HDD vs CD show down

[PJPro]

I've made some doubtless controversal comments regarding HDD audio in the past eg see quote

PJPro:Wake up people. CD is on it's last legs. We can argue the toss through countless threads but it won't change the inevitable. MP3 is not going to last either....it's a product of slow internet speeds and limited storage.

Whether the masses understand or appreciate the difference between lossy and lossless is irrelevant. Devices and online stores will migrate to lossless eventually as storage and download speeds increase. Why? As a marketing strategy (think razors - how many blades do they have now?).

The audiophile fraternity will also move on after they've made a fuss. Some people just don't like change. However, with the introduction of dedicated audiophile devices the shift is inevitable.

Think HDD (ideally solid state) storage, network enabled, downloaded bit perfect files direct from studio, remote handsets (a la Squeezebox Duet) or TV connectivity coupled with all the things you currently find in CDPs or an external DAC....hell, why wouldn't you want that? In fact, the PS3 isn't far off my ideal specification it seems (especially if you use a USB memory stick for storage Note: I haven't actually tried this. Perhaps I should).

The only thing necessary to get the ball rolling is for a device to come out with Cyrus or Arcam on the front (it seems). Naim made a good stab.....but the weak point I suspect is still the CD transport and ripping software. Cyrus have wasted a heap of R&D money IMO. Should have been a little braver and lead the Hifi industry into the new frontier from the front. In fact, I would be absolutely amazed if the major players aren't already ploughing a bit of money in this unavoidable future.

Oh and by the way. The Ashley bashing is getting a bit wearing. I don't think he is the tireless self promoter that some accuse him of. He's got a lot of interesting thing to say and generates a lot of entertaining debate on the forum.

Why not have a showdown in the mag? The new Cyrus CDP against a PC/Mac, EAC ripped .flac file and a decent DAC. Might even provide an opportunity to compare DACs.....Harmony, Stello (or Russ Andrews derivative of the Stellos), etc. It has to be a DAC from this price bracket to have a chance of taking on the Cyrus.

What about it? The most heated debates on this forum (power leads apart) seem to focus on HDD audio.......and the mag does state its pioneering credentials in the first few pages of every addition edition.

Might be able to combine the showdown by using a pair of Ashley's active speakers!

 

[Anonymous]

PJPro:I've made some doubtless controversal comments regarding HDD audio in the past eg see quote

PJPro:Wake up people. CD is on it's last legs. We can argue the toss through countless threads but it won't change the inevitable. MP3 is not going to last either....it's a product of slow internet speeds and limited storage.

Whether the masses understand or appreciate the difference between lossy and lossless is irrelevant. Devices and online stores will migrate to lossless eventually as storage and download speeds increase. Why? As a marketing strategy (think razors - how many blades do they have now?).

The audiophile fraternity will also move on after they've made a fuss. Some people just don't like change. However, with the introduction of dedicated audiophile devices the shift is inevitable.

Think HDD (ideally solid state) storage, network enabled, downloaded bit perfect files direct from studio, remote handsets (a la Squeezebox Duet) or TV connectivity coupled with all the things you currently find in CDPs or an external DAC....hell, why wouldn't you want that? In fact, the PS3 isn't far off my ideal specification it seems (especially if you use a USB memory stick for storage Note: I haven't actually tried this. Perhaps I should).

The only thing necessary to get the ball rolling is for a device to come out with Cyrus or Arcam on the front (it seems). Naim made a good stab.....but the weak point I suspect is still the CD transport and ripping software. Cyrus have wasted a heap of R&D money IMO. Should have been a little braver and lead the Hifi industry into the new frontier from the front. In fact, I would be absolutely amazed if the major players aren't already ploughing a bit of money in this unavoidable future.

Oh and by the way. The Ashley bashing is getting a bit wearing. I don't think he is the tireless self promoter that some accuse him of. He's got a lot of interesting thing to say and generates a lot of entertaining debate on the forum.

Why not have a showdown in the mag? The new Cyrus CDP against a PC/Mac, EAC ripped .flac file and a decent DAC. Might even provide an opportunity to compare DACs.....Harmony, Stello (or Russ Andrews derivative of the Stellos), etc. It has to be a DAC from this price bracket to have a chance of taking on the Cyrus.

What about it? The most heated debates on this forum (power leads apart) seem to focus on HDD audio.......and the mag does state its pioneering credentials in the first few pages of every addition edition.

Might be able to combine the showdown by using a pair of Ashley's active speakers!

Great idea that's not going to happen any time soon (in the what hifi test rooms at least).
They have probably already planned all their major test until the end of this year,
the website still needs lots of work,
it isn't in the interest of hifi brands, shops & marketing revenue and finally from what I've seen the mag only focuses on main stream brands and solutions.
So, in my point of view, it's not going to happen until some put all this together in one product, but don't call it a computer, & give it a reasonable price and look.
That's not going to happen any time soon either, because computers are cheap because of sheer numbers in sale, hifi isn't, the naim and linn products a case in point.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Why not, Solomon1 - do you determine the content of the mag? I think not...

 

[Anonymous]

Clare Newsome:Why not, Solomon1 - do you determine the content of the mag? I think not...

Then proof me wrong by putting it on test. In this case I would gladly be wrong.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Already on the agenda....

 

[Anonymous]

Clare Newsome:Already on the agenda....

When?

 

[Clare Newsome]

We've got a ton of new kit coming in for Awards judging (it was second deadline today for entries).

We're going to see what's in, what we need to get in, then go from there.

We've also got an Ultimate Guide to new tech- including massive section on music streaming etc - due by the end of the year, so we're working to a set deadline!

 

[Anonymous]

Clare Newsome:We've got a ton of new kit coming in for Awards judging (it was second deadline today for entries).

We're going to see what's in, what we need to get in, then go from there.

We've also got an Ultimate Guide to new tech- including massive section on music streaming etc - due by the end of the year, so we're working to a set deadline!

Please let us know when you know. Will it all be covered in the ultimate guide to new tech or are there also upcoming tests going to appear in the regular monthly magazine?

 

[Clare Newsome]

We're a caring, sharing brand family, so you're likely to see our efforts in several places - the content will even be available to our overseas issues, plus this website (naturally).

Oh, and it's also worth remembering - as there seems to be some mistaken belief that we're 'against' computer-based entertainment - that our entire presentation at the Bristol Sound and Vision show back in February was based on just that. Not a CD player in sight

 

[Andrew Everard]

Solomon1:Great idea that's not going to happen any time soon (in the what hifi test rooms at least).
They have probably already planned all their major test until the end of this year,
the website still needs lots of work,
it isn't in the interest of hifi brands, shops & marketing revenue and finally from what I've seen the mag only focuses on main stream brands and solutions.
So, in my point of view, it's not going to happen until some put all this together in one product, but don't call it a computer, & give it a reasonable price and look.
That's not going to happen any time soon either, because computers are cheap because of sheer numbers in sale, hifi isn't, the naim and linn products a case in point.

Thanks for all the insight - at least i now know what I'll be doing when I get into the office on Monday.

But interested in that 'from what I've seen' - is that a case of criticising without checking it out for yourself?

And there's no beating a good conspiracy theory. is there?

 

[Clare Newsome]

Especially one that was edited and augmented way after I replied to the initial post

 

[Clare Newsome]

PJPro:......and the mag does state its pioneering credentials in the first few pages of every edition.

Also worth pointing out the Product of the Year Award we gave to Apple's Airport Express back in 2004 - we even created a whole new category to honour it.... It's been a highlighted best buy in our Buyer's Guide ever since.

 

[Ajani]

PJPro:I've made some doubtless controversal comments regarding HDD audio in the past eg see quote

PJPro:Wake up people. CD is on it's last legs. We can argue the toss through countless threads but it won't change the inevitable. MP3 is not going to last either....it's a product of slow internet speeds and limited storage.

Whether the masses understand or appreciate the difference between lossy and lossless is irrelevant. Devices and online stores will migrate to lossless eventually as storage and download speeds increase. Why? As a marketing strategy (think razors - how many blades do they have now?).

The audiophile fraternity will also move on after they've made a fuss. Some people just don't like change. However, with the introduction of dedicated audiophile devices the shift is inevitable.

Think HDD (ideally solid state) storage, network enabled, downloaded bit perfect files direct from studio, remote handsets (a la Squeezebox Duet) or TV connectivity coupled with all the things you currently find in CDPs or an external DAC....hell, why wouldn't you want that? In fact, the PS3 isn't far off my ideal specification it seems (especially if you use a USB memory stick for storage Note: I haven't actually tried this. Perhaps I should).

The only thing necessary to get the ball rolling is for a device to come out with Cyrus or Arcam on the front (it seems). Naim made a good stab.....but the weak point I suspect is still the CD transport and ripping software. Cyrus have wasted a heap of R&D money IMO. Should have been a little braver and lead the Hifi industry into the new frontier from the front. In fact, I would be absolutely amazed if the major players aren't already ploughing a bit of money in this unavoidable future.

Oh and by the way. The Ashley bashing is getting a bit wearing. I don't think he is the tireless self promoter that some accuse him of. He's got a lot of interesting thing to say and generates a lot of entertaining debate on the forum.

Why not have a showdown in the mag? The new Cyrus CDP against a PC/Mac, EAC ripped .flac file and a decent DAC. Might even provide an opportunity to compare DACs.....Harmony, Stello (or Russ Andrews derivative of the Stellos), etc. It has to be a DAC from this price bracket to have a chance of taking on the Cyrus.

What about it? The most heated debates on this forum (power leads apart) seem to focus on HDD audio.......and the mag does state its pioneering credentials in the first few pages of every addition edition.

Might be able to combine the showdown by using a pair of Ashley's active speakers!

Nice idea.... Except I'd rather see the test done using say, Cyrus' top of the line Transport DAC Combo verus say a Squeezebox with the Same Cyrus DAC (so that differences in sound are clearly not attributable to the Different DACs being used).... something like that would really either prove/disprove whether HDD audio has the potential to replace CD Players... Since the only real question in some people's minds is whether Squeezebox, Sonos, AppleTV etc are good transports...

 

[Anonymous]

Clare Newsome:
Especially one that was edited and augmented way after I replied to the initial post

I just took the effort to explain myself. English isn't my native language, so I have to take my time.

I admit I took a strong stance, it's just that I feel I and others have brought up the subject a couple of times without you guys picking it up.

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:
Solomon1:Great idea that's not going to happen any time soon (in the what hifi test rooms at least).
They have probably already planned all their major test until the end of this year,
the website still needs lots of work,
it isn't in the interest of hifi brands, shops & marketing revenue and finally from what I've seen the mag only focuses on main stream brands and solutions.
So, in my point of view, it's not going to happen until some put all this together in one product, but don't call it a computer, & give it a reasonable price and look.
That's not going to happen any time soon either, because computers are cheap because of sheer numbers in sale, hifi isn't, the naim and linn products a case in point.

Thanks for all the insight - at least i now know what I'll be doing when I get into the office on Monday.

But interested in that 'from what I've seen' - is that a case of criticising without checking it out for yourself?

And there's no beating a good conspiracy theory. is there?

It's my pleasure, Andrew. If you keep playing Mr. Waldorf, I'll play Statler.

Conspiracy theories are not my thing. I think there's been a misunderstanding due to my views expressed on the costs of the naim and the linn hard drive based systems, mind you: it's not steered towards the systems themselves, I'm merely disappointed that they're virtually unattainable for me and many other hifi enthusiasts. Could also be that some things I said firmly tongue in cheek came across differently. It's hard to express irony in written words.
Anyway, if there's something in my way of reacting to posts that upsets you, let me know and I'll seriously consider changing it.

 

[PJPro]

Just for the record, my request is all about identifying an article for the mag....one which I am sure would provide interesting reading for a lot of readers.......and enable the mag to reinforce its pioneering credentials.

It has nothing to do with conspiracies, cover ups or shady deals between the mag and manufacturers. If I thought the mag was involved in such things, I certainly would not subscribe to it. I assume independence and objectivity (the latter being extremely difficult as we are all biased in some way or other).

Should my request be seriously considered by the editorial team, I would ask that the team do all that they can to ensure the article is as conclusive as possible and not open to critism.

To try and minimise critism, why not consider asking the forum/readership for ideas to scope out a review for one article every month/quarter? You could even select some of the readership/forum to form part of the review panel (JD, fr0g, Prof Hat, JoelSim, Drummerman and Solomon spring to mind). I know you have done this before, so I guess this is a request for more of the same.

 

[Anonymous]

It's great to hear that a comparison of formats is planned for sometime in the future. could I just mention to the editors that some of us are on a limited budget so the format in previous ultimate guides would be useful (you know - best for budget to best money no object system sort of thing). - thanks

 

[Clare Newsome]

All good feedback (once again)

We have actually already discussed some kind of reader panel idea, too - and you'll also notice we're running a Readers' Award for the first time. Its modest start on the Forums will be joined by a dedicated voting site currently being built.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, we'll be considering how best to tackle this test in the coming weeks, so please keep the ideas/suggestions coming (without the presumptions of how we do/don't run the magazine!)

 

[John Duncan]

PJPro:why not consider asking the forum/readership for ideas to scope out a review for one article every month/quarter? You could even select some of the readership/forum to form part of the review panel (JD, fr0g, Prof Hat, JoelSim, Drummerman and Solomon spring to mind). I know you have done this before, so I guess this is a request for more of the same.

I'm in. Let's start with dropping off equipment at a local reader for a "real world/real living room" perspective?

 

[the record spot]

And if you're planning anything to do with vinyl...... * stifled cough *

 

[Andrew Everard]

Don't cough so loud - you'll make the stylus jump

 

[the record spot]

Good point. I'll self-moderate that earlier post....

 

[Clare Newsome]

Lovely turntables Group Test (£1500-£2000) AND a star turntable in Temptations in the next issue, out August 21st....

 

[John Duncan]

Which, as previously mentioned, could do with a "real world/real living room" perspective. But you'd best be quick, am on holiday from Friday.........

 

[Andrew Everard]

Test long ago gone to press, AFAIK