How to get the best sound from a pc

[Alec]

There's bount to be people on their forums who agree. What three things do I have to shut down to get the first massive improvement?

 

[ellisdj]

There's bount to be people on their forums who agree. What three things do I have to shut down to get the first massive improvement?

You ahev missed the point - using one of the CAD Scripts shuts down and optimises tons of services et al in a win 8 or win 8.1 setup.

You can then run his desktop services killer that shuts down more upon every boot up. - again makes a big difference

Then you setup his Shell Killer - that shuts down 3 last services that are required for boot up

Even after shutting down all the others which makes a massive difference shutting down those last 3 makes a surprising big difference on top.

You need to read his instructions on his page - I have linked to it above.

Or you can go through this thread - http://jplay.eu/forum/computer-audio/windows-8-optimization-script/

Dont run the old scripts - run the new ones from his webpage.

You can thank for pointing this all out to you later when your pc is escalated to height you didnt know was possible to get from it.

Then if you trust me listen to everything else I have suggested - get on the JPlay forums and do soem reading. Quite amazing what results can be achieved

 

[cheeseboy]

Cheeseboy I am sorry mate - your miles off in terms of whats achievable from a pc source if you think not having services shut down makes no difference.

:rofl: no I'm not. You don't seem to have any idea what these scripts do apart from being "magic"

You hev obviously never tried running one of the scripts from Scott at Computer Audio Design

ok, just having a quick look through the scripts...

All they do is disable a load of things which you may or may not need. They stop some drivers from loading up. Big wow. None of it would affect the sound quality in any way. I tried it, not a single shred of difference to my ears.

There are revelationary to how the computer sounds

there's nothing revolutionary, trust me. you're just as better off installing vortexbox as it's an os customised to run very little in the background.

- and I owe the guy at leats one beer for sharing his hard work for free

http://www.computeraudiodesign.com/computer-setup/

fair enough, you should (not sarcastic) do that.

Again to reiterate Best Sound at the Bristol Show 2013 - small 1 man band beat off the competition from all the big boys that were there !

wow, a subjective anecdote. that'll convince me

I could sit you down and in 1 minute prove that shutting down 3 additonal services when already the majority of services of windows are already shut down and how much of a difference that makes to the sound!

which ones? am why would they make a difference?

Altering voltages and speeds of ram / cpu makes a massive difference as well - I could prove that as well in 1 minute.!

there's a lot of proving going on here. Sorry, I don't buy it.

I have an i7 2700k cpu - I run it at 1.6ghz no turbo or hyperthreading. That sounds different to it running at stock 3.5Ghz or with a turbo..

:rofl: why the hell would you run a i7 at 1.6??? Why not buy a ferarri and stick the engine from a fiat panda in it?

If you're serious about it, just get a passively cooled low power pc and run that. even a Pi would do what you want without any of the faffing. You're currently using a JCB digger to eat yoghurt from a small bowl.

Ram is the same - and if you get it combined right i.e. cpu speed / ram speed and the voltages as low as possible - without causing problems or the sound to worsen then thats when it sounds best...

Again like the cpu, no dice. Yes, if you are overclocking then there maybe issues, but that's because you are overclocking. Running at stock it won't make any difference.

If you go on the JPlay forums there are quite a few people that concur to this, this was not something I discovered, I have learnt from the people on the forum

Good for them. I don;t use Jriver. Tried it and then tried foobar, all sounded the same so stuck with the free one had a look at the forums and didn't see anything new or revolutionary. Just people dicking around with settings, when in the end it won't make any difference, apart from making them feel better that all those hours spent tweaking have actually made some difference. IMHO of course

 

[ellisdj]

Its amazing you have managed to read all the instructions - after running the script go through everything that it has done.

Get the Desktop and Shell Killers to work and then had time to test it out to make a clear judgement it makes no difference - all in one evening when it took me a couple of days to get the Shell Killer to work properly hmmmm..... strange that one......

I also dont see how you was even using the computer after it as it shuts down explorer and certain internet protocols - you can still control the pc from an external source such as J Remote that syncs with J River. This gives you full control of your Library in a similar way to Sooloos of Meridian that you pay considerable premium for. Again for £6 it an amazing investment and J River at £50 or whatever it is is worth the money for this function alone.

Quite clearly you havent tested properly but I am not going to argue over that. You will say I did and heard no difference waste of my time

I suggest you go to the Bristol show this year and visit room 234 and speak tto Scott from CAD - he can explain exactly what he has done. If you are serious about music playback from a PC then you will learn a lot from him. If you are a member of the cant sound any better brigade why are you even into this hobby. I also dont think using the example of CAD wiining best sound at the show as discreditory - clearly you have not been and seen all the Big names that are there - to win that is an amazing feat

There is no magic and I have not once suggested there is - I know exactly what each script does as before the scripts I did it all by hand manually - but the scripts make it easy for people and its saves a lot of time for them

It shuts down everything that is not needed for music playback and optimises a few settings - so the pc is fully optimised for music playback only. This gives much greater focus, reduces noise, gives much better sound stage and overall clarity. Its night a day difference

CPU Speed and Voltages makes a difference - I bought an I7 as its what I knew I liked the sound of at the time of building my Audio PC so I Played safe. At that time I didnt know I would be running it at 1.6ghz and low voltages. I do have a passive cooled system - the inclusion of fans in the case adds noise and its audible through the system - hence why products are sold to prevent this and most HiFi doesnt have fans.

I run 1.6gz CPU and 800mhz ram with low tight timings 5-5-5-14 I think - they both need to be set at these speeds for it to sound right otherwise it doesnt. I have then lowered the voltages for both until I hit a sweet spot - and the bonus is my small passive cooled Streacom FC5 Evo doesnt get hot now with a big CPU in it like an i7

I also wouldnt dream of feeding a source from a motherboard as you do - the design of PC Motherboards has nothing geared towards audio quality - the noise a PC Motherboard creates in general use is massive - look at the Asus Soundcard designs - they have a design to try and reduce nosie from the motherboard and power supply - why would they bother if it wasnt a problem - thats for both their analogue and digital outputs.

Each to their own - all I know is I would put my PC as it is against the best there is out there in terms of sources and while others would be better I think it would hold and its and raise quite a few eyebrows. Could you honestly say that about your pc as it as and the overall sound you get???

 

[cheeseboy]

Its amazing you have managed to read all the instructions - after running the script go through everything that it has done.

why is it amazing? I work with scripts/pc's every day?

Get the Desktop and Shell Killers to work and then had time to test it out to make a clear judgement it makes no difference - all in one evening when it took me a couple of days to get the Shell Killer to work properly hmmmm..... strange that one......

not strange. Again, it's my job.

I also dont see how you was even using the computer after it as it shuts down explorer and certain internet protocols - you can still control the pc from an external source such as J Remote that syncs with J River. This gives you full control of your Library in a similar way to Sooloos of Meridian that you pay considerable premium for. Again for £6 it an amazing investment and J River at £50 or whatever it is is worth the money for this function alone

you are aware foobar has remote controller as well right? If you're that bothered, get a small pc and run windows embedded as you can tailor it to run what you want. Also, some of the stuff it does shut down is a pretty damning tale on what peope think makes things better - it shuts down firewire - erm, great, my soundcard runs off firewire, what good is that. It shuts down the networking - erm how do I get the files off my nas? I understand exactly what it's try to do, but don't confuse turning these off with it making it sound better.

Quite clearly you havent tested properly but I am not going to argue over that.

Erm right. Yes quite clearly I haven't tested it properly because I don't agree with you :roll:

You will say I did and heard no difference waste of my time

eh?

I suggest you go to the Bristol show this year and visit room 234 and speak tto Scott from CAD - he can explain exactly what he has done. If you are serious about music playback from a PC then you will learn a lot from him. If you are a member of the cant sound any better brigade why are you even into this hobby. I also dont think using the example of CAD wiining best sound at the show as discreditory - clearly you have not been and seen all the Big names that are there - to win that is an amazing feat

maybe if I lived in the country I would. Why would I learn a lot from him? Do you know what I do, what my technical experise is? are you stalking me? ;p Stop spitting your dummy out because somebody doesn't agreew with you (re the comment about if you a member of a certain brigade).

There is no magic and I have not once suggested there is - I know exactly what each script does as before the scripts I did it all by hand manually - but the scripts make it easy for people and its saves a lot of time for them

yes, that's the point of a script...

It shuts down everything that is not needed for music playback and optimises a few settings - so the pc is fully optimised for music playback only. This gives much greater focus, reduces noise, gives much better sound stage and overall clarity. Its night a day difference

There is no night and day difference. If there was I would have heard it too wouldn't I? Yes, i know exactly what it does, but none of it has any real effect on sound. The only thing that may do is stopping the usage of pagefile, but even so, you can set things to run in memory if you think it makes a difference.

CPU Speed and Voltages makes a difference - I bought an I7 as its what I knew I liked the sound of at the time of building my Audio PC so I Played safe. At that time I didnt know I would be running it at 1.6ghz and low voltages.

so why not change the cpu to something smaller that draws less power? Surely by logic that would sound better?

I do have a passive cooled system - the inclusion of fans in the case adds noise and its audible through the system - hence why products are sold to prevent this and most HiFi doesnt have fans..

*can* add noise. Funny how when people are recording that stuff you are playing back the fans don't add noise... wierd that isn't it??

I run 1.6gz CPU and 800mhz ram with low tight timings 5-5-5-14 I think - they both need to be set at these speeds for it to sound right otherwise it doesnt...

...to you....

I also wouldnt dream of feeding a source from a motherboard as you do

where did I say that I did? Are you just making things up now? Either way, the sound is still going to have go through the motherboard at some point...

the design of PC Motherboards has nothing geared towards audio quality

no they are designed to be a computer! some are worse than others.

- the noise a PC Motherboard creates in general use is massive - look at the Asus Soundcard designs - they have a design to try and reduce nosie from the motherboard and power supply - why would they bother if it wasnt a problem - thats for both their analogue and digital outputs.

but what if it's offboard? Surely then most of this doesn't apply does it?

Each to their own - all I know is I would put my PC as it is against the best there is out there in terms of sources and while others would be better I think it would hold and its and raise quite a few eyebrows. Could you honestly say that about your pc as it as and the overall sound you get???

Yes. Yes I can.

 

[ellisdj]

Agreement to disagree on this one - certainly not spitting any dummies out over it just trying to help others get more from their systems if they read this

Which is exactly why Scott @ CAD has done those scripts so that you get the best from his DAC after spending a chunk of money on it, its suppsoed to be an amazing Dac, I missed it last year which was a shame.

I dont go fool hearty into anything - If I try it over a period and its worse I go back to how it was before.

That was not the case with the scripts from Scott. You can use them and still use a Nas - you obviously missed that option in the script as it was running through giving you yes and no options to tailor it to your setup.

However after setting up the desktop and services killer you need remote control - great that foobar does it also, I didnt know that. I stil, stand by the cost of JRiver and j Remote at about £55 as being Very good value for money.

I am not big on change and take a lot of convincing but some things are just plain as day - it was black and white to me - I assume it would be black and white for everyone else. BTW its not just me or Scott at CAD who thinks many members of the PC Audio community feel the same about what they do.

Shame you dont live local we coild do some demo

 

[pauln]

CPU Speed and Voltages makes a difference - I bought an I7 as its what I knew I liked the sound of at the time of building my Audio PC so I Played safe. At that time I didnt know I would be running it at 1.6ghz and low voltages. I do have a passive cooled system - the inclusion of fans in the case adds noise and its audible through the system - hence why products are sold to prevent this and most HiFi doesnt have fans.

I run 1.6gz CPU and 800mhz ram with low tight timings 5-5-5-14 I think - they both need to be set at these speeds for it to sound right otherwise it doesnt. I have then lowered the voltages for both until I hit a sweet spot - and the bonus is my small passive cooled Streacom FC5 Evo doesnt get hot now with a big CPU in it like an i7

I've really never read so much garbage before! I thought people were crazy thinking that they could hear differences in USB cables but you, you can hear differences in processors!! and RAM timings!! Wow.

I have no issues about optimising a PC for use as a recording and editing machine for audio or video and even for playback - you might avoid the odd glitch here and there but the rest of what you're rambling on about is just nuts.

 

[ellisdj]

There was a time recently I would have agreed with you there - However I tried it following anothers recommendation over a period of time and concurred with his results. And quite a few others have concurred as well

I dont know why - unless it because of the lower energy usage because of the lower speed / voltages - it was recommended to use a low power consumption chip for this audio pc build but a k model gave me full control of the chip - thats one of the reasons for buying it

At the time of buying I didnt know if having more cores, threads, or power etc would reap benefits - turns out it was the other way around.

 

[pauln]

Certainly agree that a fanless PC is the way to go - that Streacom case looks nice. One of those with a low power cpu and an SSD would be perfect for a dedicated audio PC. Having said that, my computer is almost inaudible (when it's not working too hard) and thanks must go to SPCR website for tips on silencing.

 

[richie60]

Well I don't know about all this malarky, but I just have an M-Audio 24/96 soundcard>SPDIF output to a DAC, and it sounds really good to my ears!

I don't hear Jitter, distortion, or anything else that's negative, just excellent quality sound. I run both Foobar & Jriver with WASAPI and couldn't be happier!

Rich

 

[ellisdj]

Well I don't know about all this malarky, but I just have an M-Audio 24/96 soundcard>SPDIF output to a DAC, and it sounds really good to my ears!

I don't hear Jitter, distortion, or anything else that's negative, just excellent quality sound. I run both Foobar & Jriver with WASAPI and couldn't be happier!

Rich

If that sound card takes power from the motherboard your hearing noise and jitter you just dont know it. if you power the pc of a standard ATX Power supply thats injecting noise into your system as well.

The noise is compunded to me in a sound harshness, hardening , scibilance in music, its a wall of sound - it doesnt hang completely independent of the speakers. Maybe you are on of the lucky ones but I very much doubt it. people moan that some music sounds un listenable and harp on about loudness wars - I dont get that problem, I can listen now to all music within reason - there is no harshness or hardening at all. The biggest issue for me is room acoustics now - I cant treat it well enough which is a shame

When you hear Good hifi its harmonically rich and enticing - generally music coming off a pc doesnt sound like that - its thin and veiled, and shouty But it Can Sound Like that rich HiFi Sound you get off top end gear. That Top End Gear I am on about has had attention to detail paid to things like power supplies and reduction of noise etc.

Its naive to think just using a standard PC will ever compete with that - it doesnt.

Give the CAD scripts and shell killers a go that I have been going on about - properly though not just a 5 minute test. and make sure you have them working correctly, if you read the instructions and guide in the JPLay thread I linked to earlier you will know if they are working correctly.

Or contact Scott he will be happy to help I am sure

 

[richie60]

Mmm, maybe, but to my ears it sounds excellent. I've listened to both my SBTouch vs PC direct into DAC and I have to say that the SBTouch sounds uninvolving, harsh & thin, the PC sounds a tiny weeny bit warmer with fuller sound and overly more listenable.

The SBTouch is 'isolated' from the PC yet sounds poorer.

Rich

 

[ellisdj]

Thats because the SBTouch a solution designed for profit making - probably running off a £2 cheap and nasty switching wall mart power supply.

Plug a half decent linear power supply into it I am sure it would sound a whole lot better.

At the end of the day ignorance is blis and it depends on what heights you set your expectations to / what you want to achieve from your system. I am not trying to be an show off or an ass I am trying to impart so of what I have learnt in the last 6 months that I have found to make a noticeable difference. I am trying to achieve the very best sound possible - that is what the people from JPLay and the people on the JPlay forum are trying to do as well. Taking it to mad extremes some of them

 

[Alec]

At the end of the day ignorance is blis and it depends on what heights you set your expectations to

I am not trying to be an show off or an ass

 

[ellisdj]

LOL... good one you missed the rest of the sentence off there though - just trying to help others that is all......

 

[CnoEvil]

LOL... good one you missed the rest of the sentence off there though - just trying to help others that is all......

No good deed goes unpunished. :wall:

 

[ellisdj]

One thing I forgot to mention before and will probably get shunned for it.

I have found as have a lot of others is - if you replace the cheap switching wall mart power supply that comes with your Nas or External HD etc where your music is stored/ fed from for a Linear Power Supply you will get better results - these dont have to be super expensive from Teddy Pardot or Paul Hynes (although both are extremely highly regarded) - you can get UK made long warranty good quality Linear supplies custom for your product for about £150 - £250 depending if you want good or great from Sean at Custom HiFI Cables

Credit where credit is due he is excellent

 

[cheeseboy]

At the end of the day ignorance is blis and it depends on what heights you set your expectations to / what you want to achieve from your system. I am not trying to be an show off or an ass I am trying to impart so of what I have learnt in the last 6 months that I have found to make a noticeable difference.

Irony being, I'm also trying to impart knowledge from 20+ years of experience, but obviously it's falling on deaf ears....

 

[cheeseboy]

if you replace the cheap switching wall mart power supply that comes with your Nas or External HD etc where your music is stored/ fed from for a Linear Power Supply you will get better results

oh christ.... :doh:

Just go and buy some audiophile sata cables and be done with it.

 

[ellisdj]

Thats exactly what I expected.....

We can agree to disagree which we have already done so you can say your part as well and I respect your 20+ years of experience - but that doesnt mean categorically you are right. I never say I am categorically rigfht either just my experiences thats very different

Companies have been selling power supply upgrades for years - people have been hearing benefits of replacing switchingpower supplies for linear power supplies for years also

Its not expensive to try and see for ones self I will say no more.

 

[cheeseboy]

I never say I am categorically rigfht either just my experiences thats very different

but then you say stuff like this....

If that sound card takes power from the motherboard your hearing noise and jitter you just dont know it

hmmmmm :type:

 

[ellisdj]

I cant help buy post again -

So you will categorically say that sound card taking power from a motherboard is not having nosie added from having its power from the motherboard source. ?

And if that same sound card took power from else where it would not sound better?

Is this what you are saying?

Well why dont you go into business selling cheap pcs as High End Audio products and make millions .....

 

[ellisdj]

This is from Naim - I suppose they are wrong....

The simplest upgrade is to change, say, the CD player or preamplifier for a more sophisticated model in the range. However, all Naim preamplifiers, along with several other components, can have their performance enhanced through a range of independent power supply units. Simply adding a supply, or moving up one model in the power supply hierarchy, delivers readily appreciable gains in the musical performance of those components. Similar improvements are available for Naim CD players and HDX Hard Disk player. The recent introduction of our first stand-alone digital to analogue converter, the DAC, opens up the available upgrade options further for those sources with a digital output.

 

[ellisdj]

Top of the range Naim Power Supplies have multiple feeds - they feed different components, many will be digital not analogue inside say the CD player or Hard Drive Player for optimal sound quality.

They have been doing this for years. I have heard a system using this and it sounds stunningly clean

In the Audio PC Community the same thing is recommended feed as much of your system with clean linear or battery power as possible.

Its not new or reverlationary in terms of theory but does make a big difference as is what I have been trying to say - that is it

 

[cheeseboy]

I cant help buy post again -

So you will categorically say that sound card taking power from a motherboard is not having nosie added from having its power from the motherboard source. ?

depends on the mobo / case / soundcard. I've had some without any problems noise, and others where it's very evident. As I also said before, if you are using a PC, everything has to go into and out of the motherboard at some point, regardless of what equipment you are using, internal or external, so it's a bit of red herring when you keep saying that the motherboard is responsible for all ills... How do you think studio's do it? Have a look at some of the devices used to record the music you listen to. Yes, they are external boxes - but some of them have specialised controllers to connect it to the pc - where do you think those controllers plug in to???

And if that same sound card took power from else where it would not sound better?

see above

Is this what you are saying?

Well why dont you go into business selling cheap pcs as High End Audio products and make millions .....

spitting your dummy out again I see. :roll: You are aware that when you come out with trite like that, it doesn't help what you are trying to say?

There's no need to anyways, as there's already lots of companies doing that, it's actually quite a crowded market. A lot of the hifi fanless audio pc's you see are just running atom based pc's, which are cheap as chips and can be knocked together with exactly the same components for half the price.