How to make PMC GB1i sound less lean...

[admin_exported]

Hi all,

I am contemplating my experiences with these lovely speakers and like to hear your views!

I have a set of GB1i's which I strongly love for their detail, imaging and smooth bass but I do feel they lack slightly especially in mid presence, body and speed. All especially related to the midband, I know they don't have the same bass extension of larger speakers, but I don't care, I just wish the mids and highs could be more in balance as I feel the highs are too prominent helping imaging and rhytmic behavior but sometimes to slightly fatiguing level. Overall it gives the speakers a bright but also laid back character, if that makes sense?

Ok, now for the rest of the set, currently running with Arcam A70, CD73, atlas equator interlinks. They may not be in the same ballpark as the speakers and therefore a logic advise will be to upgrade, moreover as the rhytmic character of both may add to emphasising brightness. Any ideas on matching systems?

But I wonder if that will really fix the mid/high balance, since a Soundstage frequency response curve I found of the predecessor GB1 shows a dip from 1 to 4 kHz and than sloping back to peaks at 12 kHz, falling slightly again to 20 kHz. I believe the new tweeter especially added to high band smoothness, doubting whether it fixed the presence dip. Quite a different curve from the neutral Spendor s5e.

Anyway, I would like to hear your experiences with this speaker and system matching. Is it just me who finds them slightly bright and lean, I usually only read raving reviews about them..

 

[matthewpiano]

Get shot of the A70 amplifier. Its bass reproduction is appalling. Replacing it with something like a Roksan Kandy K2 amplifier will bring huge improvements to your sound and get a much firmer grip on the full tonal rnage of your speakers.

As always, you should audition any potential upgrades.

 

[matthewpiano]

Or alternatively try adding an Arcam power amp to your A70. JoelSim or DAN1979 would be ideal people to give you advice on this route.

 

[Anonymous]

I am so glad that I am not the only one who thinks this!

I recently auditioned a pair of the company's FB1's, and i found myself fidgeting in the sofa, hankering for more. we tried biamping the speakers, upgrading the speaker cable, all to no avail, so I personally put this dowmn to the transmission line system that PMC use in their speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

I am currently running Spendor S5es with Arcam 192 CD and Cyrus 8vs2 amp and find a similar sense of ill defined mid balance.

However, this could be due to the source and amp both being a little forward. Or a possible cause, still being investigated, is the environment in which it operates i.e. ceramic floor and plenty of hard surfaces (a negative of living in Spain).

The situation improved when I moved the speakers further into the listening area but then the wife complained they were in the way!

I know I dont have the PMCs, so feel ill equipped to give advise, but I too am wondering if I have poorly balanced equipment or an environmental crisis.

 

[Anonymous]

Placing speakers close to a rear wall can help add some mid bass but this can have very variable results and is usually a compromise. An alternative, and one that I've done for some time, is to use a sub. A decent sub can be set to crossover in such a way that it boosts the mid bass. It will add warmth, richness and power. You'll also benefit from some more low bass too and you can tune it precisely to the room and listening circumstances.

I would look to spending more than £400 as cheaper subs can be a little slow. An exception is apparently the MJ Acoustics unit that retails for £300; it's quite good at music!

Many immediately point out that the overall speaker cost would otherwise move you into more upmarket options. True. The extra sound you get, however, can work very well indeed and leaves options open to you.

Imagine the GB1s and the B&W PV1, amazing!

 

[drummerman]

Your speakers certainly need a better system. Try something along the lines of the previously mentioned Roksan's, Musical fidelity or a good valve amplifier, Puresound being one. That should solve the problem but I'd still add a good sub as per igglebert.

regards

 

[Anonymous]

thanks guys for your replies

clivej: they do sound slightly reserved or held back. I heard Audiovector k3 signatures the other day and found them much more neutral and faster, very good mids, maybe slightly less detail overall and less broad imaging..

nolaj56: never heard the spendor s5e, but would be interested to hear them, heard the s3e once and thought they were very neutral maybe lacking slightly in musical excitement

Anyone familiar to them care to compare both the Audiovectors, Spendors and PMC GB1i's?

I am not sure if I want to go the sub route, but may consider upgrading the amp. A few I may be interested to compare apart from the mentioned onces are the CA 840 (good power, maybe slightly dull?), Naim 5i (exciting but again possibly too much emphasis on rhythm/treble), Cyrus 8vs2. I believe Roksan can sound a touch bright as well?

Cheers

 

[plastic penguin]

Like matthew said, the A70 was a bit of a damp squib. However, Bi-amping an Arcam power amp will certainly give it the necessary boost - Arcam thrives with the additional amp.

 

[Anonymous]

Or use the tone controls...the Arcam's don't degrade the signal either, so there's no excuse to ignore them.

 

[Anonymous]

Hughes123:Or use the tone controls...the Arcam's don't degrade the signal either, so there's no excuse to ignore them.

sorry, no tone control on the A70, unlike on your A32. Not much a fan of tone control, although I might be tempted to try them...

 

[Anonymous]

Musicbox:
Hughes123:Or use the tone controls...the Arcam's don't degrade the signal either, so there's no excuse to ignore them.

sorry, no tone control on the A70, unlike on your A32. Not much a fan of tone control, although I might be tempted to try them...

Really? That's a new one on me - I thought that all Arcams had tone controls - seems a bit silly if they don't because they have a balance control. Anyways, perhaps you could try moving the speakers closer to the wall(s)?

 

[JoelSim]

Get a power amp. Oh and change the A70 whilst you're at it. My A85/P85 combo has fantastic mid range and is not lean at all. The A32/P35 combo can be bought for half price ish on eBay at the moment.

ÿ

 

[Dan Turner]

Yeah I agree with JoelSim here, having the A32/P35 combo driving PMCs myself (TB2+, which must be voiced similarly to yours), and the sound is anything but lean. Bi-amping really gives the grunt needed to make the most of the PMCs, and I think my set-up just sounds beautiful. However then you're going to need a new CD player IMO....that's the problem with splashing out on one really stand-out component - you can spend years and hundreds/thousands of pound seeking some kind of equilibrium. I've been there myself, I had the A32 and PMCs (purchased as original TB2s) for 6 years and never knew what they were capable of.

In the last year I've upgraded interconnects, speaker cables, equipment rack, speaker stands, upgraded speakers to '+' spec, and bought the P35 and a CD37 - now I'm happy with it and I think that everything is giving it's best in a well balanced system.

 

[Anonymous]

Hughes123:Musicbox:
Hughes123:Or use the tone controls...the Arcam's don't degrade the signal either, so there's no excuse to ignore them.

sorry, no tone control on the A70, unlike on your A32. Not much a fan of tone control, although I might be tempted to try them...

Really? That's a new one on me - I thought that all Arcams had tone controls - seems a bit silly if they don't because they have a balance control. Anyways, perhaps you could try moving the speakers closer to the wall(s)?

already pretty close to the wall at 30 cm (12 inch) from the back of the cabinet, although the sides are almost completely free

 

[Anonymous]

Dan Turner:
Yeah I agree with JoelSim here, having the A32/P35 combo driving PMCs myself (TB2+, which must be voiced similarly to yours), and the sound is anything but lean. Bi-amping really gives the grunt needed to make the most of the PMCs, and I think my set-up just sounds beautiful. However then you're going to need a new CD player IMO....that's the problem with splashing out on one really stand-out component - you can spend years and hundreds/thousands of pound seeking some kind of equilibrium. I've been there myself, I had the A32 and PMCs (purchased as original TB2s) for 6 years and never knew what they were capable of.

In the last year I've upgraded interconnects, speaker cables, equipment rack, speaker stands, upgraded speakers to '+' spec, and bought the P35 and a CD37 - now I'm happy with it and I think that everything is giving it's best in a well balanced system.

very intrigued by this biamping stuff especially at current end-of-line arcam prices, still not sure if I get it completely as I would think a powerfull enough amp like the A85 or A32 should be able to handle the speaker sufficiently by it self in a medium sized room, right?.. What were the most appearant differences adding the P35 to you?

Also did you compare the CD37 to the older CD36?

Cheers!

 

[Dan Turner]

Yeah, going nearer to the rear wall will boost bass at the expense of smoothness and imaging in my experience. Best to address the root cause of issues further up the chain.

Oh yes and I should have mentioned speaker cable specifically before - I found suspected that the QED silver anniversary bi-wire I was using before was just strangling the life out of my system, so I asked PMC what they recommend, and they said Van Damme. So I got some of their 6mm LC-OFC speaker cable and found that it really improved the sound - especially the bass and the dynamics. Best of all it's really cheap, so you could get some and give it a go, and you've lost very little if you don't like it.

 

[Dan Turner]

Yeah, going nearer to the rear wall will boost bass at the expense of smoothness and imaging in my experience. Best to address the root cause of issues further up the chain.

Oh yes and I should have mentioned speaker cable specifically before - I suspected that the QED silver anniversary bi-wire I was using before was just strangling the life out of my system, so I asked PMC what they recommend, and they said Van Damme. So I got some of their 6mm LC-OFC speaker cable and found that it really improved the sound - especially the bass and the dynamics. Best of all it's really cheap, so you could get some and give it a go, and you've lost very little if you don't like it.

 

[JoelSim]

The A85 and A32 are perfectly capable of doing the job and to a much better degree than the much maligned A70. However, if you want a true high end sound then you will also get a matching power amp which transforms the music; more punch, better timing, more detail, more clarity, bigger soundstage, deeper and tighter bass, all in all something very special indeed. My next upgrade will 100% be a biamp set-up and probably the A32/P35 combo which I'm looking into at the moment. If I do, you are welcome to make me an offer for my A85/P85 which are mint. Will be selling for between £500 and £600 of fleabay for the pair.

ÿ

I'm listening to Jack Johnson at the moment and he may well be in the room (albeit hiding behind the TV because I can't see him). I wouldn't be upgrading if I could get my upgradeitis under control but I'm finding it difficult, even though I know I don't need to and I'll face an unhappy missus if it happens...

ÿ

 

[Dan Turner]

Sorry about the accidental double posting of the last one everyone.

Bi-amping improves the sound not by increasing the power (it doesn't because the 2 amps are running in parrallel) but it 1) doubles the amount of current that be delivered to the speakers and 2) dedicates separate amps to drive the bass and treble.

The improvement was very distinct- it sounds more 3 dimensional, more dynamic and the high frequencies are much clearer and free from murk and muddle. But predictably the biggest improvement is in the bass, which is deeper, faster, tighter and more tuneful.

I didn't compare the CD37 to the 36, but I did audition it against the Cyrus CD8SE, Naim CD5x and my old Arcam CD93, and it was the clear winner for me. In direct comparisons the Cyrus did sound a tiny bit more detailed, and the Naim did sound a bit faster, but the Arcam was so much more 3 dimensional and authorative, and the bass is just lovely and deep and powerful. Overall though I thought the Arcam just had so much more tonal colour and was the best all rounder.

 

[JoelSim]

Dan Turner:
Sorry about the accidental double posting of the last one everyone.

Bi-amping improves the sound not by increasing the power (it doesn't because the 2 amps are running in parrallel) but it 1) doubles the amount of current thatÿbe delivered to the speakersÿand 2) dedicates separate amps to driveÿthe bass and treble.

The improvement was very distinct- it sounds more 3 dimensional, more dynamic and the high frequencies are much clearer and free from murk and muddle.ÿ But predictably the biggest improvement is in the bass, which is deeper, faster, tighter and more tuneful.

I didn't compare the CD37 to the 36, but I did audition it against the Cyrus CD8SE, Naim CD5x and my old Arcam CD93, and it was the clear winner for me.ÿ In direct comparisons the Cyrus did sound a tiny bit more detailed, and the Naim did sound a bit faster, but the Arcam was so much more 3 dimensional and authorative, and the bass is justÿlovely and deep and powerful.ÿ Overall though I thought the Arcam just had so much more tonal colour and was the best all rounder.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Dan. My views entirely.

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

thanks guys! your views are very much appreciated