Help with cables

[BenLaw]

But at best you'd be comparing RCA v XLR, not cost or make of cables, so it seems a pointless test.

If it helps you sleep at night, I use freebie RCA cables (including cannibalised red / white / yellow cables that I think came with an old VCR) between my pre / pro and my a30.5.

 

[the record spot]

Thanks, I am, and as far as I know they do.

Your cable choice ain't cheap (even if you got them cheap) are they,

you use XLR connectors.......you know were I'm going with this right?....... >) :evil:

O.k, do a test for us - you must have some cheapo cables in the house, right?

Put them on for a week and compare them .....please.

I'm curious, somewhere in this thread I have stated cables make subtle differences, but these subtle differences affects our enjoyment hugely - as Hifikrazy discribed a few posts above & I have discribed on occassion.

Live with cheap cables for a week and let us know how or if they make a difference to you and your system..

Been there, done that...! £8 against £200-odd. Minimal. This setup below.

 

[the record spot]

blah blah blah I happen to agree with trevc that mains cables can't affect peformance blah blah blah

So edited what!

Did you all also join some cancer patients forum telling everybody how stupid they are and how something can't affect their illnes?

:whack: That's an offensive analogy! I understand you think of cable-believers as having a difficult-to-cure disease. But please don't push it! Cancer is not a luxury problem! :sad:

Yes, this.

Can we do without the cancer (here) and homophobic (other thread) metaphors please? Plenty of more suitable and less touchy options out there.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

But at best you'd be comparing RCA v XLR, not cost or make of cables, so it seems a pointless test.

If it helps you sleep at night, I use freebie RCA cables (including cannibalised red / white / yellow cables that I think came with an old VCR) between my pre / pro and my a30.5.

o.k .... no problem.

I would do it for you, no quibble.

 

[TrevC]

wow..... are you guys serious?

Hifikrazy give it up, seriously..... these blokes just keep repeating themselves, they'll never expand on the 'they make no difference'. stance. TrevC believes speaker cables make a difference but interconnects and power chords don't - all conducters made of the same material. You can't argue with a man like that, you need to be in the same room and prove it.

Ben Law, you have some nice kit - looked at your sig, are you seriously tellling the readers of WHF's forum cables make no difference to your system, I'm suprised by that, I would have thought those ATC's would respond to any subtle changes made in the chain from source to speaker.... you've even treated the room to stop reflections....genuinly suprised.

I did explain it to you. I should have remembered Mark Twain's advice.“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

 

[BenLaw]

But at best you'd be comparing RCA v XLR, not cost or make of cables, so it seems a pointless test.

If it helps you sleep at night, I use freebie RCA cables (including cannibalised red / white / yellow cables that I think came with an old VCR) between my pre / pro and my a30.5.

o.k .... no problem.

I would do it for you, no quibble.

Just so I understand where you're coming from, are you still saying my XLRs are expensive?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Thanks, I am, and as far as I know they do.

Your cable choice ain't cheap (even if you got them cheap) are they,

you use XLR connectors.......you know were I'm going with this right?....... >) :evil:

O.k, do a test for us - you must have some cheapo cables in the house, right?

Put them on for a week and compare them .....please.

I'm curious, somewhere in this thread I have stated cables make subtle differences, but these subtle differences affects our enjoyment hugely - as Hifikrazy discribed a few posts above & I have discribed on occassion.

Live with cheap cables for a week and let us know how or if they make a difference to you and your system..

Been there, done that...! £8 against £200-odd. Minimal. This setup below.

Record spot, no disrespect but - your amp could show you more with better speakers - nothing wrong with the DC4's but they are what they are, those ATC are in a different league

 

[Freddy58]

However, what I find the better cables bring is that little bit more naturalness - the metal of a cymbal, the burnished brass tone of a saxophone, the skin of a drum, the wooden sound of drum sticks striking the side of a Japanese drum, the hammer of a piano striking the strings, the woodiness of a violin and acoustic guitar, the breathiness of a female voice, etc. It’s that ability to immediately cause my mind to envision the materials of that instrument, and that a singer’s voice is reproduced from their whole body and not just their mouth

You've pretty much described how I felt about my old system, using QED 79 strand...

 

[Thompsonuxb]

But at best you'd be comparing RCA v XLR, not cost or make of cables, so it seems a pointless test.

If it helps you sleep at night, I use freebie RCA cables (including cannibalised red / white / yellow cables that I think came with an old VCR) between my pre / pro and my a30.5.

o.k .... no problem.

I would do it for you, no quibble.

Just so I understand where you're coming from, are you still saying my XLRs are expensive?

No, just said they look fat.

 

[BenLaw]

But at best you'd be comparing RCA v XLR, not cost or make of cables, so it seems a pointless test.

If it helps you sleep at night, I use freebie RCA cables (including cannibalised red / white / yellow cables that I think came with an old VCR) between my pre / pro and my a30.5.

o.k .... no problem.

I would do it for you, no quibble.

Just so I understand where you're coming from, are you still saying my XLRs are expensive?

No, just said they look fat.

Well you said they 'weren't cheap', so I'm confused by your definition of cheap and expensive. Either that or you assumed because they were XLR they 'weren't cheap'. I'd be intrigued to see what you can find that's cheaper.

 

[Freddy58]

Good, please continue being dissuaded, since you have zero credibility to share your so called technical expertise.

If this gets me banned, so be it. This forum has effectively been poisoned by the likes of you anyway.

For the record, I'm happy to admit that I have less technical knowledge than you but what irks me is that with your rudimentary technical knowledge, you see fit to condemn the many professionals who work directly in the field of audio and sound tech. Having an occasional soak in the bathtub doesn't make you Michael Phelps.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

But at best you'd be comparing RCA v XLR, not cost or make of cables, so it seems a pointless test.

If it helps you sleep at night, I use freebie RCA cables (including cannibalised red / white / yellow cables that I think came with an old VCR) between my pre / pro and my a30.5.

o.k .... no problem.

I would do it for you, no quibble.

Just so I understand where you're coming from, are you still saying my XLRs are expensive?

No, just said they look fat.

Well you said they 'weren't cheap', so I'm confused by your definition of cheap and expensive. Either that or you assumed because they were XLR they 'weren't cheap'. I'd be intrigued to see what you can find that's cheaper.

I did assume they were decent cables you got cheap on the internet......

You say they are the equivalent of out the box dirt cheap, thin like a thin piece of string freebie.... did I say cheap, cables, if they are no problem.

Just that I have cheapo freebies cables upto a £50 coax & the differences are audible between the various cables some more than others, I'm suprised your system cannot or you do not hear differences is all.

 

[BenLaw]

But at best you'd be comparing RCA v XLR, not cost or make of cables, so it seems a pointless test.

If it helps you sleep at night, I use freebie RCA cables (including cannibalised red / white / yellow cables that I think came with an old VCR) between my pre / pro and my a30.5.

o.k .... no problem.

I would do it for you, no quibble.

Just so I understand where you're coming from, are you still saying my XLRs are expensive?

No, just said they look fat.

Well you said they 'weren't cheap', so I'm confused by your definition of cheap and expensive. Either that or you assumed because they were XLR they 'weren't cheap'. I'd be intrigued to see what you can find that's cheaper.

I did assume they were decent cables you got cheap on the internet......

Thought so. So you're happy with the comparison I've done of c£350 v c£6 interconnects?

You say they are the equivalent of out the box dirt cheap, thin like a thin piece of string freebie.... did I say cheap, cables, if they are no problem.

Just that I have cheapo freebies cables upto a £50 coax & the differences are audible between the various cables some more than others, I'm suprised your system cannot or you do not hear differences is all.

Logically there are only two options. Either there are audible differences which I can't hear or there are no audible differences but you think, sighted, that you can. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you which.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

But at best you'd be comparing RCA v XLR, not cost or make of cables, so it seems a pointless test.

If it helps you sleep at night, I use freebie RCA cables (including cannibalised red / white / yellow cables that I think came with an old VCR) between my pre / pro and my a30.5.

o.k .... no problem.

I would do it for you, no quibble.

Just so I understand where you're coming from, are you still saying my XLRs are expensive?

No, just said they look fat.

Well you said they 'weren't cheap', so I'm confused by your definition of cheap and expensive. Either that or you assumed because they were XLR they 'weren't cheap'. I'd be intrigued to see what you can find that's cheaper.

I did assume they were decent cables you got cheap on the internet......

Thought so. So you're happy with the comparison I've done of c£350 v c£6 interconnects?

You say they are the equivalent of out the box dirt cheap, thin like a thin piece of string freebie.... did I say cheap, cables, if they are no problem.

Just that I have cheapo freebies cables upto a £50 coax & the differences are audible between the various cables some more than others, I'm suprised your system cannot or you do not hear differences is all.

Logically there are only two options. Either there are audible differences which I can't hear or there are no audible differences but you think, sighted, that you can. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you which.

lol.... stop, please just stop.... your system is capable, its much better than mine on paper, it'd be interesting to hear them side by side in the same room - but we will not be going around this whole argument again, enough..... no mas.

 

[Freddy58]

So, do cables make a diference? I'll get me coat...

 

[the record spot]

Record spot, no disrespect but - your amp could show you more with better speakers - nothing wrong with the DC4's but they are what they are, those ATC are in a different league

Stop where you are. You've clearly not heard them, you've definitely not heard them in this setup. Consequently, you don't know what you're talking about or what this system can deliver.

 

[hifikrazy]

Anyone that thinks that mains leads can change sound quality is incorrect, and therefore cannot possibly be an expert in electronics.

Claiming to know know more than audio and sound professionals who have worked their whole life in this field just makes you sound like an underachiever with an inferiority complex. Either that or you have a God complex.

Actually how does this forum work? It's hosted on the WHF website, a publication that regularly reviews cables, so when some people are allowed to constantly preach here that there are no differences in sound quality between cables, that's essentially calling the WHF team a bunch of liars. While I understand the whole freedom of expression thingy, to house traitors in your own home is a bit extreme.

 

[Broner]

Claiming to know know more than audio and sound professionals who have worked their whole life in this field just makes you sound like an underachiever with an inferiority complex. Either that or you have a God complex.

And again you rely on some sort of authority, while it is well established that audio and sound professionals have very different opinions about what exactly influences sound. Trevc could make exactly the same argument as you do (and it would be equally fallacious). If you could provide some sort of consensus point among audio professionals, it would be a different matter. Your argument would also be infinitely stronger if you could argue with some sort of test results that support your opinions (please do so).

While I understand the whole freedom of expression thingy, to house traitors in your own home is a bit extreme.

You are taking this whole thing too far.

 

[hifikrazy]

And again you rely on some sort of authority, while it is well established that audio and sound professionals have very different opinions about what exactly influences sound. Trevc could make exactly the same argument as you do (and it would be equally fallacious). If you could provide some sort of consensus point among audio professionals, it would be a different matter. Your argument would also be infinitely stronger if you could argue with some sort of test results that support your opinions (please do so).

You've hit the nail on the head. There is no consensus, so why should TrevC make God complex statements like:

Mains leads don't affect sound quality.

The differences between two amplifiers of the same power is more about how they look than how they perform.

As mains leads don't affect performance I suspect you were cheating.

There is no need to do blind tests on something that can have no effect.

And this:

It's basic electronics really. One really doesn't need to be famous to understand it, it's all rather obvious once you do.

Now if it was that basic, then why is it as you state above, well established that audio and sound professionals have very different opinions about what exactly influences sound? If it was that basic, shouldn't every one of them be 100% in agreement on the subject, just like every Astronomer will agree that the Moon is round? That just tells me that no one knows everything about the subject, including that self proclaimed God's gift to electronics.

TrevC talks like he is ultimate authority on the subject, and I'm only questioning his credentials to do so because there are far more experienced people on the subject matter that would disagree with his views. At the same time, I'm man enough to admit that there are also others who would agree with him. So that means he cannot be unquestionably correct and infallible, however much he talks like he is.

 

[TrevC]

And again you rely on some sort of authority, while it is well established that audio and sound professionals have very different opinions about what exactly influences sound. Trevc could make exactly the same argument as you do (and it would be equally fallacious). If you could provide some sort of consensus point among audio professionals, it would be a different matter. Your argument would also be infinitely stronger if you could argue with some sort of test results that support your opinions (please do so).

You've hit the nail on the head. There is no consensus, so why should TrevC make God complex statements like:

Mains leads don't affect sound quality.

The differences between two amplifiers of the same power is more about how they look than how they perform.

As mains leads don't affect performance I suspect you were cheating.

There is no need to do blind tests on something that can have no effect.

And this:

It's basic electronics really. One really doesn't need to be famous to understand it, it's all rather obvious once you do.

Now if it was that basic, then why is it as you state above, well established that audio and sound professionals have very different opinions about what exactly influences sound? If it was that basic, shouldn't every one of them be 100% in agreement on the subject, just like every Astronomer will agree that the Moon is round? That just tells me that no one knows everything about the subject, including that self proclaimed God's gift to electronics.

TrevC talks like he is ultimate authority on the subject, and I'm only questioning his credentials to do so because there are far more experienced people on the subject matter that would disagree with his views. At the same time, I'm man enough to admit that there are also others who would agree with him. So that means he cannot be unquestionably correct and infallible, however much he talks like he is.

You don't need to be an electronics expert to realise that a mains cable only carries the mains. As long as it isn't made of eureka wire it will be 100% efficient at carrying the mains to any given appliance, so there is no mechanism for it to influence the performance of anything in any way at all.

An audio professional that thinks mains cables change the sound is also incorrect.

 

[unknown]

what about mains cables with filters attached to them ?

 

[Native_bon]

blah blah blah I happen to agree with trevc that mains cables can't affect peformance blah blah blah

So edited what!

Did you all also join some cancer patients forum telling everybody how stupid they are and how something can't affect their illnes?

:whack: That's an offensive analogy! I understand you think of cable-believers as having a difficult-to-cure disease. But please don't push it! Cancer is not a luxury problem! :sad:

Yes, this.

Can we do without the cancer (here) and homophobic (other thread) metaphors please? Plenty of more suitable and less touchy options out there.

very much agree.

 

[hifikrazy]

You don't need to be an electronics expert to realise that a mains cable only carries the mains. As long as it isn't made of eureka wire it will be 100% efficient at carrying the mains to any given appliance, so there is no mechanism for it to influence the performance of anything in any way at all.

An audio professional that thinks mains cables change the sound is also incorrect.

amen

 

[TrevC]

what about mains cables with filters attached to them ?

Unlikely you would need them on a line source.

 

[hifikrazy]

While I understand the whole freedom of expression thingy, to house traitors in your own home is a bit extreme.

You are taking this whole thing too far.

I was actually deciding between traitors and terrorists, since they have a tendency to hijack threads to further their cause.