Help me decide what new Integrated amplifier to buy!

[Happy_Listner]

Hi everyone,

I finally did it and sold my Croft Phono Integrated amplifier. Why? Partially because I'm an idiot and I get bored easily and partially because I didn't like how it sounded with CD. It is very transparent with my Proac speakers which can be too much of good thing with digital sources. To my ears it was a little too bright sounding. However, with the phono input I did get some of the best sound I have ever heard playing records. Great all around amp though.

So far in my quest to replace the Croft I took home and tried out the Exposure 2010S2. Amazingly I heard even more detail in my CD's than with the Croft. In fact more so than any other amp I have ever tried out before at home. The bass was also slightly more satisfying to me than the Croft was. While not as quick and rhythmic it was deeper and had a more sold feel with good texture.

The down fall with the Exposure? It is just too transparent for my liking. But I mean wow! I heard things in my recordings that I never heard before. It was very addicting but ultimately too fatiguing in the long run. Some of my CD's just sounded way too bright for my ears. Many times the sibilance was just too much. I want to be able to listen to all of my CD's and not just the well recorded ones. If it means sacrificing transparency then so be it.

So I need help from all of you here in this community finding a new integrated amp. Until then I am using my old Creek 4330 and it's a good one for its age. I just want something newer, has a little more power, and better sounding. I will be using my trusty old Proac Signature 2000's with whatever amp I end up buying.

I want to get an amp that is smooth sounding and preferably solid state or hybrid. In the $2000 USD price range I have narrowed down a few choices. I can get all of these amps for around the same price here where I live. Some amplifiers cost more in the USA than in the UK and some I can get a good discount on. So these prices will vary I am sure between the UK and the USA.

These are my narrowed down choices. If it's not on the list then it is probably because it's not available here, it's too expensive, or because I have heard it before and I know I don't like it.

1. Roksan K2 BT ($1900) The M2 is out of my price range here

2. Arcam A38 (new with discount $1850) plus $200 for phono card

3. Sugden Mystro ($2000)

4. Hegel H80 ($2000) plus I need phono preamp then.

5. Creek A50 ($1600) with tuner modual and phono board

6. Heed Obelisk ($2100) with phono card

7. Rogue Sphinx (Only $1295 here) no remote but with phono.

8. Pathos Classic MK 3 ($2100 but used 1.5 years old and I still need a phono preamp)

9. Sonneteer Alabaster ($2000, need phono preamp) The Campion is hard to come by here.

10. Redgum RGi 35ENR ($1700, need phono preamp)

What does everyone think? What is your vote?

Thanks for the help! It is much appreciated.

:cheers:

 

[Al ears]

There is nobody on this forum that can tell you what you want to hear you have to audition for yourself.

I guess I can try to help you shorten the list a little but that is about all.

If you did not like the sound of your Croft then you might also like to scratch the Soneteer, the Sugden and the Creek as the all have very sinilar SQ (to my ears) and are very similar to your Croft.

Out of the rest on I'd say try to listen to the Roksan and the Hegel (because those are the only other ones that I have heard).

 

[James7]

I wonder whether the problem lies with your digital source. Perhaps a NOS DAC like the Metrum Octave or a valve output CD player from someone like Icon Audio would solve the problem.

 

[matthewpiano]

I can identify with what you are saying about 'too much of a good thing' with the transparency.

I haven't heard all of the options in your list, and I doubt there will be anyone who has, but for me the Arcam A38 stands out as a paragon of musicality. It remains one of the most enjoyable and immersive amplifiers I've ever heard and if I had the money for one it would be one of two very strong contenders. The other contender would be Creek's Destiny 2.

You don't mention any Marantz models in your list. As you say, this may be because you have already ruled them out from listening, but I would have thought the Marantz approach might suit what you are looking for. Why not give the PM8005 a listen?

 

[Happy_Listner]

Al Ears,

So you think the Sonneteer, Sugden, and Creek 50A will have similar sonics to the Exposure and Croft? Never heard them before so you could be right. Thanks for the respone.

 

[Happy_Listner]

James 7,

I am using a Cambridge Audio 840C CD player. Not known for sounding too bright but it is transparent. A tubed CD player is an option. Thanks.

 

[Happy_Listner]

Matthewpiano,

The Creek Destiny 2 did cross my mind because it uses MOSFETS and you can use it in passive preamp mode or active and adjust the gain with 3 levels. The Creek 50A I mentioned uses those bright Sanken bi-polar outputs and active pre stage so it may not be a good choice. I always heard that the Destiny 2 sounds smooth from the reviews I have read. Anyways, it's a mute point for me unless I can find one used because it is $3000 new here. A little out of my price range.

The Marantz 8005? Yes, I bought an PM8004 before and returned it after 2 weeks under the stores 30 day return policy. Loved it for the first few days but as it broke in it became too transparent and bright for me. There is little difference between the 8004 and newer 8005. In fact they look the same inside and out from the pictures I have seen.

I have heard the PM-15S2 in audio stores a few times and have always liked the way it sounded though. I could get one for $2000 new right now but I'm a bit weary about trying out Marantz again.

I may have to think about buying some new speakers as well and finding an amp and speaker combo that works well together so I can attain that smooth sound I'm looking for.

Thanks

 

[cannibal_ox77]

Surprised you found the Marantz bright, I found the opposite after running in the PM-KI pearl lite. I went with this amp to soften the high end of the MA RS6 and I don't find the sound fatiguing at all. A friend uses the pearl lite with MA BX5 and although it's a little bright for my taste, it also softened up after a good run in. Think his room acoustics don't help, very refelective.

 

[cannibal_ox77]

Double post

 

[KidKomet]

Another vote for the Arcam here. It is terrific. Out of curiosity, have you already ruled out the Rega elicit-R? or anything from Naim?

 

[Macspur]

Unless the Mystro differs greatly from the A21 and IA-4, I wouldn't expect it to sound anything other than smooth.

Pathos would also fit the bill.

Do you have access to Electrocompaniet?

A good point about the digital source too.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[Vladimir]

I vote for Roksan Kandy K2 BT for the obvious reason: the ProAcs are 86db IIRC were voiced for tube amps (Audio Research). The Kandy has the power and soft touch of classical lateral MOSFET amps, IMO best of the both worlds of tubes and SS.

The Caspian M2 is a BJT based design made to compete with bright and fast sounding British amps like Naim and Exposure. With bright speakers it will impress but also create listening fatigue.

Regardless of price, a tube sound lover will feel very much at home with the sweet Kandy.

 

[stevebrock]

Another vote for the Arcam here. It is terrific. Out of curiosity, have you already ruled out the Rega elicit-R? or anything from Naim?

Elicit R - very transparent, couldnt listen to it for long periods with CDs & digital

 

[Esra]

What do you think about the EC Pi-2?

 

[Vladimir]

As for Sugden, here is a quote from Stereophile's review of the new A21.

I am disappointed with the Sugden A21ai Series 2's measured performance. When I first became an audiophile in the late 1960s, the late Jim Sugden's class-A amplifier designs were already legendary. But the A21ai doesn't seem to take full advantage of the primary benefit of class-A operation, which is to allow the high standing-bias current to minimize distortion. Yes, its behavior into 8 ohms is respectable, but this amplifier really does not like impedances much below that figure. Its output-stage transfer function becomes increasingly "bent" as the load impedance drops, which will drastically limit the number of loudspeakers with which it will be able to successfully drive. Assuming there was nothing faulty with our review sample's phono stage, its miserable overload margin renders it incompatible with most moving-magnet and higher-output moving-coil cartridges. I recommend that, instead of the A21ai ($2995), vinyl lovers investigate using the line-only A21al Series 2 with an outboard phono stage from another manufacturer, though the recent price increase of the A21al from $1895 to $2795 makes that option less competitive.—John Atkinson

 

[Vladimir]

No TIM Matti Otala design of old. Very clean, powerfull, smooth and non-transistory sound.

Electrocompaniet should be on the OP's list right next to Roksan, Hegel, Creek and Arcam. If not on top.

 

[Esra]

Could you do an audition Vladimir or ist that what you read?I read similar good things about EC Pi2 and all I know who have one( to be precise only one I know but not so good he would lend me his one)seem happy with it.

BTW. I got a neat NAD 316Bee today,ex-Demo for a price I couldn´t resist,yuhey my own first NAD ever.If this thing is as good as you could read in magz. then I threw in NAD to consider maybe.We will see.

 

[emperor's new clothes]

If an amp is the answer, the Yamaha A S2100 with MOSFET output is due soon. Claimed to have "valve like" sound. Agree with Mathewpiano, the source might be the problem. Perhaps borrow an irDAC - worked for me.

 

[Vladimir]

Could you do an audition Vladimir or ist that what you read?I read similar good things about EC Pi2 and all I know who have one( to be precise only one I know but not so good he would lend me his one)seem happy with it.

BTW. I got a neat NAD 316Bee today,ex-Demo for a price I couldn´t resist,yuhey my own first NAD ever.If this thing is as good as you could read in magz. then I threw in NAD to consider maybe.We will see.

Electrocompaniet is quite popular where I'm located so I've been hearing their amps on many ocassions and read about their history and philosophy. Always been too pricey for my pocket unfortunatly. Personally I haven't heard the PI2 but I am confident it has the sonic consistency from their complete range. I could do an audition but when I have an necessity to visit the capital (200km away).

 

[Esra]

Valve ... Vincent 237 MKII ,looks nice too...

http://www.vincent-tac.de/en/product-lines/tubeline/sv-237/

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

I've the Pathos Classic One mkIII, it has a valve pre amp and MOSFET power amp. I use a Clearaudio Basic + phono stage with Pathos and my Rega RP3 with goldring 1012gx.

I've demo in this last month:

Unison Research Unico Nuovo

Rega Elicit R

Roksan M2

Linn Majik DSM

Primare i22

and the two last contenders was the Pathos and the UR Nuovo!

You can get a UR with a phono stage fit in but some how i found it a bit to noisy!

For me, i found in hybrids what was missing in my music, dimention, detail with finess, extra 3D sound stage, a clear countour around instruments and voices.

Go and have a listen for your self!

 

[Macspur]

As for Sugden, here is a quote from Stereophile's review of the new A21.

I am disappointed with the Sugden A21ai Series 2's measured performance. When I first became an audiophile in the late 1960s, the late Jim Sugden's class-A amplifier designs were already legendary. But the A21ai doesn't seem to take full advantage of the primary benefit of class-A operation, which is to allow the high standing-bias current to minimize distortion. Yes, its behavior into 8 ohms is respectable, but this amplifier really does not like impedances much below that figure. Its output-stage transfer function becomes increasingly "bent" as the load impedance drops, which will drastically limit the number of loudspeakers with which it will be able to successfully drive. Assuming there was nothing faulty with our review sample's phono stage, its miserable overload margin renders it incompatible with most moving-magnet and higher-output moving-coil cartridges. I recommend that, instead of the A21ai ($2995), vinyl lovers investigate using the line-only A21al Series 2 with an outboard phono stage from another manufacturer, though the recent price increase of the A21al from $1895 to $2795 makes that option less competitive.—John Atkinson

That's disappointing to read.

I used to own the A21AL and Masterclass IA-4 and both were very natural sounding, smooth with excellent detail and vocals were particularly natural.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[iQ Speakers]

Valve ... Vincent 237 MKII ,looks nice too...

http://www.vincent-tac.de/en/product-lines/tubeline/sv-237/

Very nice a Hybrid amp with 150W for £1799 and looks stunning in silver, black not so! German design.

 

[Vladimir]

Very nice a Hybrid amp with 150W for £1799 and looks stunning in silver, black not so! German design.

Do you have the name of the German designer? I thought the company was Chinese. :?

 

[ErikM]

ProAc's are voiced with tubes..They sound their best with either tubes or Class A solid state..