headphones and potential health problems

[admin_exported]

read on another topic that portable amps are now available for headphones

there are serious issues about headphone use as im sure many aware but particularly for people like me who use them walking running and cycling

the danger is you turn up the volume to compensate for external noise and so risk damage to your ears

some countries have already legislation limiting the output of mp3 devices so real is the danger so it seems remarkable that companies can put out devices which are going to make the problem worse

if you google headphones and health problems youll find references to that and also other known issues plus some like wireless which are to be resolved

so we should treat these devices with respect and avoid all portable amplification

rant end

 

[idc]

There are health problems associated with AV and hifi as well. Noise disturbance between neighbours and family members causes stress which if polonged can develop into serious medical conditions such as depression and increased chances of certain cancers.

You are mistakenly associating amplicifcation for making music too loud. It is there to make it loud enough to listen to and most important to improve the sound quality.

Common sense should be allowed to prevail and not nanny state legislation. In any case, chances are if you are excercising you are using appropriate headphones that will work fine without amplification due to their sensitivity.

 

[Anonymous]

have a read of the wikipedia section on headphones dangers and volume solutions to understand the potential risk

 

[matengawhat]

have a read on the back of any concert ticket/movie ticket etc

anything too loud will damage your ears - headphone amps are there to add more power not necessarily increase volume

 

[Anonymous]

again read the article

note also the use of the word portable in my original post

edit but it looks like the legislators are going to impose limits anyway http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8410302.stm

 

[Dave_]

one off:have a read of the wikipedia section on headphones dangers and volume solutions to understand the potential riskHere's the link

Having read the article, i still think Ian has it spot on...

idc: Common sense should be allowed to prevail and not nanny state legislation.

 

[Anonymous]

too late for that at least others take the issue seriously

if common sense prevailed noone would speed or smoke or drink to excess

 

[matengawhat]

one off:

again read the article

note also the use of the word portable in my original post

edit but it looks like the legislators are going to impose limits anyway http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8410302.stm

i was referring to your post and therefore the portable remark - didn't realise we had to spell everything out to ppl - just cause it goes loud doesn't mean you have to listen to it that loud - don't they make cars that go faster than 70mph - doesn't mean your going to constantly drive at 100!!!!

common sense

 

[The_Lhc]

matengawhat:don't they make cars that go faster than 70mph - doesn't mean your going to constantly drive at 100!!!

Whoops...

 

[matengawhat]

wouldn't want to live in your state - wouldn't be able to do anything you can't control everything! do you work for the health and safety executive if not you have def missed your calling

 

[The_Lhc]

one off:too late for that at least others take the issue seriously
if common sense prevailed noone would speed or smoke or drink to excess

Blimey, I thought I was dull...

One off, you do realise that you'll damage your hearing just as well if you turn normal amps/speakers up too loud, don't you?

FWIW I was listening to headphones, really screechy horrible sounding things, when I was teenager, at volumes that caused my mum to slap me whenever Clint Mansell said a rude word and my hearing is fine, better than most people's in fact. Or maybe it's just that I pay more attention to what I'm hearing.

 

[matengawhat]

it's just like reading the daily mail on here today!

to quote from the artical - Extended periods of the excessively loud volume may be damaging;[5][6] however, one hearing expert found that "fewer than 5% of users select volume levels and listen frequently enough to risk hearing loss

 

[Anonymous]

cant believe everyone has missed the point

basically if you go out into the street with your headphones on you turn the volume way up to compensate for all the background noise and its this that causes the damage youre not actually aware that you are listening at such high levels

try a simple test do just tha t go into the street or noisy location and listen to something at a level which allows you to hear the music not the background noise then turn your player off go to aquiet place let your ears adjust and have another listen

youll be surprised at just how loud youve been listening and it has been involuntary which is the point its this that causes the damage ill repeat that involuntary as in your unaware of it

the lhc thats not what the local police think just got another speeding ticket thats two this year already

 

[matengawhat]

that's why they have nr headphones and also some of the in ear ones with the moldable plugs do a really good job of preventing external noise

i know what your saying - i don't really listen to mine outside anyway so only sound i'm drowing out is the gfs tv. Also the ipod does come with an optional volume limiting which i do use if i lend to my nieces and nephews not sure that its something that need inforcing by law

think biggest problem to hearing really is unsigned bands in pubs!!! Music in clubs!!!

So your happy to speed and risk killing someone!!!!

- only kidding

hope you didn't mean two since january 1st - that's just unlucky

 

[Anonymous]

thanks mw

the speeding was just bad luck really downhill stretch everyone knows the camera is there and i went a little bit over without thinking thats all

mind you i do admit to going at a pretty rapid pace on the derestricted autobahns in germany

 

[The_Lhc]

one off:cant believe everyone has missed the point

We haven't but you might have done.

basically if you go out into the street with your headphones on you turn the volume way up to compensate for all the background noise and its this that causes the damage youre not actually aware that you are listening at such high levels

And I thought I held humans in low regard. People aren't that stupid, they DO know how loud they're listening to something, even in that kind of environment. Besides if the external noise is so loud that it requires people to turn their music up that loud then there's likely going to be damage inflicted by the external noise anyway. Sorry I just don't buy the idea that people have no awareness of the volume they're listening to. I always knew the volume I had my walkman at, FULL VOLUME!!! Rock and roll...

youll be surprised at just how loud youve been listening and it has been involuntary which is the point its this that causes the damage ill repeat that involuntary as in your unaware of it

Why are you so worked up about this anyway? People have always done things that are bad for them. There was a geezer in the paper last week, non-smoker, died of lung disease. Why? because he drove for a living and ALWAYS had a window open, because and I quote, "he didn't trust air conditioning" and he killed his lungs from all the pollution coming in through the window over 40 years.

That's a special kind of stupid, better not put that air-con on, it'll kill you! Oh...

makes you re-think the romance of a convertible though...

the lhc thats not what the local police think just got another speeding ticket thats two this year already

That was careless. I've never had one.

 

[matengawhat]

the_lhc:

That was careless. I've never had one.

in that case you've just been lucky like me! I don't believe that there are ppl that never speed just those that have never been caught yet!

 

[Clare Newsome]

Calm down, everyone....

Of course, the point of noise-cancelling/noise-isolating headphones is that you don't have to turn up the volume to compensate for external noise (or, if you do, by minimal amount). OK, you might never hear that bus bearing down on you, but at least your hearing will be unharmed

More here on the RNID's 'Dont Lose the Music' website dedicated to helping prevent music-lovers damage their hearing

 

[The_Lhc]

matengawhat:the_lhc:That was careless. I've never had one.

in that case you've just been lucky like me! I don't believe that there are ppl that never speed just those that have never been caught yet!

Indeed, I'm frequently amazed I've never been done. In my defence though I NEVER speed in urban areas, or any 30,40 or 50mph limit. Although if they bring in 50 limits on rural roads I'll be cheerfully ignoring that insanity.

Some people just deserve it though. In the town where my m-i-l lives there's a camera, in a 30 limit, it's VERY visible, everyone knows it's there. A neighbour of my m-i-l has been caught by it FOUR times, the last time doing over 40mph. They fined her over £400 because of the repeat nature. She indignantly wrote to the authority to question why it was such a big fine to which they replied that could fine her up to £1500 and ban her if they felt like it so she should consider herself lucky. She was outraged, went on about it for months and everyone else is sitting there thinking "you know the camera is there, you've been caught by it four times already, so you know it works, instead of complaining about it, why don't you just slow down?".

I mean, it's not rocket surgery or anything.

 

[Anonymous]

the_lhc:
one off:cant believe everyone has missed the point

We haven't but you might have done.

basically if you go out into the street with your headphones on you turn the volume way up to compensate for all the background noise and its this that causes the damage youre not actually aware that you are listening at such high levels

And I thought I held humans in low regard. People aren't that stupid, they DO know how loud they're listening to something, even in that kind of environment. Besides if the external noise is so loud that it requires people to turn their music up that loud then there's likely going to be damage inflicted by the external noise anyway. Sorry I just don't buy the idea that people have no awareness of the volume they're listening to. I always knew the volume I had my walkman at, FULL VOLUME!!! Rock and roll...

youll be surprised at just how loud youve been listening and it has been involuntary which is the point its this that causes the damage ill repeat that involuntary as in your unaware of it

Why are you so worked up about this anyway? People have always done things that are bad for them. There was a geezer in the paper last week, non-smoker, died of lung disease. Why? because he drove for a living and ALWAYS had a window open, because and I quote, "he didn't trust air conditioning" and he killed his lungs from all the pollution coming in through the window over 40 years.

That's a special kind of stupid, better not put that air-con on, it'll kill you! Oh...

makes you re-think the romance of a convertible though...

the lhc thats not what the local police think just got another speeding ticket thats two this year already

That was careless. I've never had one.

i give up still missing by a mile ah well once more its because you arent aware theres a problem because your not aware of the real volume level which seems reasonable in the conditions but in fact its not

if you are then obviously its your fault so no sympathy

by the way i take issue with you we are that stupid viz drinking speeding smoking watching big brother and so on but there is other stuff like hazards of asbestos where people just didnt know

edit hadnt read the other posts before id finished this one so will stop at this point

 

[The_Lhc]

one off:i give up still missing by a mile

No, I'm not, I understand the point completely, I just don't believe it to be true.

ah well once more its because you arent aware theres a problem because your not aware of the real volume level which seems reasonable in the conditions but in fact its not

Again, I just don't buy that.

by the way i take issue with you we are that stupid viz drinking speeding smoking

No, we aren't. Everybody knows that drinking and smoking (now, they didn't know 50 years ago, granted) and speeding are stupid, EVERYBODY, people who say otherwise are just trying to find an excuse to justify their own behaviour, they know it's stupid but they do it anyway because it's fun or they lack the self-control not to do it.

and so on but there is other stuff like hazards of asbestos where people just didnt know

Wouldn't deny that point for a minute.

 

[Anonymous]

one off:
cant believe everyone has missed the point

basically if you go out into the street with your headphones on you turn the volume way up to compensate for all the background noise and its this that causes the damage youre not actually aware that you are listening at such high levels

try a simple test do just tha t go into the street or noisy location and listen to something at a level which allows you to hear the music not the background noise then turn your player off go to aquiet place let your ears adjust and have another listen

youll be surprised at just how loud youve been listening and it has been involuntary which is the point its this that causes the damage ill repeat that involuntary as in your unaware of it

the lhc thats not what the local police think just got another speeding ticket thats two this year already

This has, for a long time, been a good reason for decent isolating earphones. My Shure 530s get such a snug fit that the volume on my Fuze rarely gets above 40%. You're right that people listening to cheap bud phones (or even open headphones) on public transport etc are likely to up the volume to compensate. Get yourself a decent pair of isolating phones and the problems goes away.

 

[idc]

One off, we do understand your point. What is needed is some education on what headphones to use where. If you are commuting you are best with noise isolation or isolating headphones (or earphones or buds or IE or whatever you want to call them) which leak a minimum of noise.

Many on the forum are aware of that. There are loads of examples of people asking for headphone recommendations, only to get a reply asking when and where they intend to use the headphones. I have seen (and done it myself) recommendations not to use open backed headphones for commuting because of the problems associated with such. So we do our bit for the health of peoples ears.

You are getting a bit of a negative reaction here because you are telling people something they already know and not listening when they say that they know.

 

[Anonymous]

idc i know headphones are your thing but please do read my posts carefully and youll see where people missed the point

i dont really think negative reaction has been the case at all and people are at liberty to agree or disagree with whatever they wish thats a forum after all

denial on the other hand is different but only one poster seemed to have problems with that

note also my original post was based on genuine concern rather than a political one and i quote

This thread was started as a way of getting people into the new headfi part of the forum, with a nice debate and a bit of mild controversy, which usually goes down well on the forum.

anyway i suggest we leave it there as its in the hands of the legislators and their advisors now plus as has been pointed out solutions to the problem both exist and are hopefully increasing in popularity

 

[professorhat]

one off, you do have to ask yourself though, if they're willing to pass legislation to cap the limit of volume on headphones and headphone amps just to protect the few people out there who are ignorant on volume level and hearing loss, why on earth are they not willing to pass any legislation on smoking, which actually kills people? Or drinking alcohol? Or maybe mandatory exercise regimes and diet programmes for the obese? When you look at it at like this - where does it stop - a limit on the number of sugary drinks you're allowed in a day to prevent tooth decay?

It's this "nanny state" regime where law is passed to protect the public from itself that I think people here are protesting about, rather than education into the risks. Absolutely, people should be made aware of what listening at high volumes does to your hearing, just as they should be made aware eating too much and doing no exercise makes you fat. But there shouldn't be laws passed to enforce these things - I'm quite capable of making my own decisions on how much food I eat, how much exercise I do and how loud I listen to music and I don't want someone else dictating this to me thanks very much!