter term very loosely as far as speeds go.
I read this and thought about just how many laptops and pcs me and my family have been through. I admit that a pc or laptop will play the same quality of music over and over faultlessly, but what happens when your hard drive fails or you get a virus. Its happened to me, i lost all of my university work at the start of my third year and all of my music that i had downloaded and ripped to hard drive. I had a back up on a second drive, but that was infected too at the same time.
Personally i like putting the cd in and enjoying the music. Having to boot up a pc and fiddle about with a mouse and keyboard for me, takes the feeling away of hifi, but i respect that different people have different preferences.
Personally i like putting the cd in and enjoying the music. Having to boot up a pc and fiddle about with a mouse and keyboard for me, takes the feeling away of hifi, but i respect that different people have different preferences.
JonAJon:
I read this and thought about just how many laptops and pcs me and my family have been through. I admit that a pc or laptop will play the same quality of music over and over faultlessly, but what happens when your hard drive fails or you get a virus. Its happened to me, i lost all of my university work at the start of my third year and all of my music that i had downloaded and ripped to hard drive. I had a back up on a second drive, but that was infected too at the same time.
Personally i like putting the cd in and enjoying the music. Having to boot up a pc and fiddle about with a mouse and keyboard for me, takes the feeling away of hifi, but i respect that different people have different preferences.
I'm struggling to be sympathetic here.....if you have gigs of data on a HDD you'd be well advised to back it up. I have two backups of my HDD. And while it will save me a lot of effort ripping CDs should my main HDD fail, it hopefully ensures that my photos and videos are not lost forever.
I read this and thought about just how many laptops and pcs me and my family have been through. I admit that a pc or laptop will play the same quality of music over and over faultlessly, but what happens when your hard drive fails or you get a virus. Its happened to me, i lost all of my university work at the start of my third year and all of my music that i had downloaded and ripped to hard drive. I had a back up on a second drive, but that was infected too at the same time.
Personally i like putting the cd in and enjoying the music. Having to boot up a pc and fiddle about with a mouse and keyboard for me, takes the feeling away of hifi, but i respect that different people have different preferences.
I'm struggling to be sympathetic here.....if you have gigs of data on a HDD you'd be well advised to back it up. I have two backups of my HDD. And while it will save me a lot of effort ripping CDs should my main HDD fail, it hopefully ensures that my photos and videos are not lost forever.
Tony_R:
Octopo:I'm happy to point out that I don't know a great deal about broadband packages though I have researched it only recently since moving into a new flat and not one of the deals had a limit or a fair use whatsumedosit. Don't forget this is not bandwidth for everyone, it is for a limited bunch of people such as ourselves, I think these forums overshadow what a minute bunch we are. Same bandwidth is being used for HD video streaming/downloading. I don't think LL audio downloads are a problem somehow.
Downloads however, consume much, much more bandwidth.
You've highlighted my lack of knowledge of such things though I think my original point stands before we got sidetracked. Forget streaming, HD movies are readily available for download and are not only larger file sizes, they are also infinitely more popular than lossless audio will be over the coming years. Once the demand is there, the cost of the music to the customer will easily pay for cost of providing the service.
It is not bandwidth or 'fair use policies' that are holding it back - it is demand.
Octopo:I'm happy to point out that I don't know a great deal about broadband packages though I have researched it only recently since moving into a new flat and not one of the deals had a limit or a fair use whatsumedosit. Don't forget this is not bandwidth for everyone, it is for a limited bunch of people such as ourselves, I think these forums overshadow what a minute bunch we are. Same bandwidth is being used for HD video streaming/downloading. I don't think LL audio downloads are a problem somehow.
Downloads however, consume much, much more bandwidth.
You've highlighted my lack of knowledge of such things though I think my original point stands before we got sidetracked. Forget streaming, HD movies are readily available for download and are not only larger file sizes, they are also infinitely more popular than lossless audio will be over the coming years. Once the demand is there, the cost of the music to the customer will easily pay for cost of providing the service.
It is not bandwidth or 'fair use policies' that are holding it back - it is demand.
Sorry Octopo, for once I have to disagree. It is the infrastructure. I can already imagine the bit rate arms race of the future, with the like of iTunes, Nokia and Amazon competing for punters.
For now, it's just not do-able. Everyone's too impatient!
Movies? Well there's little choice. I understand that movies downloaded to the XBox provide the option to start playing them once a big portion of the file has been downloaded.....so you don't necessarily notice the hours it takes to download.
For now, it's just not do-able. Everyone's too impatient!
Movies? Well there's little choice. I understand that movies downloaded to the XBox provide the option to start playing them once a big portion of the file has been downloaded.....so you don't necessarily notice the hours it takes to download.
PJPro:Sorry Octopo, for once I have to disagree. It is the infrastructure. I can already imagine the bit rate arms race of the future, with the like of iTunes, Nokia and Amazon competing for punters.
OK maybe I'm wrong (holds head in hands) - but hanging onto a thread this was kind of my point. I doubt the likes of iTunes, Nokia and Amazon will be competing for that kind of market. All I'm saying is a few more sites like the Linn one which offer a more diverse and widespread selection of lossless audio is not out of the question.
OK maybe I'm wrong (holds head in hands) - but hanging onto a thread this was kind of my point. I doubt the likes of iTunes, Nokia and Amazon will be competing for that kind of market. All I'm saying is a few more sites like the Linn one which offer a more diverse and widespread selection of lossless audio is not out of the question.
John Duncan
Well-known member
chebby
Well-known member
JohnDuncan:Google "iplayer bandwidth"...
I googled.
So two of the worst ISPs in the country were complaining about bandwidth usage rather than doing something about it. What a suprise!
Seems BT need to sit at the feet of the French and re-learn comms provision.
I have cable. Since moving across to cable some 20 months ago we have had one (3 hour) outage due to a name server crashing. The provider started dealing with it immediately and our phone call to their helpdesk was answered quickly and frankly with their admission of a problem and steps they were taking to fix it. Needless to say the phone call was free.
BT would have added something to the bill just for the impertinence of calling them and Tiscali would have blamed your printer/scanner/keyboard/lightbulbs/cat (after you had been waiting on hold for 3 hours!). They told me once that internet connections are more 'unstable' if using a Mac. Idiots.
I googled.
So two of the worst ISPs in the country were complaining about bandwidth usage rather than doing something about it. What a suprise!
Seems BT need to sit at the feet of the French and re-learn comms provision.
I have cable. Since moving across to cable some 20 months ago we have had one (3 hour) outage due to a name server crashing. The provider started dealing with it immediately and our phone call to their helpdesk was answered quickly and frankly with their admission of a problem and steps they were taking to fix it. Needless to say the phone call was free.
BT would have added something to the bill just for the impertinence of calling them and Tiscali would have blamed your printer/scanner/keyboard/lightbulbs/cat (after you had been waiting on hold for 3 hours!). They told me once that internet connections are more 'unstable' if using a Mac. Idiots.
Well, my service has been truly excellent. No complaints whatsoever (I'm gonna regret saying that) other than it's soooooo slow when downloading big files, like the odd .flac eg The Slip.
PJPro:JonAJon:
I read this and thought about just how many laptops and pcs me and my family have been through. I admit that a pc or laptop will play the same quality of music over and over faultlessly, but what happens when your hard drive fails or you get a virus. Its happened to me, i lost all of my university work at the start of my third year and all of my music that i had downloaded and ripped to hard drive. I had a back up on a second drive, but that was infected too at the same time.
Personally i like putting the cd in and enjoying the music. Having to boot up a pc and fiddle about with a mouse and keyboard for me, takes the feeling away of hifi, but i respect that different people have different preferences.
I'm struggling to be sympathetic here.....if you have gigs of data on a HDD you'd be well advised to back it up. I have two backups of my HDD. And while it will save me a lot of effort ripping CDs should my main HDD fail, it hopefully ensures that my photos and videos are not lost forever.
Yeah, i wasnt looking for sympathy lol. Thing is i had done the back up route, it wasnt my hard drive that failed that time, it was a virus that had planted itself, so ofcourse when i backed up to a second drive, it was copied accross and corrupted all the date over time, i have a good anti virus but it slipped past. Im not slamming pc audio, its certainly a lot more convenient for those who leave their pc on, but just saying that i dont want to take the chance converting all my cds to lossless.
I read this and thought about just how many laptops and pcs me and my family have been through. I admit that a pc or laptop will play the same quality of music over and over faultlessly, but what happens when your hard drive fails or you get a virus. Its happened to me, i lost all of my university work at the start of my third year and all of my music that i had downloaded and ripped to hard drive. I had a back up on a second drive, but that was infected too at the same time.
Personally i like putting the cd in and enjoying the music. Having to boot up a pc and fiddle about with a mouse and keyboard for me, takes the feeling away of hifi, but i respect that different people have different preferences.
I'm struggling to be sympathetic here.....if you have gigs of data on a HDD you'd be well advised to back it up. I have two backups of my HDD. And while it will save me a lot of effort ripping CDs should my main HDD fail, it hopefully ensures that my photos and videos are not lost forever.
Yeah, i wasnt looking for sympathy lol. Thing is i had done the back up route, it wasnt my hard drive that failed that time, it was a virus that had planted itself, so ofcourse when i backed up to a second drive, it was copied accross and corrupted all the date over time, i have a good anti virus but it slipped past. Im not slamming pc audio, its certainly a lot more convenient for those who leave their pc on, but just saying that i dont want to take the chance converting all my cds to lossless.
Just curious as I do not at present download music(but never say never!)... but do some download sites have bargain downloads and do you have to shop around?.
What got me thinking was being able to buy a cd copy of norah jones albums off amazon inc postage for under £2.50. Do the costs of downloads stay the same or do some sort of become "old stock" not current and subsequently cheap although common sense says that these sites do not need to get rid of old stock.
Is this the one thing in favour of cd?.....I have in the past bought brilliant albums from charity shops and on one occaision came out of one in xxxxxxx(sorry c'ant tell you where ...have to protect my source!) with 6 albums all excellent for under £10 ! . What I can say is it was near an american service base and I can only assume that was the orriginal source as they all on checking were only available as imports from america.
Has anybody out there ever managed to buy a download from a charity shop?
What got me thinking was being able to buy a cd copy of norah jones albums off amazon inc postage for under £2.50. Do the costs of downloads stay the same or do some sort of become "old stock" not current and subsequently cheap although common sense says that these sites do not need to get rid of old stock.
Is this the one thing in favour of cd?.....I have in the past bought brilliant albums from charity shops and on one occaision came out of one in xxxxxxx(sorry c'ant tell you where ...have to protect my source!) with 6 albums all excellent for under £10 ! . What I can say is it was near an american service base and I can only assume that was the orriginal source as they all on checking were only available as imports from america.
Has anybody out there ever managed to buy a download from a charity shop?
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