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I like my system but rock music sounds less than ideal, any thoughts?

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Anonymous

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chebby:
basshead: the vast majourity of people in this country listen to rock music, surely a system that can not play the most common form of music is simply no good?

Eh?

Where does the evidence for that come from? I would be interested to know.

Record sales?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I think we should distinguish various types of rock as well - Things like U2, Soundgarden, Aerosmith, Radiohead sounds great on my system - but poor recordings (punk rock - like Offspring) sound awful at moderate volumes. These records sounded awful on my old JVC system, too. Problem is, with Offspring for example, you get ton on MF sound but not much treble and not much bass, relatively speaking. Turning volume up you get tired of the mids (the guy screaming). I used to use Winamp's equaliser for some rock music to tone down MF range and bump up the treble and the bass and it made it very listenable.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
With respect, that's a misconception, that's nothing to do with the genre, that is just a poorly produced piece, for example heavy rock such as Disturbed sounds excellent on my BR2/NAD C352 combo, as does Green Day, albeit their first album was poorly produced.
 

basshead

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radio listening figures say nothing, record sales are far more revealing, and clearly show that rock is the dominant genre in the uk.
 

chebby

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basshead:
radio listening figures say nothing, record sales are far more revealing, and clearly show that rock is the dominant genre in the uk.

Could you provide your source of evidence for that please? The best evidence I can find (so far) is that in the period ending 2005, 36 percent of all CD titles sold were loosely categorised as 'rock'. (Although that makes Rock a favourite genre it also means 64 percent of CD sales in 2005 were something other than rock so "vast majority" is still questionable.)

Also iTunes is now the world's largest music retailer (CDs have been declining for a few years now) so perhaps all these stats need to be re-thought out.
 
T

the record spot

Guest
Jan Hibma:

I think it's to do because of the synergy (or lack there-of) between my speakers and Marantz stuff, but I'm not sure. Does anyone have any ideas?

Your kit's excellent so I'd leave those well alone; they're not the problem, moreso if you enjoy what they do with the other music you listen to.

I find Marantz are great all-rounders (which is what good hifi should be IMO) and believe the fault isn't your equipment, but the stuff you're playing on it! I like rock too, listen to a stack of it, but experience of late is too much of it is poorly produced, badly mastered and generally compressed to within an inch of its life.

Good discs aren't hard to find, but I suggest you could *** over to the Steve Hoffman forums and sign up there. Sometimes it can get a bit nerdy but generally, there's a wealth of information and helpful souls who will point you in the direction of good recordings. A few get hung up on first edition Japanese black triangle discs, but don't let that put you off.

Suggestion: if you can find one, get a first pressing CD of Metallica's Black Album - I've got this and play it on Marantz kit which is pretty revealing. It does a fine job. Failing that, get a hold of Yes' "Drama" album - NOT the one which is expanded with extra tracks, but the 1994 remaster (it should say at the top of the back cover "Digitally Remastered By Joe Gastwirt at Ocean View Digital" - sounds great, as do a lot of his discs.

There's plenty to find out there, but depending on what you're tastes are, you might find a lot to like and...on the other hand, you may struggle to get a "good" recording (especially newer acts if the recording process isn't sympathetic). By good, I mean more in line with what you'd like music to sound like, rather than what the record companies think sounds good. There's a mile wide gap on that score.

Depending on your budget, I'd look to some speakers more in line with what the Marantz gear can take (and they'll take some good boxes). Great kit though. You're right to stick with it.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
chebby:basshead:

radio listening figures say nothing, record sales are far more revealing, and clearly show that rock is the dominant genre in the uk.

Could you provide your source of evidence for that please? The best evidence I can find (so far) is that in the period ending 2005, 36 percent of all CD titles sold were loosely categorised as 'rock'. (Although that makes Rock a favourite genre it also means 64 percent of CD sales in 2005 were something other than rock so "vast majority" is still questionable.)

Also iTunes is now the world's largest music retailer (CDs have been declining for a few years now) so perhaps all these stats need to be re-thought out.

Its quite obvious that Rock is the dominent genre not just in the UK but probably the world as well.

Biggest selling artist of last year = Coldplay ( with AC/DC and Metallica make 3 out of the top 5)

Biggest selling artist of all time = The Beatles

Biggest grossing tour of all time = The Rolling Stones

You could probably go on and on with these stats but i think you get the point.
 

basshead

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mabe the term 'majority' was the wrong one to use, i guess with so many genres out there no one genre alone could sell more than the others combined. but rock is without a doubt the biggest selling genre in the uk and most of the western world.

my sources of evidence are the 'digital music servey 2008/2009' by 'entertainmentmediaresearch' and the 'recording music in numbers 2008' research by 'ifpi'. both these publications are available through my university research databases.
 

matengawhat

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2007
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the original poster from memory has since changed his speakers so hopefully he is far happy now - with regards to music i had the same problem - rock sounded poor but then i think its more down to the recordings themselves rather than the genre for example Ash sounds really poor high frequencies all over the place, suede gets a little high at times, Alanis morrisette bright but then other things Kings of Leon, Pink floyd ect sound amazing.

just the way it is - shame that music produces don't learn that loud isn't what we want.
 

idc

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Jan 2, 2008
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Ash's debute album 1977 got my vote as the worst recorded album.

With regards to rock music, so many genres get lumped into rock it is no surprise it comes out top. If you start to divide rock up with progessive (Pink Floyd), hard (Led Zeppelin), soft (Kansas) , heavy metal (AC/DC) , goth (The Mission), indie (Kasabian) and then the overlaps with crossover bands such as Primal Scream and Depeche Mode, rock no longer appears so dominant.
 

chebby

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Lots of things are 'obvious' until shown otherwise. (Weekly church attendance still outstrips weekly attendance at football matches for instance, despite declining numbers in the Anglican church.)

I like some 'rock music' (that description is in desperate need of definition) so no axe to grind here. Just don't like groundless assumptions. I am sure just as many people love Soul, Funk, Reggae, R&B (both sorts), Dance, Trance and countless other genres and sub-genres and overlaps that would be very difficult to cram into the 'rock' category.

'Radio does not count'. Why not? Over 45 million people (RAJAR only count people over 15 so probably a lot more) listen every day. Do at least 45 million put on a CD every day? The stats for radio listeners is rising and the numbers buying CDs are declining. can't just dismiss a nationally popular medium (with growing reach via DAB and internet) based on a hunch or on your own listening tastes or a 'feeling'.

I may well be wrong. (And I don't mind being wrong.) I just want some evidence to go on so I can amend my own assumptions if necessary.

10 years ago the biggest buyers of CDs were middle aged men in cities on their lunch-breaks. They would typically buy £40 - £50 worth at a time. They became known as "50 quid bloke" and were seen for a while as the 'saviour' of the CD trade. Nowadays it is more likely to be "£7.95 Mum" buying CDs from the suprmarket. (Kids are all at home on computers - well off any industry 'radar' - downloading and making their own new markets.)
 

basshead

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i think the problem is that producers have to make music that will sound good on the average listeners system. the average listener isn't doing so on a good 'hi-fi', that is why producers (all the ones i know anyway) test their products in typical car systems, as that is where a lot of music is listened to.

producers are not tring to make a record that sounds good on the best system, but one that will sound good on the worse system. maybe it's not possible to do both?
 

idc

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I think it is more down to some producers being better than others, some recording studios being better than others and the demands and budget of the band. For example, Neil Young and Horse on Ragged Glory, that sounds like it was recorded in a shed with the band playing live and in one take, which is probably what they intended. Punk bands were not exactly know for their concern over recording standards. However there are exceptions such as the Clash with London Calling and the Damned on their debute, which was produced by Nick Mason, drummer with Pink Floyd, who were notorious for their exacting recording standards. I suspect how drunk/high/hungover the band were at the time also has had an impact.
 

Andrew Everard

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Villain2100:Its quite obvious that Rock is the dominent genre...

Biggest selling artist of last year = Coldplay

Does not compute! Does not compute!

 

basshead

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over 40million radio listeners per day? really? the uk population is 60 million, RAJAR does not count under 15's (which make up 20% of the poultaion) so that leaves 48 million. i find it hard to beleive that over 80% of the adult population are listening to radio everyday. but if that's what the figures say (and are collected in an accurate way) then i guess it must be so. but i find it very suprising my self
 

chebby

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I realised my mistake and amended it to the correct figure of 45 million. Sorry. (That is the audience for All Radio)

50 million (over 15s) and 45 million of them listen to radio. (Dec 2008 RAJAR figures).

The average (over 3 months) hours of radio per listener is 22.3 hours.

If CD manufacturers were selling 88 hours worth of CDs to every one of 45 million people per year in the UK then you could fairly call CD listening the dominant media.

Hopefully someone else can find out if CD sales match/exceed radio or not.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Interesting... does this mean that 'proper' hifi is going to suit classical? I listen to classical mostly but whenever I go into a hifi store and say this the response I get is usually a big sigh and sudden loss of interest from the sales staff!
 

Gerrardasnails

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Sep 6, 2007
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matengawhat:this is also the only area im not entirely happy with - my system sound great with most things but some slighty heavier stuff just sounds a little thin with instruments although vocals are loud and clear - prob not best example but was listening to Ash's 1977 and just had to turn it off as was just horrible and bright

I was playing that very album at the weekend but not too loud. It couldn't have sounded bad (I'd had a few!) because I was thinking, wow they made some great tracks on that record.
 

Gerrardasnails

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Sep 6, 2007
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chainrock:I think we should distinguish various types of rock as well - Things like U2, Soundgarden, Aerosmith, Radiohead sounds great on my system - but poor recordings (punk rock - like Offspring) sound awful at moderate volumes. These records sounded awful on my old JVC system, too. Problem is, with Offspring for example, you get ton on MF sound but not much treble and not much bass, relatively speaking. Turning volume up you get tired of the mids (the guy screaming). I used to use Winamp's equaliser for some rock music to tone down MF range and bump up the treble and the bass and it made it very listenable.

Radiohead sounds great on any system!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
chebby:

I like some 'rock music' (that description is in desperate need of definition)

Well I rightly or wrongly have always defined Rock music as guitar based music or guitar based bands and that's what I go on.
 

chebby

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Jun 2, 2008
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Villain2100:chebby:

I like some 'rock music' (that description is in desperate need of definition)

Well I rightly or wrongly have always defined Rock music as guitar based music or guitar based bands and that's what I go on.
 

idc

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Jan 2, 2008
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chambem1:

Interesting... does this mean that 'proper' hifi is going to suit classical? I listen to classical mostly but whenever I go into a hifi store and say this the response I get is usually a big sigh and sudden loss of interest from the sales staff!

I think that classical musicians and conductors tend (note tend, not always) to spend more time and energy ensuring the quality of sound and accoustics of where they perform and record, hence it will sound better on any system. Just a thought chambern1, are you unintentionally coming over as a classical music snob if you are managing to loose sales staff interest?
 

Andrew Everard

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Villain2100:Well I rightly or wrongly have always defined Rock music as guitar based music or guitar based bands and that's what I go on.

 

idc

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chebby:Villain2100:chebby:

I like some 'rock music' (that description is in desperate need of definition)

Well I rightly or wrongly have always defined Rock music as guitar based music or guitar based bands and that's what I go on.



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