How to meassure back wall speakers? Help!

[rendu]

Hello, I have purchased new back dipoles and yesterday I was trying to re-balance the delay settings.

The doubt that I have is about the correct way to meassure the distance from the listening possition. My sofa is right against the wall where the speakers are placed. Each speaker is placed about 30 cm above each corner of the sofa. From the center of the sofa to each speaker there is a distance of 1,5 meter more or less. From my listening position (right corner) there is a distance of 30 cm (I can almost touch the speaker). I would like to define a reasonable setting that would work for any listening possition in the sofa.

What would be the right setting? 1,5 metter? Even thought the sofa is right agains the wall where the speakers are placed?

/sites/whathifi.com/files/images/Imagen0203.jpg

 

[aliEnRIK]

Its impossible to set correctly for everyone

Id set at 1.5m and see how you get on. if you feel its not right for people on the ends then increase the range (2m say)

 

[rendu]

Its impossible to set correctly for everyone

Id set at 1.5m and see how you get on. if you feel its not right for people on the ends then increase the range (2m say)

The doubt that I had was really more between 1,5m or 30cm, or even 0cm.

1,5 will be the greatest distance from any possible place in the sofa. However, if I set to 1,5 I have the feeling that the system will increase the volume, thinking that the speakers are 1,5 m behind the sofa, when in reality the sofa is almost touching them.

This way of old AV amps to meassure distance is really bad because it does not have all the paremeters required for a triangulation of the listener`s possition. You can not define a triangulization unless you could also enter the distance between the 2 speakers first.

 

[The_Lhc]

It's the distance to the listening position, not to the edges of the sofa, define for yourself if you're not worried about anyone else (Why aren't you sitting in the middle of the sofa anyway?).

 

[Andrew Everard]

Changing the distance setting merely affects the delay: the less the distance set, the greater the delay. I'd suggest that with the speakers so close, setting the distance to a greater setting will merely make the rear speakers sound more obvious, as the delay will be decreased.

I'd measure the distance to the speaker from the centre of the sofa, and use that as a maximum setting, but be prepared to decrease the distance to even less. It looks like about 1m maximum, so use that as a start and be prepared to set the delay to even less if you don't get a sufficiently diffuse rear effect.

Also wind down the level of the rear speakers rather more than you might expect, as this will also stop them dominating matters.

BTW, are these the rear speakers in a 5.1-channel system, or a 7.1?

 

[scene]

The distance for speakers is supposed to be (IIRC) the distance from the tweeter to the centre of the listener's head. So height above/below average head position makes a difference, especially on rear speakers placed near a sofa - like they were in my old house.

If you're listening to m/c music, then the recomendation is to place the rear speakers near ear level. For AV (movies), place them high. If you're mainly listening to movies, and as they're dipoles, I'd be tempted to try the speakers MUCH higher on the wall, maybe right up near the ceiling.

 

[rendu]

Changing the distance setting merely affects the delay: the less the distance set, the greater the delay. I'd suggest that with the speakers so close, setting the distance to a greater setting will merely make the rear speakers sound more obvious, as the delay will be decreased.

I'd measure the distance to the speaker from the centre of the sofa, and use that as a maximum setting, but be prepared to decrease the distance to even less. It looks like about 1m maximum, so use that as a start and be prepared to set the delay to even less if you don't get a sufficiently diffuse rear effect.

Also wind down the level of the rear speakers rather more than you might expect, as this will also stop them dominating matters.

BTW, are these the rear speakers in a 5.1-channel system, or a 7.1?

Thanks very much for the tips. That was exactly what I noticed when I put more than 1m, the speaker becames even more present, dominating too much. These DFS already sound bigger/louder than my previous 9SR but I did not know whether this was normal and it was just what I was missing before. However, I believe that they are just over-dominating so, I will probably set the level down also to -2db. So, based on recomendations I will leave the final starting point at 1m and - 2db.

This is a 5.1 setting, unfortunatelly I do not have room or walls for a 7.1.

 

[rendu]

The distance for speakers is supposed to be (IIRC) the distance from the tweeter to the centre of the listener's head. So height above/below average head position makes a difference, especially on rear speakers placed near a sofa - like they were in my old house.

If you're listening to m/c music, then the recomendation is to place the rear speakers near ear level. For AV (movies), place them high. If you're mainly listening to movies, and as they're dipoles, I'd be tempted to try the speakers MUCH higher on the wall, maybe right up near the ceiling.

Thanks Scene, I use both for music and movies so this is why I tried to place them at an medium high. I believe that if I was to do it again, I would probably place them a bit higher but unfortunately, the holes are already made now.....

 

[rendu]

It's the distance to the listening position, not to the edges of the sofa, define for yourself if you're not worried about anyone else (Why aren't you sitting in the middle of the sofa anyway?).

Well, normally I am not the only one watching a movie... some times I have girlfriend, mistress, friends, family, dog, ... etc

. Therefore I believe that the correct setting for a home cinema has to take this into account. There is not a single listening possition... you have to balance.

 

[duaplex]

Thats the ideal position you have in the picture and the advice above is good.

My Diapoles are set in the top corners of my room about 4ft above my head and angled down to fire above my head (so it simulates the 2ft ideal above head position). Like you im also against the wall. But i opted for the side corners.

Of course ideally they say 2ft in from the back wall and have them firing 2ft above your head on the sidea walls. I am always in a dilemma whether to move them like yours. But they sound sweet so far.

 

[duaplex]

The distance for speakers is supposed to be (IIRC) the distance from the tweeter to the centre of the listener's head. So height above/below average head position makes a difference, especially on rear speakers placed near a sofa - like they were in my old house.

If you're listening to m/c music, then the recomendation is to place the rear speakers near ear level. For AV (movies), place them high. If you're mainly listening to movies, and as they're dipoles, I'd be tempted to try the speakers MUCH higher on the wall, maybe right up near the ceiling.

Thanks Scene, I use both for music and movies so this is why I tried to place them at an medium high. I believe that if I was to do it again, I would probably place them a bit higher but unfortunately, the holes are already made now.....

Mine are up in the top corners of the room flush against the back wall and angled down slightly, produces very good sound. So im with you on that one. Of course the dilemma is, do i move them maybe 2ft in from the back wall, this will place them slightly ahead of me on the sofa or just in line if i sit forward a little. I am told it wont make a difference.

Ahh the dipole woes

 

[Andrew Everard]

This is a 5.1 setting, unfortunatelly I do not have room or walls for a 7.1.

Ah right: the reason I asked is that in a 5.1 system those speakers should really be on the side walls, not the rear...

 

[rendu]

This is a 5.1 setting, unfortunatelly I do not have room or walls for a 7.1.

Ah right: the reason I asked is that in a 5.1 system those speakers should really be on the side walls, not the rear...

Andrew now I am a bit lost. I bought the dipoles because I thougth that in order to get a good cinema effect you either had to place normal speakers on the side (which I can not do) or alternatively dipoles on the back (which will bang against walls to get the effect).

If I only have the choice to place them on the back wall, do you mean then that I was better off with the previous 9SR than with the dipoles? Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Andrew now I am a bit lost. I bought the dipoles because I thougth that in order to get a good cinema effect you either had to place normal speakers on the side (which I can not do) or alternatively dipoles on the back (which will bang against walls to get the effect).

If I only have the choice to place them on the back wall, do you mean then that I was better off with the previous 9SR than with the dipoles? Thanks for clarifying.

No, the dipoles will be OK on the rear wall, though sitting very close to one of them and a distance from the other will kind of negate the effect they are designed to achieve, which is an even spread of sound to both sides of their enclosures. In fact, you'll really only be hearing the 'inner' driver of each speaker, so they'll effectively be acting as a monopole speaker.

The ideal location of such speakers is to the side of the listener, with the centre of the speaker in line with the listening position, and the dipole driver array spreading sound out along the wall, both rearwards to the point where it meets the rear wall and forward to fill in the 'gap' between the front and rear effects.

 

[rendu]

Andrew now I am a bit lost. I bought the dipoles because I thougth that in order to get a good cinema effect you either had to place normal speakers on the side (which I can not do) or alternatively dipoles on the back (which will bang against walls to get the effect).

If I only have the choice to place them on the back wall, do you mean then that I was better off with the previous 9SR than with the dipoles? Thanks for clarifying.

No, the dipoles will be OK on the rear wall, though sitting very close to one of them and a distance from the other will kind of negate the effect they are designed to achieve, which is an even spread of sound to both sides of their enclosures. In fact, you'll really only be hearing the 'inner' driver of each speaker, so they'll effectively be acting as a monopole speaker.

The ideal location of such speakers is to the side of the listener, with the centre of the speaker in line with the listening position, and the dipole driver array spreading sound out along the wall, both rearwards to the point where it meets the rear wall and forward to fill in the 'gap' between the front and rear effects.

Yes, with the dipole on the back I was hoping to 1) get the effect with a better angle from the inner speakers (since they face to the sofa instead of the front as the previous 9SR and, 2) get some additional side effect from the outer speaker when it reflects from the wall and column that is right next to them.

From your description of how it should work I am really questioning whether I have the done right in spending the money on the dipoles. I have to do some more testing because I have only tried with one movie but maybe I try side by side with my previous 9SR. The other reason why I bought them which is still valid was to use the 9SR with my PC so, at least there is another reason.

Thanks for all your help.