Headphone newbie seeking recommendations

[Entrigo]

Completely new to the world of "proper" headphones (have only had Bluetooth NC ones).

I have been quite curious to try some for a while but always put it off, but time is ripe.

I have a Rega Elex-R amp, which has no headphone out so here I am looking for recommendations for both headphone amp and headphones.

My speakers are Focal Aria 906 which I like well enough - and looking at PMC/ ProAc as my upcoming upgrade. And I love the energy of the Rega Elex-R,

Ideally I would be looking for a amp and headphones which can paint a good soundstage and are resolving but not too dry.

I obviously considered the Rega Ear but read a few reviews /reports of a quite high noise floor which is quite off putting.

Budget - first of all I would be looking at the amp used/ex-demo and ideally looking be looking for around £100/150. Headphones I'd strongly prefer new but looking at £2-300 max.

Don't want to spend too much as my first pair, in case I decide headphones aren't for me - or more likely, in case I like it and quickly decide to upgrade to a higher end pair.

 

[RTHerringbone]

Do you know if you'd prefer / require open or closed-back? A simple generalisation is that open-back have advantages (more spacious sound) and disadvantages (sound leaks in and out).

I think there's an argument that as you cite soundstage as a requirement, then open-backed would perhaps be a better bet.

Then you have the choice between Dynamic Driver or Planar. Historically the latter were more expensive, but the rate at which models are appearing means that now last year's models are massively discounted to make them pretty comparable to DDs.

My initial thoughts would be that you may like the FiiO K11R2R which as new comes in at £150. The definition of "dry" can vary from person to person, but the R2R architecture can add some colour to the sound. It's not a particularly highly-revered architecture on sites where it and its acolytes appear to prioritise looking at graphs over listening, but I think it's an enjoyable sound.

The budget you've set for headphones is decent and you'll have loads of options, but I'd say you need to decide between those two thing: open vs. closed, and DD vs. Planar.

 

[PieterG]

My first question would be: are you going to use the headphones in an environment where sound leaking out might disturb people around you? (And vice versa, are there noises around you that will inevitably leak in and interfere with your listening?)

My headphones are closed back because i need them to be, but their design limits the openness and the width of the soundstage. On the positive side, they isolate, give more impact to bass, and have good detail. I made a safe choice and picked Sennheiser HD620s. I found that the pairing with a Fiio K11 R2R was not great, but that DAC/amp is practically impossible to beat for its price. It will probably match really well with open backs. (Again, Sennheiser is reasonably priced apart from flagship models, and in my opinion always a safe neutral choice.)

Your choice of Focal speakers suggests you prefer a bit of warmth and energy. With the right headphones (open back, moderate impedance) i suspect the K11 R2R would land in that sweet spot. It packs enough power, especially if you use the balanced output.

(@RTHerringbone i would love to try those Fiio FT7 you have 😉)

 

[RTHerringbone]

(@RTHerringbone i would love to try those Fiio FT7 you have 😉)

I think they're absolutely fantastic.

They're a less costly pair than those on my headphone setup, but they're being used through a more expensive system downstairs and I actually prefer the sound of the overall package down there. The FiiO are significantly better made than the HIFIMAN Stealth's and I also think they're more comfortable, which is just what you want for long listening sessions.

I also got mine for a good 10% less than I see them listed online at the moment 😎

 

[Jasonovich]

The above comments hold true, first decide if you want open back or closed.

FiiO have excellent budget planars (open), consider also Hifiman Sandaras the closed back is slightly cheaper than the open version.
FiiO also make excellent dynamic headphones, FT1, priced around £135.

If you considered buying second hand headamp, the Singxer SA1s Class A headphone amp are going for £250 on eBay, actual RPM (new version SA2) is about £600 new.

The Singxer's make any genre of music sound great. Really worth the investment, if you can find one.

The Singxer headamp you won't want to upgrade, not unless you're thinking of top end Gustard 😊

 

[Entrigo]

Do you know if you'd prefer / require open or closed-back? A simple generalisation is that open-back have advantages (more spacious sound) and disadvantages (sound leaks in and out).

I think there's an argument that as you cite soundstage as a requirement, then open-backed would perhaps be a better bet.

Then you have the choice between Dynamic Driver or Planar. Historically the latter were more expensive, but the rate at which models are appearing means that now last year's models are massively discounted to make them pretty comparable to DDs.

My initial thoughts would be that you may like the FiiO K11R2R which as new comes in at £150. The definition of "dry" can vary from person to person, but the R2R architecture can add some colour to the sound. It's not a particularly highly-revered architecture on sites where it and its acolytes appear to prioritise looking at graphs over listening, but I think it's an enjoyable sound.

The budget you've set for headphones is decent and you'll have loads of options, but I'd say you need to decide between those two thing: open vs. closed, and DD vs. Planar.

Thanks for that. Yes I ran a simple search and I came across the open/closed stumbling block already. Of course my instinct would be open but will need to think it through a little more.

The whole idea came as I moved my listening area to one half of a double living room, so that the other half could be a more visual/TV or just lounging area - with me no longer hogging the sofa as main listening spot 😆. Obviously we couldn't have TV and hi-fi on at the same time in any case,. And my wife likes to walk around with her own headphones on listening to podcasts, so sound leakage might not be a massive issue, but I'll still need to consider it more in depth.

As per sound and other, I do occasionally visit that website which we do not speak of as part of my due diligence, but not guided by measurements as much as from what I can hear. And I have always had a slight preference for the warmer side of neutral anyway, so wouldn't normally be welcome in purist, graph-gazing circles.

On the Fiio, I was reading someone's impressions on it the other day - and I think it might very well have been yours haha. Isn't that primarily a DAC though - and if so, wouldn't I be better off with just a dedicated headphone amp? I use the DAC in my Marantz SA8005 for those few times I need one, as the vast majority of my listening is done via vinyl.

 

[Entrigo]

My first question would be: are you going to use the headphones in an environment where sound leaking out might disturb people around you? (And vice versa, are there noises around you that will inevitably leak in and interfere with your listening?)

My headphones are closed back because i need them to be, but their design limits the openness and the width of the soundstage. On the positive side, they isolate, give more impact to bass, and have good detail. I made a safe choice and picked Sennheiser HD620s. I found that the pairing with a Fiio K11 R2R was not great, but that DAC/amp is practically impossible to beat for its price. It will probably match really well with open backs. (Again, Sennheiser is reasonably priced apart from flagship models, and in my opinion always a safe neutral choice.)

Your choice of Focal speakers suggests you prefer a bit of warmth and energy. With the right headphones (open back, moderate impedance) i suspect the K11 R2R would land in that sweet spot. It packs enough power, especially if you use the balanced output.

(@RTHerringbone i would love to try those Fiio FT7 you have 😉)

OK so open back will allow sound two ways/ be less "shielded" than close back? Makes sense thinking about it, but had not taken that into consideration.

I listen mainly to rock /alternative rock, so definitely like energy - and warmth I'd say a touch but definitely not soft, as getting more and more into resolution and detail.

Sennheiser were the first thing that came to mind as per headphones - as you say, it's the safe choice. Although I have to say, I had mixed experiences in the past - I seem to remember them being often described as very neutral to lean, but then I had a pair of Momentum ten years ago which were actually very "bassy" - to the point I then gifted them to my wife (not a fan of big bass).

 

[Entrigo]

The above comments hold true, first decide if you want open back or closed.

FiiO have excellent budget planars (open), consider also Hifiman Sandaras the closed back is slightly cheaper than the open version.
FiiO also make excellent dynamic headphones, FT1, priced around £135.

If you considered buying second hand headamp, the Singxer SA1s Class A headphone amp are going for £250 on eBay, actual RPM (new version SA2) is about £600 new.

The Singxer's make any genre of music sound great. Really worth the investment, if you can find one.

The Singxer headamp you won't want to upgrade, not unless you're thinking of top end Gustard 😊

Great, thanks for that. A lot of recommendations I would never have thought of, will look up Hifiman and Singxer.

 

[RTHerringbone]

The FiiO K11 and K13 are both combined DAC / Amps. I got one because my Wiim Ultra doesn't have an amp and I was being a bit of an aesthete - I wanted a pretty screen for my streamer. So the Wiim just acts as a streaming transport and the FiiO does the heavy lifting.

In your case @Entrigo I'd say yes, you can definitely just get a headphone amp if you're happy using the Marantz DAC (but I believe that is a relatively old piece of kit now, so the DACs in more contemporary units might be "better").

EDIT: I just had a very quick look and I think you may struggle to find an amp-only option at your price point. It seems the standard to have them bundled with a DAC in that corner of the market.

 

[DougK1]

Maybe look at Topping for a straight headphone amp only. I've got the A90D, however, it doesn't sound significantly better than the jack out on my CDP. If you've got the Marantz SA8005 try the hp jack on that first before spending money on a headamp, it's got a fine DAC in it.

 

[PieterG]

OK so open back will allow sound two ways/ be less "shielded" than close back? Makes sense thinking about it, but had not taken that into consideration.

The level of isolation (or leakage) still varies from model to model, but yes generally speaking it applies both ways: in and out. In the case of my HD620s it's almost night and day because they do isolate really well. When reading reviews of various alternatives i noticed quite a few comments about leaking "despite being closed backs". If you wear glasses, it could be difficult to get a good seal. The seal can make a big difference in bass presence.

A good pair of open backs tend to sound much wider, almost as if you're listening on your speakers. Bass is not really reduced but it has less impact because of the open construction. You'll probably prefer this. But ambient sounds are not blocked out, so open backs are not for noisy environments.

To your question on getting just an amp rather than a dac/amp: if your budget is the range of the Fiio K11 then you'll be hard pressed to find a better headphone amp than that one. The impedance of the headphones you choose is important here. If it's low like 20-50 ohms, your Marantz headphone out will probably be just fine. If you get into 150 ohms territory and higher, you'll appreciate the power of a strong amp, which the Fiio has. (Beyerdynamic has several 300 ohm models, but you wouldn't pick those anyway because they're often studio-style lean and dry.)

I guess my point is, if you fancy the K11, it has a very good dac and an excellent amp for less than what many similar separate amps or dacs cost. For me there was 1 gotcha: no EQ on this Fiio (K13 has it, but that's a higher price tag).

 

[PieterG]

Obviously we couldn't have TV and hi-fi on at the same time in any case.

I guess it depends on how things are hooked up.
This is one of the reasons why i use closed backs: my significant other watches daily soap after the news and i put some music on. With my old semi-open Philips cr8p cans we were annoying each other, but now we sit peacefully side by side each enjoying our own thing.

 

[Entrigo]

Maybe look at Topping for a straight headphone amp only. I've got the A90D, however, it doesn't sound significantly better than the jack out on my CDP. If you've got the Marantz SA8005 try the hp jack on that first before spending money on a headamp, it's got a fine DAC in it.

OK haven't thought about it - but that would mean using headphones only when playing through the Marantz (CD or streaming), which would leave out vinyl playback, which is the lion's share of my listening.

And as per streaming - would it be a significant difference from just using my Sony WH1000xm4 plugged into my iPhone?

 

[Jasonovich]

Maybe look at Topping for a straight headphone amp only. I've got the A90D, however, it doesn't sound significantly better than the jack out on my CDP. If you've got the Marantz SA8005 try the hp jack on that first before spending money on a headamp, it's got a fine DAC in it.

The headamp sound from my Marantz SA8005 is pretty good and will suffice until OP gets something better. Granted, his lion share of listening is vinyl.

The Marantz headphone socket out is bettered by the XDUOO TA-66 tube amp in terms of soundstage but SA8005 has a cleaner leaner sound and possibly more detailed. The tubes tend to add a little bit of their character, whereas the Marantz is more neutral.