John Duncan
Well-known member
Oh well. It looks like there's a pretty good chance that the showdown may take place. I look forward to the results with some excitement.
JohnDuncan:A follow up, like long term tests of Ford Fiestas in What Car?
Not a bad idea, straws or otherwise.
Not a bad idea, straws or otherwise.
Clare Newsome:
All good feedback (once again)
We have actually already discussed some kind of reader panel idea, too - and you'll also notice we're running a Readers' Award for the first time. Its modest start on the Forums will be joined by a dedicated voting site currently being built.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, we'll be considering how best to tackle this test in the coming weeks, so please keep the ideas/suggestions coming (without the presumptions of how we do/don't run the magazine!)
I would very much like the following tests:
-very affordable dac based solutions (bought from the internet, there are loads of options)
-informing how well a certain priced dac stacks up against a similarly priced cd-player
-Nas based hdd wav played through budget dac (beresford dac?), mid-priced, high-end dac (Cyrus X-dac?)
-same through usb dac , budget(tascam usb, edirol UA25?), mid-priced, high-end dac (aqvox usb?)
-mac versus similar priced pc through the same dac (oh dear)
Edited post as it seemed to be causing misunderstanding
All good feedback (once again)
We have actually already discussed some kind of reader panel idea, too - and you'll also notice we're running a Readers' Award for the first time. Its modest start on the Forums will be joined by a dedicated voting site currently being built.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, we'll be considering how best to tackle this test in the coming weeks, so please keep the ideas/suggestions coming (without the presumptions of how we do/don't run the magazine!)
I would very much like the following tests:
-very affordable dac based solutions (bought from the internet, there are loads of options)
-informing how well a certain priced dac stacks up against a similarly priced cd-player
-Nas based hdd wav played through budget dac (beresford dac?), mid-priced, high-end dac (Cyrus X-dac?)
-same through usb dac , budget(tascam usb, edirol UA25?), mid-priced, high-end dac (aqvox usb?)
-mac versus similar priced pc through the same dac (oh dear)
Edited post as it seemed to be causing misunderstanding
I am not sure that some of those things are possible. does the Beresford DAC have direct ehternet in for example?
welshboy:I am not sure that some of those things are possible. does the Beresford DAC have direct ehternet in for example?
The beresford dac doesn't have an ethernet in, nor have any other dacs that I'm aware of!
The dac just does the conversion from digital to analogue. For downloading the digital music file a computer is essential AFAIK.
The beresford dac doesn't have an ethernet in, nor have any other dacs that I'm aware of!
The dac just does the conversion from digital to analogue. For downloading the digital music file a computer is essential AFAIK.
I read with interest the review of the Naim HDX in the November 08 issue.....
".....Discs copied to it (the Naim HDX) don't just sound as good as the original; in some cases - well in most cases, actually - they sound better......
Do not underestimate the significance this quote. It sounds the death knell for CDPs as an audiophile source.
".....Discs copied to it (the Naim HDX) don't just sound as good as the original; in some cases - well in most cases, actually - they sound better......
Do not underestimate the significance this quote. It sounds the death knell for CDPs as an audiophile source.
PJPro:I read with interest the review of the Naim HDX in the November 08 issue.....".....Discs copied to it (the Naim HDX) don't just sound as good as the original; in some cases - well in most cases, actually - they sound better......
Do not underestimate the significance this quote. It sounds the death knell for CDPs as an audiophile source.
ÿ
Many have been bawling this for ages, it's not the technology, it's the willingness to let go of the past that's the problem.
Do not underestimate the significance this quote. It sounds the death knell for CDPs as an audiophile source.
ÿ
Many have been bawling this for ages, it's not the technology, it's the willingness to let go of the past that's the problem.
PJPro:Do not underestimate the significance this quote. It sounds the death knell for CDPs as an audiophile source.
Good Lord, I never even thought of that while I was typing it.
But then again there are some CD players that sound considerably better than the HDX, so there's life in the elderly canine yet.
Good Lord, I never even thought of that while I was typing it.
But then again there are some CD players that sound considerably better than the HDX, so there's life in the elderly canine yet.
Oh, I wasn't suggesting that the HDX is necessarily the best source available. But I do think it significant that once the file is on the HDD, it sounds better than via the CD transport.
PJPro:Oh, I wasn't suggesting that the HDX is necessarily the best source available. But I do think it significant that once the file is on the HDD, it sounds better than via the CD transport.
Indeed. And I have to say this is the first time I have found this to be the case.
Indeed. And I have to say this is the first time I have found this to be the case.
Hoorah, and a great big union flag be raised, by jimlad!
The HDD is 'obviously' a better transport than any optical disc drive.
And while the Naim may be vastly overpriced, the result between CD and HDD ÿis how it should be...ÿ
The HDD is 'obviously' a better transport than any optical disc drive.
And while the Naim may be vastly overpriced, the result between CD and HDD ÿis how it should be...ÿ
pudley:
Hoorah, and a great big union flag be raised, by jimlad!
The HDD is 'obviously' a better transport than any optical disc drive.
And while the Naim may be vastly overpriced, the result between CD and HDD is how it should be...
Did we say any of that?
I think all we said was that, in this particular implementation, HDD copies of discs can sound better than the original CD.
But the particular doesn't always extend to the general.
Hoorah, and a great big union flag be raised, by jimlad!
The HDD is 'obviously' a better transport than any optical disc drive.
And while the Naim may be vastly overpriced, the result between CD and HDD is how it should be...
Did we say any of that?
I think all we said was that, in this particular implementation, HDD copies of discs can sound better than the original CD.
But the particular doesn't always extend to the general.
No matter anyoo what was said. The fact remaineth still that when reading a digital file (such as a music track on a CD), is best and most pleasantly served by using the best 'transport' for that type of file.
There is no question which media will give better results, between a HDD and a loose optical disc.
At the pricepoint Naim are, then there would be zero excuse for the HDD version sounding any worse than the CD, even if I am pleasantly surprised by the findings that it is Better...
ÿRoll on the future, don't get left behind in a wake of retro-wish-making.
There is no question which media will give better results, between a HDD and a loose optical disc.
At the pricepoint Naim are, then there would be zero excuse for the HDD version sounding any worse than the CD, even if I am pleasantly surprised by the findings that it is Better...
ÿRoll on the future, don't get left behind in a wake of retro-wish-making.
PJPro:I read with interest the review of the Naim HDX in the November 08 issue.....
".....Discs copied to it (the Naim HDX) don't just sound as good as the original; in some cases - well in most cases, actually - they sound better......
Do not underestimate the significance this quote. It sounds the death knell for CDPs as an audiophile source.
The review for the Yamaha HDD1500 a few years back said the same thing if memory serves rightly. I'm not sure about the death knell though; I think you'd probably find manufacturers would simply raise their game (alright, not so simple, but you get my drift).
However, we're then relying on the benefits of trickle down technology for at £4000 (was it?) it's not going to be in many living rooms sporting a Toshiba SD370 and an iPod nano anytime soon...!
".....Discs copied to it (the Naim HDX) don't just sound as good as the original; in some cases - well in most cases, actually - they sound better......
Do not underestimate the significance this quote. It sounds the death knell for CDPs as an audiophile source.
The review for the Yamaha HDD1500 a few years back said the same thing if memory serves rightly. I'm not sure about the death knell though; I think you'd probably find manufacturers would simply raise their game (alright, not so simple, but you get my drift).
However, we're then relying on the benefits of trickle down technology for at £4000 (was it?) it's not going to be in many living rooms sporting a Toshiba SD370 and an iPod nano anytime soon...!
I am not quite sure why the mention, even of 'trickle down tech' from the Naim HDX. It is nothing new. It's simply a very expensive 'hifi looking' PC with a cd rom drive,a media player and a half decent DAC.
I imagine given the same, or in fact half the budget, one could put together a better sounding system quite easily, but then it would be a hassle for many, and wouldn't have the same look, or feel.
Personally, given £4500 to spend on a HDD based system, I would put together my own. The resale value of Naim is usually quite high, but I somehow doubt it in this case.ÿ
I imagine given the same, or in fact half the budget, one could put together a better sounding system quite easily, but then it would be a hassle for many, and wouldn't have the same look, or feel.
Personally, given £4500 to spend on a HDD based system, I would put together my own. The resale value of Naim is usually quite high, but I somehow doubt it in this case.ÿ
It is nothing new. It's simply a very expensive 'hifi looking' PC with a cd rom drive,a media player and a half decent DAC.
i totally agree pudley, in material terms it appears to be poor value for money.
i think though that if i could afford to drop £4500 on something and not miss the money, i would have one, simply because it looks cool, is convenient and looks simple to use. that probably describes the hdx's target market.
i totally agree pudley, in material terms it appears to be poor value for money.
i think though that if i could afford to drop £4500 on something and not miss the money, i would have one, simply because it looks cool, is convenient and looks simple to use. that probably describes the hdx's target market.
Craig M.:
It is nothing new. It's simply a very expensive 'hifi looking' PC with a cd rom drive,a media player and a half decent DAC.
i totally agree pudley, in material terms it appears to be poor value for money.
i think though that if i could afford to drop £4500 on something and not miss the money, i would have one, simply because it looks cool, is convenient and looks simple to use. that probably describes the hdx's target market.
I think the price has to come down a lot further. You can get perfectly decent PC's with 1TB internal drives for £500. You can buy good quality PVR's for less than £500 so the price point of a HiFi music server in a one box solution needs to get to below £800 IMHO before it can be taken seriously. It's not as if you need massive processing power so we are only talking a hard drive, simple processor, CD drive, decent DAC and perhaps a raid configuration and some good passive cooling. Even if you add a phono pre-amp to allow archiveing of vinyl it's should be able to be delivered at less than £1k.
I think the problem is that so far nobody has looked at how to do it properly. It needs a PC maker and a HiFi maker to collaborate IMHO.
It is nothing new. It's simply a very expensive 'hifi looking' PC with a cd rom drive,a media player and a half decent DAC.
i totally agree pudley, in material terms it appears to be poor value for money.
i think though that if i could afford to drop £4500 on something and not miss the money, i would have one, simply because it looks cool, is convenient and looks simple to use. that probably describes the hdx's target market.
I think the price has to come down a lot further. You can get perfectly decent PC's with 1TB internal drives for £500. You can buy good quality PVR's for less than £500 so the price point of a HiFi music server in a one box solution needs to get to below £800 IMHO before it can be taken seriously. It's not as if you need massive processing power so we are only talking a hard drive, simple processor, CD drive, decent DAC and perhaps a raid configuration and some good passive cooling. Even if you add a phono pre-amp to allow archiveing of vinyl it's should be able to be delivered at less than £1k.
I think the problem is that so far nobody has looked at how to do it properly. It needs a PC maker and a HiFi maker to collaborate IMHO.
fatboyslimfast
Well-known member
But isn't it a case here of "one size" definitely doesn't fit all?
A squeezebox with an outboard dac may suit for some, an Apple TV with network storage for others, a PC in a study somewhere streaming to an airport express...
There are lots of options to suit various peoples homes/requirements.
Personally I would love an HDX, as I love what it does (and I'm a Naim fan). But I get the same basic operation using a 2nd hand small form factor HP desktop off ebay with a 500Gb disk and sound card with optical out in it and a beresford for £250 all in.
Not as swish or high-end I grant you, but does the job for me. And believe me when I say it sounds fab.
But if I had £4500 burning a hole in my debit card (and nothing better to spend it on) then I'd be there. Seriously. That's the market they are catering for.
Give Cambridge or someone similar a chance and I'm sure they'll have something more price-competitive on the market soon...
A squeezebox with an outboard dac may suit for some, an Apple TV with network storage for others, a PC in a study somewhere streaming to an airport express...
There are lots of options to suit various peoples homes/requirements.
Personally I would love an HDX, as I love what it does (and I'm a Naim fan). But I get the same basic operation using a 2nd hand small form factor HP desktop off ebay with a 500Gb disk and sound card with optical out in it and a beresford for £250 all in.
Not as swish or high-end I grant you, but does the job for me. And believe me when I say it sounds fab.
But if I had £4500 burning a hole in my debit card (and nothing better to spend it on) then I'd be there. Seriously. That's the market they are catering for.
Give Cambridge or someone similar a chance and I'm sure they'll have something more price-competitive on the market soon...
John Duncan
Well-known member
They did, about three years ago, and now it's 300 quid (primarily cos it only got four stars, I'd wager).
fatboyslimfast
Well-known member
True, but it's not quite a user-friendly (or Apple if you like) as the HDX (mono screen, no album artwork etc) - I don't think it will be long before they up their game, so to speak.
John Duncan
Well-known member
Yes, I have been saying this for ages. In fact I did a picture somewhere.....
Though I think that had no disk transport, was only a netwrok player. I think that now they've done the DACMagic they've clearly notied that hard drive-based music is a market worth tapping.
Though I think that had no disk transport, was only a netwrok player. I think that now they've done the DACMagic they've clearly notied that hard drive-based music is a market worth tapping.
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