Hi - Was at the Bristol show yesterday and a lot of companies with high end ripping products were saying that riping by PC/mac's are of poor quality, data gets lost and hence buy a stand alone rip unit. other than marketing speak is there any truth in this. thsi sin't a question about file format as such, but just wondred whether this was the case ? Anyone using high end rippers
High End Rip Vs Pc/Mac rips
- Thread starter staggerlee
- Start date
[UNPUBLISHED BY AE due to lifetime ban on user involved]
High end rippers are a complete waste of money. Use your PC, the results will be identical.
High end rippers are a complete waste of money. Use your PC, the results will be identical.
staggerlee said:
If you are worried, apps such as EAC and dbPoweramp check against a database of previous rips (Accuraterip), this will show you if your rip is perfect or not.
The rips done a PC thus can be demonstrably proven to be "bit-perfect". There is no improvement on "bit-perfect" as it means that every piece of informatition on the CD has been copied exactly to the hard-drive.
The only advantage with some high end ripping products is that some of them make the whole process very automated and simple. But so long as you have the capability to move the mouse around, folllow simple instructions and move files around, then after an initial setup, the above applications will be more than enough.
In fact, if you have possibly a stubborn, hard to rip CD (of which I have a few), then EAC especially will help, as it has a mode whereby it will keep retrying over and over until it either gives up (badly damaged disk) or gets it right.
For all but the extremely well-heeled or extremely lazy, the PC method is enough.
The_Lhc
Well-known member
The best way to check that two WAV files are identical is to invert the phase of one of them with an audio-editor and check that they cancel each other out perfectly. The test is irrefutable. I’m prepared to bet that a CD ripped by an average a £15 CD ROM and the same CD ripped by one of those devices would pass the cancellation-test, meaning that they are indisputably identical.
RodhasGibson
Well-known member
It's bull****, ignore them. +For all but the extremely well-heeled or extremely lazy, the PC method is enough. +1
nopiano
Well-known member
I haven't attempted a comparison so cannot say. As you noted at the Show, I too saw many using Naim servers and quite a few with NAS devices, either visible or tucked away.
A big 'however', given your commitment to Naim in your signature (to the tune of £30k at a guess), I would have thought an HDX would be an obvious choice, albeit with not much change from five grand. I spoke to a Danish Naim dealer at the Show who sold just 4 cdps last year but hundreds of streamers. Based on our chat over lunch, I think he'd say an HDX, especially with a DAC or power supply upgrade, would well surpass even your state-of-the-art CDP (at about half the new cost, so you could probably px yours and come out ahead).
Why mess about with a PC if you can afford not to?
A big 'however', given your commitment to Naim in your signature (to the tune of £30k at a guess), I would have thought an HDX would be an obvious choice, albeit with not much change from five grand. I spoke to a Danish Naim dealer at the Show who sold just 4 cdps last year but hundreds of streamers. Based on our chat over lunch, I think he'd say an HDX, especially with a DAC or power supply upgrade, would well surpass even your state-of-the-art CDP (at about half the new cost, so you could probably px yours and come out ahead).
Why mess about with a PC if you can afford not to?
Trefor Patten
Well-known member
On a mac, you need do nothing more than tick the error correction box in iTunes. I have 3,000 bit-perfect copies of CDS on a WDC hard drive, Playing those files back (i.e. turning the digits into music) is where the magic happens, not in the initial rip.
If basic CD-ROMS didn't read accurately, you would never be able to install software or restore from a backup. It's all marketing cobblers. Bits are bits until you send data into a DAC, then you can argue about jitter etc.
That said, I'm looking at marketing some "directional" SATA cables, which have been burnt-in by transmitting the 'lucky' numbers from Euromillions lottery. A very reasonble £1000 per 30cm.
That said, I'm looking at marketing some "directional" SATA cables, which have been burnt-in by transmitting the 'lucky' numbers from Euromillions lottery. A very reasonble £1000 per 30cm.
I was at one of the demonstrations where a PC ripped track was compared to a high end rip. They did sound different but I ,and I think one other ,out of 20 preferred the PC rip . So what does that say ?
Tim
edit. It was a blind test.
Tim
edit. It was a blind test.
abacus
Well-known member
As has been said, if you use error correction (Which is available on PCs as well as MACs) or programs such as EAC, then there will be no difference. (Essentially what makes the Naim so good is that it re-reads the disc until everything matches 100%, just like EAC)
However the Naim also has some more advantages over a computer, it’s in the same rack as your audio system and you can just pop the disc in and everything is done for you. (Convenience is something you cannot put a price on)
If you don’t mind putting a bit of work in though, you can save yourself a fortune by using a computer.
Bill
However the Naim also has some more advantages over a computer, it’s in the same rack as your audio system and you can just pop the disc in and everything is done for you. (Convenience is something you cannot put a price on)
If you don’t mind putting a bit of work in though, you can save yourself a fortune by using a computer.
Bill
These rippers must do everything but make the tea if they're easier than using a computer. The hardest part of ripping CDs on a computer is correcting the tags before the rip and making sure albums with multiple CDs are grouped together. Oh and finding/scanning the 'right' album art (depends how anal you are about that I guess). Surely you must have to do the same thing? There's nothing slowed me down where I've thought 'if only I had a dedicated ripper it would have been faster/easier'. What am I missing?
BenLaw
Well-known member
The blind test I attended was by Naim. What bothers me is why I thought the PC / Mac rip was superior to the Naim when 18 out of 20 disagreed with me. My aural faculties are a bit out of sync with most peoples' it seems. I thought the Naim system sounded very good otherwise and I had no idea they made speakers too. At least I learned something from the show which I thought was really interesting.
Tim
Tim
The_Lhc
Well-known member
I wouldn't count on having "learned" anything. One of the guys I was with went to a power cable "demo". First they demoed an amp with a normal power cord, then they turned it off, swapped it for one of their power cables, switched it back on and played the same track again. Except the second time the rep turned the volume up 5dBs higher than it had been for the previous cable...
The_Lhc said:
Hence the "rigged" in my previous reply.
It's the only way you'r e gonna pass a power cable test.
I can't describe how the two sounds differed very well. It may have been a bit louder but what I detected as clutter in the Naim sound may have been 'detail'.
My learning curve was all about trying to listen objectively to what really good hifi equipment can sound like. I was impressed by some , underwhelmed by others but a pokey hotel room full of chattering blokes is not the best place to show off your big bucks amp or whatever.
Tim
My learning curve was all about trying to listen objectively to what really good hifi equipment can sound like. I was impressed by some , underwhelmed by others but a pokey hotel room full of chattering blokes is not the best place to show off your big bucks amp or whatever.
Tim
bigboss
Moderator
jjbomber
Well-known member
Timpd said:
Couldn't they just have got their 20 wives/girlfriends/mistresses to walk in while the test was going on and say, in unison, ''Wow' the Hi-Fi sounds better. What have you changed?''.
chebby
Well-known member
>What bothers me is why I thought the PC / Mac rip was superior to the Naim when 18 out of 20 disagreed with me<
Likely responding to body language from the Naim rep. same as the counting horse trick.
Likely responding to body language from the Naim rep. same as the counting horse trick.
chebby said:Trefor Patten said:
I hope you meant you have them on two hard drives
Ouch, indeed. It does amaze me how many people don't have a copy. Personally I have 2 copies and an original.
Thanks all for your comments. I didn't want to refer to naim as such, as i know that Linn also say the same thing. I was curious as i have always found a pc very easy to use for ripping and couldn't understand why you need a £2k macine to rip cd's. No one has ever complained that data is missing. Funnily enough i found the ndx streamer better than the nds. I think the audience was a bit shy when it came to disagreeing with the naim reps.
nopiano
Well-known member
bigboss said:
I don't believe RA was present. I did attend the Isotek dem which was exactly as described above and the rather charming guy who did it made a point of setting the Primare amp to 45 on the volume setting every time. I was at the front so could see that he did it (and I'm very sensitive to volume changes). He had to reset it as being a 'digital' volume, it zero'ed every time it was unplugged. And it was much better with his cables (£80) and extension block (£250) - which it ought to be in a hotel with heaven knows what going into the mains. But 50% of this forum won't believe it so they can turn to another topic. :doh:
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