Having read your reviews on cheap cables in your magazine and only having cheap Amazon BAsics 2.0m HDMI I decided i would splash out and buy a more expensive cable, after all you mention over and over how a better picture can be hard by spending more money on a better cable. So I decided on a Chord super shield to make the most of my Panasonic plasma tv and give the best picture and sound quality. The cable has 5 stars and is highly recomended by yourselves so should be far superior to my cheapo Amazon basic cable right, except that it wasnt and there was absolutely no improvement in sound or picture quality, sharpness or anything for that matter. So much for your review what hifi. Its a bit late now to send it back now and get my money back. How do you explain that.
HDMI cable reviews
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I think you've just ignited another religious debate. As an ex electronics engineer, I'd say if a digital cable works, it works. Others on this forum say they can detect differences and I've no reason to disbelieve them.
Well I didnt have any reason to question the review validity until I spent £45 on cable that i should have made a visible difference as per their review but didnt.
bigboss
Moderator
The general advice is to always demo a product before you buy. I didn't notice any difference either, so I'm happy with my cheap cables.
professorhat
Well-known member
huddslad said:
How long has it been? Have you contacted the retailer to say you're unhappy with the purchase and you'd like a refund? If it was a recent purchase and they're unwilling, then I wouldn't purchase from them in future - make sure they're aware of this and post your experience in a new thread so others are aware of their customer satisfaction policy (or lack of it).
i bought the 5 star rated 2008 award winning cable van den hul flat 1.4 (new version though), the sound quality is immediatley apparent, the clarity and detail in sound has transformed my home cinema system, i tryed chord but my sound fell flat again, i would'nt use any other hdmi lead unless it was van den hul. pictures pretty good to
Hang on a minute! If a tactical nuclear weapon went off nearby while you were watching a BluRay, the Chord Supershield might prevent annoying interference from the resultant electromagnetic pulse. Not sure WHFS&V have tested this scenario though.
Another experiment worth trying:
1) Write the binary number "10101010" on a piece of paper using a 10p biro.
2) Write the binary number "10101010" on a piece of paper using a £1000 gold-nibbed fountain pen.
3) Compare the two numbers. Are they the same?
Rant over.
1) Write the binary number "10101010" on a piece of paper using a 10p biro.
2) Write the binary number "10101010" on a piece of paper using a £1000 gold-nibbed fountain pen.
3) Compare the two numbers. Are they the same?
Rant over.
sos
Well-known member
Yet another experiment worth trying for those who can claim to see or hear a difference in HDMI cables:
Do a blinded comparison (not literally, which would of course make the picture somewhat difficult to assess).
Have a friend swap the HDMI cables over and then, without knowing which cable is in use, see if you can consistently tell which cable is which. If you are able to, freed from any 'psychovisual' effect, then you have some evidence to back the subjective claims up.
Do a blinded comparison (not literally, which would of course make the picture somewhat difficult to assess).
Have a friend swap the HDMI cables over and then, without knowing which cable is in use, see if you can consistently tell which cable is which. If you are able to, freed from any 'psychovisual' effect, then you have some evidence to back the subjective claims up.
kbarnak
Well-known member
Just to add to the pile - I stupidly spent £101.90 on 2x Wireworld Chroma 6 HDMI Cable
Chroma 6 1.0M/A. Should've bought cheaper version and saved £90. More fool me.
I swapped the Cables with cheaper ones and I couldn't see the difference on my Pansonic TX-P55VT30.
Chroma 6 1.0M/A. Should've bought cheaper version and saved £90. More fool me.
I swapped the Cables with cheaper ones and I couldn't see the difference on my Pansonic TX-P55VT30.
I bought a 5* cable and could not see/hear any difference on my Kuro/RS6 5:1 either. Don't worry, there will soon be a post telling you that you are eitherkbarnak said:
A. Blind.
B. Deaf.
C. Have an incorrectly set up TV.
D. Have dirty mains which means everything is so terrible that this is masking the difference.
E. Some combination of the above.
noogle said:
Yeah but it does not quite work that way. In practice though the 1's and O's are passed down the line as variations in voltage. This can lead to errors, inteference spikes can cause the zero voltage to be interpreted as a 1 by the time it reaches the other end. The longer the cable the more chance of inteference and errors. Expensive cables tend to be contructed better, and less prone to errors.
I have ixos and chord company 5m cables(less than £20 ebay) both perform satisfactorily on my set up. I also have a gametek? or similar from Game which I got free with PS3. I can easily see a difference on my tv when swapping between the gametek to either of the other cables.
When we group test HDMI cable we see and hear clear differences between them. The differences are more obvious in sound quality than they are in picture. We did a Big Question feature on this many months ago where the readers did not know what part of the system we were changing, and even then all three reliably spotted the differences between HDMI cables.
As with every other type of product we test, we can only report as we find. We always say that you should try something before buying it. That applies to cables as much as with everything else.
If people don't notice any difference between premium cables and cheaper (or free) alternatives, then that's fine too. At least you'll save some money.
As with every other type of product we test, we can only report as we find. We always say that you should try something before buying it. That applies to cables as much as with everything else.
If people don't notice any difference between premium cables and cheaper (or free) alternatives, then that's fine too. At least you'll save some money.
The_Lhc
Well-known member
def lugs said:
If there's enough electromagnetic interference to corrupt the data in a shielded HDMI cable, then I very much doubt your BDP, TV or PC would still be working. Could be time to take shelter, as a tactical nuclear device has probably gone off in the vicinity (see earlier post).
Not quite the scale of electromagnetic radiation I had in mind...lol. I was thinking more along the lines of the power supplies and the myriad of cabling and plugs that my HDMI nests in.
I had assumed that with a cable built to spec and the error correction capability of the digital format - that Bob should have been my mam's best brother! In my experience this does not appear to be the case.
I had assumed that with a cable built to spec and the error correction capability of the digital format - that Bob should have been my mam's best brother! In my experience this does not appear to be the case.
Easy to test - move the HDMI cable nearer then further away from the mains cables and see if the picture changes.
I have done some further blind test using a third cable a QED reference from a mate that cost over £100. swapped the cables round without knowing which was which and still couldnt tell the difference Between the cheapo aMazon cable and the chord and Qed cables. Gona see see if I can send the cable back and get refund. Its bit hard to try before you buy WHAT HIFI as you recomend when buying over the internet, that is where the best prices are, my local hifi shop has a limited range of gear in stock. Its interesting to see that i'm not the only one on the forum to report that that exspensive dont appear to give any improvement over cheapo cables. Dont believe exverything you read about hifi cables is what I have learned from this experience.
Huddslad
I myself do not have expensive cables (less than £20) but there was a visual difference between the cables I have and my original. It could be that the cable I had was defficient in some aspect - e.g. connectors not bonded correctly.
It you bought online and return within 7 days you have a right to return it. look up distance selling regulations.
I myself do not have expensive cables (less than £20) but there was a visual difference between the cables I have and my original. It could be that the cable I had was defficient in some aspect - e.g. connectors not bonded correctly.
It you bought online and return within 7 days you have a right to return it. look up distance selling regulations.
Chord supersheild hdmi i also found made the picture quality a bit washed out. However if possible please demo the Chord active hdmi, on 40+hdtv and Sky hd , Blu-ray. There was imho an improvement in both PQ and SQ. The improvement was a worthy upgrade for the price imo.
def lugs said:
Anothe rexplanation of what 'digital' is about:
write a figure on a wall. say, 3. you can see it clearly.
now put a clear glass between you and the wall. yoo can see the figure well.
now replace the glass with clouded one and then with more and more clouded ones. as you do it you will see less and less of the '3' but until you loose the shape completely you will still be completely certain that it is 3 and none else even if the ,visibility' is very low. only after the visibility drops so severely you cannot even see the general shape you may not see any more what the figure is.
instead of smoked glass you can use checkered-painted glass oe even cover part of the figure completely. the result will be the same - you will be able to tell exactly what the figure is untill you loose too much then you suddenly cannot tell at all.
this is what digital is about - does not matter how good or bad you 'see', you still can 'tell' 100% and then you loose it.
now, each digital signal is transmitted as code and code have varying degree of error resilience, sometimes very strong so it is very difficult to get a dropout. what also matters is what is the bitrate capacity of the transmission system and how well ithe signal is below the max rated.
what it means for digital signals/cables is that if the transmission system works, it works 100% - there is no quality difference. when it does not work you get a dropout (e.g. bricking on tv or cracking on cd...)
professorhat
Well-known member
huddslad said:
Note the distance selling regulations already mentioned and also some stores are more than happy to give you a trial period (yes even online ones) to try before you buy, such as Clearer Audio and Russ Andrews, which both give a 60 day money back guarantee for anything you buy.
In old CRT TVs, the colours where controlled by voltage to each of the RGB guns. If you passed your TV signal down a crap cable, then the signal would become weaker and then when the tuner converted the signal data into it's three colour parts it would be washed out.
I think people are applying this knowledge from years of analouge equipment and cables.
HDMI transports each RGB part in a seperate cable. For 24bit colour thats 8 bits per R,G & B channel.
0 down each channel is black, 255 down each is white.
So if the screen was showing pure white and then red channel got corrupt and then a bit got interpreted wrong so it goes from 11111111 (255) to 011111111 (127) then that would half the amount of red and that pixel would go a turquoise colour.
But that couldn't really happen as the data is compressed a bit of corruption means a chunk of data wouldn't get uncompressed correctly and the chances of the 3 channels getting reduced by the same amount so as to make the data look "washed out" is unlikeley.
What I do think is happening to people, is they have different speed cables.
A v1.0 cable runs at 165Mhz and a v1.3 cable runs at 340Mhz (max speeds.) The v1 cable supports 24bit colour and the 1.3(&1.4) cable supports 48bit and deep colour etc.
So... i reckon when people see a difference it's down to different classes of cable. They may well be going from 24bit to 48bit colour and genuily seen a differennce, but not know they have different type of cable (like cat 5 & cat 6 of ethernet for gigabit - cat 5 can't do it, but cat 6 can and they are virtually identical and both work for the most part whilst connecting your amp to your router.)
Bear in mind though, you can pick up a £10 1.4 cable - and a couple of years back before 1.3 came about, the then £100+ cables would have been (and still will be to this day be classed as) v1.0.
Maybe cheaper cables are specced at 1.0 and expensive ones at 1.4 for the most part, but a 340Mhz £3 cable will do the same as a 340Mhz £100 one. Like wise a £3 165Mhz cable will do the same as a £45 165Mhz cable.
BTW since January they can't sell them as 1.x they sell them on the Mhz.
And here i'm talking a bout a cable of less that 4 meters long - after about 5 meters you do need more exspensive cables, but even then the colours don't "wash out"
I think people are applying this knowledge from years of analouge equipment and cables.
HDMI transports each RGB part in a seperate cable. For 24bit colour thats 8 bits per R,G & B channel.
0 down each channel is black, 255 down each is white.
So if the screen was showing pure white and then red channel got corrupt and then a bit got interpreted wrong so it goes from 11111111 (255) to 011111111 (127) then that would half the amount of red and that pixel would go a turquoise colour.
But that couldn't really happen as the data is compressed a bit of corruption means a chunk of data wouldn't get uncompressed correctly and the chances of the 3 channels getting reduced by the same amount so as to make the data look "washed out" is unlikeley.
What I do think is happening to people, is they have different speed cables.
A v1.0 cable runs at 165Mhz and a v1.3 cable runs at 340Mhz (max speeds.) The v1 cable supports 24bit colour and the 1.3(&1.4) cable supports 48bit and deep colour etc.
So... i reckon when people see a difference it's down to different classes of cable. They may well be going from 24bit to 48bit colour and genuily seen a differennce, but not know they have different type of cable (like cat 5 & cat 6 of ethernet for gigabit - cat 5 can't do it, but cat 6 can and they are virtually identical and both work for the most part whilst connecting your amp to your router.)
Bear in mind though, you can pick up a £10 1.4 cable - and a couple of years back before 1.3 came about, the then £100+ cables would have been (and still will be to this day be classed as) v1.0.
Maybe cheaper cables are specced at 1.0 and expensive ones at 1.4 for the most part, but a 340Mhz £3 cable will do the same as a 340Mhz £100 one. Like wise a £3 165Mhz cable will do the same as a £45 165Mhz cable.
BTW since January they can't sell them as 1.x they sell them on the Mhz.
And here i'm talking a bout a cable of less that 4 meters long - after about 5 meters you do need more exspensive cables, but even then the colours don't "wash out"
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