How big a rip off is high end audio?

[Andrew Everard]

jaxwired:If Michael Jackson comes in to my store to by a vase...

If Michael Jackson comes into your store, you'll be able to rip off the tabloids and the celebrity mags for as much money as you could possibly ever want...

 

[Gerrardasnails]

jaxwired:
We just disagree on the definition of "rip-off". To me, it's a rip-off to charge more than the value of the product warrants. If I can find similar value for way less money, it's a rip-off.

To Joel and others, Klipsch could charge a million for that same pair of speakers and it's still not a rip-off. As long as no one is tricked. I just happen to disagree.

In fact, I'd say that a big part of the high end industry is composed of rip-off products. And that the reason they are successful is because they sell to people that are so rich they do not care if they are being ripped-off.

If Michael Jackson comes in to my store to by a vase and I say, "normally the vase is $20, but for you it's $10,000", and MJ says "whatever, ring it up, I like it." is he being ripped off? I'd say yes, many of you say no. That's where we differ.

Simple contract law. Shops don't charge. They offer a price. You accept or you don't. When you walk into a supermarket, you pick up your stuff and put them in a trolley and queue, place the stuff on the counter and pay. By doing that you are accepting the offer. No different with high end goods. There are plenty of alternatives.

 

[Thaiman]

The bottom line for me is "If I can pay less for the sound I want then I would" I don't think a real hifi lover that have been in the game for long time would ever get rip off. If a pair of speakers costing £20K but sounded like a pair of £8K, we'll soon find out. Remember Talon Khorus X?? The speakers was originally have the rrp of £15,000 but the company end up have to sell them for £5 - £6K...brand new. It's not that the talon wasn't very good but they sounded like a very good pair of £6K speakers and not £15K.

 

[jc.com]

jaxwired:

If Michael Jackson comes in to my store to by a vase and I say, "normally the vase is $20, but for you it's $10,000", and MJ says "whatever, ring it up, I like it." is he being ripped off? I'd say yes, many of you say no. That's where we differ.

I don't see anyone disagreeing that this would be a rip-off. It's not what Klipsch are doing, though.

 

[idc]

Will Harris:........ In order to do this the manufacturer has to take "risk" in order to price competitively enough to achieve sales.....

Very true. At the start of R&D any manufacturer worth their salt will have a plan as to where to pitch their product. Aiming at the high end of low sales numbers and high profit margin is risky, particularly if the product is a 'rip off'. It is not good enough to wrap a rubbish, badly designed, cheaply made product in a bit of fur or leather and call it high end. The majority of those who do have the money to but such products are daft and are certainly not happy at being ripped off. The example of Michael Jackson is an extreme that does not really make a realistic point.

A manufacturer who wants to pitch at the high end will have to tread very cannily in how they advertise and promote their product, particularly if they are a small company as many high end hifi manufacturers are.

For that reason of risk, I think that high end is not rip off, it is too risky to do that. Whether or not it is worth buying end end for sound reasons, that is more questionable.

 

[jaxwired]

I seem to be losing this battle. I still think this is just a semantics debate.

Can we all agree that some HiFi products exist that represent poor value for the cost? And is some cases the ratio of poor value to cost is extreme? If we all agree on that, then there's no debate. I just have a different name for those products...guess what it is....

 

[Bodfish]

jaxwired:

I seem to be losing this battle. I still think this is just a semantics debate.

Can we all agree that some HiFi products exist that represent poor value for the cost? And is some cases the ratio of poor value to cost is extreme? If we all agree on that, then there's no debate. I just have a different name for those products...guess what it is....

I doubt it! Define poor value for the cost - and it will invariably mean a different thing to all of us. We don't (and won't) all agree on this one - and presumably, you did want to start a debate, otherwise what's the point of the OP...?

 

[jaxwired]

Bodfish:jaxwired:

I seem to be losing this battle. I still think this is just a semantics debate.

Can we all agree that some HiFi products exist that represent poor value for the cost? And is some cases the ratio of poor value to cost is extreme? If we all agree on that, then there's no debate. I just have a different name for those products...guess what it is....

I doubt it! Define poor value for the cost - and it will invariably mean a different thing to all of us. We don't (and won't) all agree on this one - and presumably, you did want to start a debate, otherwise what's the point of the OP...?

Completely wrong. We DO all agree that some products exist that are poor value for the cost. I didn't say can we all agree WHICH products those are. Sheesh...

 

[Bodfish]

Sheesh indeed.

I don't believe I mentioned anything to do with any product - I'm talking about the general notion of value (poor or otherwise) vs cost.

And I am not 'completely wrong'. Just because we don't agree does not in fact make either of us correct.

 

[jaxwired]

Bodfish:

Sheesh indeed.

I don't believe I mentioned anything to do with any product - I'm talking about the general notion of value (poor or otherwise) vs cost.

And I am not 'completely wrong'. Just because we don't agree does not in fact make either of us correct.

The fact that you don't think there's universal agreement that "Some HiFi products exist that represent poor value for the cost?" is ridiculous. What do you think it means when WHF gives a one star or two star rating?

 

[Anonymous]

Can we all agree that some HiFi products exist that represent poor value for the cost?

russ andrews products some of maybe

 

[Bodfish]

jaxwired:Bodfish:

Sheesh indeed.

I don't believe I mentioned anything to do with any product - I'm talking about the general notion of value (poor or otherwise) vs cost.

And I am not 'completely wrong'. Just because we don't agree does not in fact make either of us correct.

The fact that you don't think there's universal agreement that "Some HiFi products exist that represent poor value for the cost?" is ridiculous. What do you think it means when WHF gives a one star or two star rating?

As far as I'm aware, it is perfectly possible for me to make up my own mind without referring to the latest issue of WHF. I frankly couldn't care less if WHF (or anyone else for that matter) thought the product I was interested in or bought sounded like a bag of spanners being dropped down a flight of stair because they don't have to listen to it.

The point 'some hifi products represent poor value for the cost' only stands up if you agree that the statement is relative to the individual concerned and cannot be considered in a vacuum.

 

[PJPro]

You know some of the components in these speakers may have vanishingly small effects on the sound but cost huge amounts of money. For instance, I recently bought some jazzy speaker binding posts and RCA sockets which cost about 10 times more than the standard versions. I would be amazed if they make any material different to the sound....but they are quailty items and are much better built.

A complete division.....but take a look at this site. Fancy buying some diy interconnect cable at £4200 a metre plus delivery? How about a single capacitor at £1273. Of course, the big money is in valves. I've seen some for $50,000 with no guarantee that they actually work!

So, it's no surprise to me that some high end kit costs an absolute fortune. Is it all about performance? Mainly.....but there's a quality element too which may provide no sonic benefits whatsoever.

 

[daveh75]

Your first link doesn't work PJP! get a forbidden error on it....

 

[Andrew Everard]

The Bank Holiday is over, the traffic jams have gone. You can all stop arguing now...