Help with cables

[the record spot]

My point about hearing - to use the violinst example given - was more to highlight the absolute thresholds that the vast majority of people have and not to point out the (learnable) skills people can have in knowing what to look out for in differentiating sounds heard in a piece of music.

A good aid to this would be the Narrator part of Tubular Bells II where Alan Rickman introduces each of the participants in that part of the album. It's kind of like a colour by numbers for listening tests, so you can eventually detect the glock, from the mandolin, from the bass guitar, and the layers of human vocal.

I don't believe that the novice listener (or inexperienced more accurately) would be unable of doing the same job as the violinist albeit with training and knowing what to look for.

 

[Broner]

My point about hearing - to use the violinst example given - was more to highlight the absolute thresholds that the vast majority of people have and not to point out the (learnable) skills people can have in knowing what to look out for in differentiating sounds heard in a piece of music.

A good aid to this would be the Narrator part of Tubular Bells II where Alan Rickman introduces each of the participants in that part of the album. It's kind of like a colour by numbers for listening tests, so you can eventually detect the glock, from the mandolin, from the bass guitar, and the layers of human vocal.

I don't believe that the novice listener (or inexperienced more accurately) would be unable of doing the same job as the violinist albeit with training and knowing what to look for.

Agreed (and by no means was I arguing against what you said earlier).

 

[the record spot]

No, understood. I just thought I'd clarify where I was coming from more than anything.

 

[hifikrazy]

You appear to be saying that listening to your system with stock cables is like 'merely listening to a song on my iPod dock', do I understand you correctly?

No, but that's now what I meant at all. Sorry if I gave you that impression... English is not my mother tongue.

Of course my system with stock cables is way way better than my iPod dock. Perhaps what I'm saying is that while my system sounds pretty good with stock cables, adding good cables and footers and room treatment is like adding salt and pepper to an already tasty dish. It just completes it.

 

[hifikrazy]

Have you ever tried doing a blind comparison between cables?

Yes I just did one on account of you, since I had a friend over. We compared 2 power cords - an Audience Powerchord e and a Kimber Kable PK10 Gold. The cords were switched (or not) a total of 5 times on my preamp and the first two minutes of a song that I’m very familiar with was played after each switch. I could tell which cord was plugged in all 5 times. Perhaps the sample size might not have been large enough to be conclusive but my friend and I got bored after 5 times.

 

[the record spot]

At £500 a pop for a 2m cord, or more with a Furutech plug on the end of it, I'd make sure I heard a difference. In fact, I think I'd get my ears cleaned out especially for the occasion!

Have you ever opened up and had a look inside one of those cmains leads out of interest?

 

[hifikrazy]

At £500 a pop for a 2m cord, or more with a Furutech plug on the end of it, I'd make sure I heard a difference. In fact, I think I'd get my ears cleaned out especially for the occasion!

Have you ever opened up and had a look inside one of those cmains leads out of interest?

I didn't pay quite that much, but still, don't blame me if I don't feel inclined to open it up.

The Kimber Powerkord 10 Gold cost a lot less than the Audience and have beautiful plugs... the new Wattgate Evolution Gold plugs. For those looking out for a power cord upgrade, I can highly recommend this.

 

[TrevC]

Have you ever tried doing a blind comparison between cables?

Yes I just did one on account of you, since I had a friend over. We compared 2 power cords - an Audience Powerchord e and a Kimber Kable PK10 Gold. The cords were switched (or not) a total of 5 times on my preamp and the first two minutes of a song that I’m very familiar with was played after each switch. I could tell which cord was plugged in all 5 times. Perhaps the sample size might not have been large enough to be conclusive but my friend and I got bored after 5 times.

As mains leads don't affect performance I suspect you were cheating.

 

[GCE]

Look here: http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/star.html

with 1 € / m you are ok . :read:

 

[unknown]

Have you ever tried doing a blind comparison between cables?

Yes I just did one on account of you, since I had a friend over. We compared 2 power cords - an Audience Powerchord e and a Kimber Kable PK10 Gold. The cords were switched (or not) a total of 5 times on my preamp and the first two minutes of a song that I’m very familiar with was played after each switch. I could tell which cord was plugged in all 5 times. Perhaps the sample size might not have been large enough to be conclusive but my friend and I got bored after 5 times.

As mains leads don't affect performance I suspect you were cheating.

is this not an insulting post trevc ?

(benlaw, is trevc not trying to start "a wind up" with this post ?)

try teaching us why mains cables (apparently) do not affect sound quality...

 

[andyjm]

try teaching us why mains cables (apparently) do not affect sound quality...

Mike,

I have posted a number of times on the science of mains cables, but it is hard convincing believers.

Before Christmas, I had proposed a properly conducted test, open to participants on this forum to try to put this to bed. I had approached a studio in London as the venue, but the logistical problems were difficult to overcome.

Not being one to give up, does anyone know of a Hifi club (if such a thing exists) who could host such a test somewhere near the Surrey / West Sussex border?

 

[hifikrazy]

Have you ever tried doing a blind comparison between cables?

Yes I just did one on account of you, since I had a friend over. We compared 2 power cords - an Audience Powerchord e and a Kimber Kable PK10 Gold. The cords were switched (or not) a total of 5 times on my preamp and the first two minutes of a song that I’m very familiar with was played after each switch. I could tell which cord was plugged in all 5 times. Perhaps the sample size might not have been large enough to be conclusive but my friend and I got bored after 5 times.

As mains leads don't affect performance I suspect you were cheating.

So says the self important nobody,

If you must know, I didn't research how to properly do a blind test or double blind test or whatever, My technique was simple - I stepped out of the room while my friend changed the cord. We found a piece of gift wrapping paper to tape on the front of the rack so that I could not see which cord was in use. This was in my own listening room with my own system and a recording that I am extremely familar with. I also own both these cords so am also familiar with the difference in their sound (although a pathetic loser here claims otherwise).

So call it cheating, call it luck, call it familiarity... whatever that pleases you.. Your sad attempts at trying to be a technical expert when you clearly are not is starting to wear thin. In an earlier post, I mentioned how people like you would even question the creditiblity of Jesus or the Pope (assuming you are somewhat religious). This could be stomached if you were God (which clearly you imagine you are) but just bear in mind that you're a choirboy at best.

 

[TrevC]

Have you ever tried doing a blind comparison between cables?

Yes I just did one on account of you, since I had a friend over. We compared 2 power cords - an Audience Powerchord e and a Kimber Kable PK10 Gold. The cords were switched (or not) a total of 5 times on my preamp and the first two minutes of a song that I’m very familiar with was played after each switch. I could tell which cord was plugged in all 5 times. Perhaps the sample size might not have been large enough to be conclusive but my friend and I got bored after 5 times.

As mains leads don't affect performance I suspect you were cheating.

So says the self important nobody,

If you must know, I didn't research how to properly do a blind test or double blind test or whatever, My technique was simple - I stepped out of the room while my friend changed the cord. We found a piece of gift wrapping paper to tape on the front of the rack so that I could not see which cord was in use. This was in my own listening room with my own system and a recording that I am extremely familar with. I also own both these cords so am also familiar with the difference in their sound (although a pathetic loser here claims otherwise).

So call it cheating, call it luck, call it familiarity... whatever that pleases you.. Your sad attempts at trying to be a technical expert when you clearly are not is starting to wear thin. In an earlier post, I mentioned how people like you would even question the creditiblity of Jesus or the Pope (assuming you are somewhat religious). This could be stomached if you were God (which clearly you imagine you are) but just bear in mind that you're a choirboy at best.

There is no need to do blind tests on something that can have no effect.

If only you were a technical expert you too would know that mains cables don't affect performance. I could waste time trying to explain why, but your arrogant and insulting ravings dissuade me from doing so.

 

[hifikrazy]

Good, please continue being dissuaded, since you have zero credibility to share your so called technical expertise.

If this gets me banned, so be it. This forum has effectively been poisoned by the likes of you anyway.

For the record, I'm happy to admit that I have less technical knowledge than you but what irks me is that with your rudimentary technical knowledge, you see fit to condemn the many professionals who work directly in the field of audio and sound tech. Having an occasional soak in the bathtub doesn't make you Michael Phelps.

 

[BenLaw]

Have you ever tried doing a blind comparison between cables?

Yes I just did one on account of you, since I had a friend over. We compared 2 power cords - an Audience Powerchord e and a Kimber Kable PK10 Gold. The cords were switched (or not) a total of 5 times on my preamp and the first two minutes of a song that I’m very familiar with was played after each switch. I could tell which cord was plugged in all 5 times. Perhaps the sample size might not have been large enough to be conclusive but my friend and I got bored after 5 times.

As mains leads don't affect performance I suspect you were cheating.

is this not an insulting post trevc ?

(benlaw, is trevc not trying to start "a wind up" with this post ?)

Yes it is. I happen to agree with trevc that mains cables can't affect peformance but given this was not a double blind test there are plenty of other explanations than hfk cheating, and trevc has clearly expressed his view in an intentionally provocative way. One of the reasons I accused you previously of a wind up post was because you directed it (repeatedly) at trevc and you know full well the sort of similarly provocative post you would get in return. If you're here for the right reasons, remember that two wrongs don't make a right and it does your opinion no favours if it is expressed provocatively even if those with a different view are behaving in that way.

 

[nima]

blah blah blah I happen to agree with trevc that mains cables can't affect peformance blah blah blah

So edited what!

Did you all also join some cancer patients forum telling everybody how stupid they are and how something can't affect their illnes?

 

[TrevC]

Good, please continue being dissuaded, since you have zero credibility to share your so called technical expertise.

If this gets me banned, so be it. This forum has effectively been poisoned by the likes of you anyway.

For the record, I'm happy to admit that I have less technical knowledge than you but what irks me is that with your rudimentary technical knowledge, you see fit to condemn the many professionals who work directly in the field of audio and sound tech. Having an occasional soak in the bathtub doesn't make you Michael Phelps.

Anyone that thinks that mains leads can change sound quality is incorrect, and therefore cannot possibly be an expert in electronics.

 

[BenLaw]

blah blah blah I happen to agree with trevc that mains cables can't affect peformance blah blah blah

So edited what!

Did you all also join some cancer patients forum telling everybody how stupid they are and how something can't affect their illnes?

Poor effort. This has what to do with cancer please? Chances are anyone affected by cancer could be pretty upset by your cheap and base analogy.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

wow..... are you guys serious?

Hifikrazy give it up, seriously..... these blokes just keep repeating themselves, they'll never expand on the 'they make no difference'. stance. TrevC believes speaker cables make a difference but interconnects and power chords don't - all conducters made of the same material. You can't argue with a man like that, you need to be in the same room and prove it.

Ben Law, you have some nice kit - looked at your sig, are you seriously tellling the readers of WHF's forum cables make no difference to your system, I'm suprised by that, I would have thought those ATC's would respond to any subtle changes made in the chain from source to speaker.... you've even treated the room to stop reflections....genuinly suprised.

 

[BenLaw]

Thanks, I am, and as far as I know they do.

 

[Edo]

Don't spend a fortune on a cables and interconects, let their values be no more than 10% of your system. For budget Hi-Fi buy budget cables Oxygen Free Coper (3,5 Euros / m) and sing a song.

My philosophy is:

my car cost less than my house,

my Hi-Fi separates costs less than my car,

my cables costs less than my Hi-Fi separates.

But ,hey that's me

, everyone on it's own.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Thanks, I am, and as far as I know they do.

Your cable choice ain't cheap (even if you got them cheap) are they,

you use XLR connectors.......you know were I'm going with this right?....... >) :evil:

O.k, do a test for us - you must have some cheapo cables in the house, right?

Put them on for a week and compare them .....please.

I'm curious, somewhere in this thread I have stated cables make subtle differences, but these subtle differences affects our enjoyment hugely - as Hifikrazy discribed a few posts above & I have discribed on occassion.

Live with cheap cables for a week and let us know how or if they make a difference to you and your system..

 

[BenLaw]

I have no idea where you're going with this. In what way is my cable choice not cheap? There is no inherent reason why XLR should be more expensive than RCA. I use it as each if my components is fully balanced.

I use XLRs like these:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Livewire-2m-Male-to-Female-XLR-Mic-Lead-Balanced-Microphone-Cable-/271003230301?pt=UK_Musical_Cables_Leads_Connectors&var=&hash=item3f190d205d

Albeit shorter and a pair obviously. I think they cost about £6. How much cheaper would you like me to experiment with?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I have no idea where you're going with this. In what way is my cable choice not cheap? There is no inherent reason why XLR should be more expensive than RCA. I use it as each if my components is fully balanced.

I use XLRs like these:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Livewire-2m-Male-to-Female-XLR-Mic-Lead-Balanced-Microphone-Cable-/271003230301?pt=UK_Musical_Cables_Leads_Connectors&var=&hash=item3f190d205d

Albeit shorter and a pair obviously. I think they cost about £6. How much cheaper would you like me to experiment with?

Oh c'mon Ben, put away your XLR cables and dig out your cheapo RCA freebie cables and string your set up with them, just for one week.

That example you linked to those cable looked pretty fat. just use standard RCA cables - between CD and pre & amp, just the electronics, not the speakers...... please, indulge us

try it

 

[DocG]

blah blah blah I happen to agree with trevc that mains cables can't affect peformance blah blah blah

So edited what!

Did you all also join some cancer patients forum telling everybody how stupid they are and how something can't affect their illnes?

:whack: That's an offensive analogy! I understand you think of cable-believers as having a difficult-to-cure disease. But please don't push it! Cancer is not a luxury problem! :sad: