Got my first pair of speakers (Mission 751) and I have some questions

[hybridauth_Facebook_10206284129813678]

I already posted this, but it was in the wrong part of the forum so I got no replies.

Okay, these are not my first speakers, but the first speakers I've owned that are not $20 computer speakers. I found an old pair of Mission 751 in my grandparents' living room that hasn't been used for at least 10 years, and I took them for myself. The only spare amplifier I found for it in my house is a Sony STR-DG820, which is a 7.1 home theater reciever. I use it with my PC for music, games, and videos. I use HDMI so it is using the DAC in the reciever instead of my computer's onboard audio.

Being my first pair of real speakers after a series of $20 speakers, I am obviously very happy with the sound. However, there are some areas where I feel that they lack a little bit, even though other people with these speakers on this forum seem to be getting better results. I was wondering if it is worth investing in a dedicated stereo amplifier and maybe a DAC. Will these make a noticable difference? Is my current amplifier preventing my speakers from reaching their potential?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[philpot1001]

also im assuming your grandparents know you have taken the speakers and arent calling the police at the moment ROFL ;o)

 

[philpot1001]

I used to own a pair of Mission 760 iSE's as my first speakers. They were little crackers, and im guessing similar to the 751's (?) but ive never heard the 751's in fairness. However -certainly my 760's were budget speakers, and only cost something like £160 (from what i recall?), so they were never going to drop your jaw in terms of absolute performance, just a lot better than the competition, so it depends on your expectations i guess.

That said, they should be a million times better than some £20 computer speakers! What source are you using? Personally i only use CD's - i used spotify and personally found the sound quality to be dire....although the premium may be better. Do you have a CD player to test as a benchmark?

 

[philpot1001]

Lastly, positioning for these little bookshelves is critical - do you have them on stands or just lobbed onto the desk? You really need to set them up on stands and have them spaced arpart correctly to get the focus correct.

 

[DocG]

That's funny. I used the 760i SEs for a long time (nearly 20 years!) too, most of that period with a budget Yamaha stereo receiver. Then for a while I drove them with a Devialet 110. Now Devialet + 760s is not what I would call a balanced system (by any stretch), but the jump in sound quality was remarkable. (When I got my KEF LS50s, I gave both the Missions and the Yammy to my sister, who still enjoys the combo.)

If the 750 is anything like the 760, it's a cracking speaker, especially when properly driven. Now, I just googled your amp, and it looks pretty decent too. As you have 7 channels of amplification, and the 750 is biwirable, that would be my first suggestion: use 4 amp channels to bi-amp the speakers, for better control of the mid/bass. It's free (except for a couple of meters of speaker wire)!

It won't hurt to try the amp's digital signal processor, but for starters, use the 'analog direct' mode (to bypass all the processing). Also, be sure the speaker size is set to 'large'. I know the 750s are not large, but here it just means you send the whole signal to the speakers (and you don't use a subwoofer).

And indeed, speaker position is important too. How close to the back wall are they? And to the side walls? Are they at the right height (that is woofer at ear height for these!). Are they firmly on a stable surface? Indeed, stands are better than a desk or cupboard, but in the latter case: can you lay something soft on the surface in front of the speakers (cloth, ...) to avoid early reflections?

Keep us posted on the progress! *drinks*

 

[philpot1001]

yeah loved my little 760's was so pleased with them back in the day, they were very attractive little things.

they just lacked a little bass for my tastes, so ended up changing them for my 733i's 4 years later in 1997, and im still running them now after almost 20 years!

All hail mission lolz ;-)

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10206284129813678]

My source, at least for music, is FLAC files. However, they go through the DAC in my Sony receivcer, so I don't know how much quality I lose there. My parents have a Naim Audio CD player but it recently stopped working so I can't benchmark with CD's.

By the way, my grandparents do know that I took the speakers. I've actually had the speakers since January, but didn't bother to start playing with them until recently.

One thing I didn't seem to mention is that I don't use these on my desk. My computer is hooked up to a TV as well as my monitor. When I use my monitor and sit in my desk, I use my headphones. If I'm doing something on the TV from my couch, or just playing music for homework, I use my speakers, which are on the ground next to my TV. Here's a picture of how my setup is laid out: http://imgur.com/GRjk0Ct

I've actually ordered speaker stands a couple of days ago, and they should be here soon. I will make sure to update you when the stands get here.

 

[philpot1001]

i think thats your problem right there with the speakers on the floor, let us know how you get on when you get the stands, it should help no end.

 

[DocG]

i think thats your problem right there with the speakers on the floor, let us know how you get on when you get the stands, it should help no end.

+1.

That's about the worst place for speakers (on the ground, jammed into the corners would be even worse...). Me too, I believe stands will prove to be an excellent investment.

As for the FLAC-files, converted by the AVR's DAC: don't worry, that's fine. The effect of a dedicated 'audiophile' DAC will be far more subtle than the speakers' position.

 

[chebby]

Excellent reply that would be worthy of someone who writes about hi-fi for a living.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

You're getting stands so this may be a late suggestion.

Turn the speakers 'upside down' and place them on Jenga blocks or anything stable like shot glasses secured with blu-tac, one in each corner that'll take them of the floor.

Tilt them up too, for now and do try a CDplayer. Connect it to the digital coax of your Sony.

Also a fan of Mission speakers....my first budget set were the 731's.

 

[spiny norman]

The 751s were rather superior to the 760s, etc, already mentioned: they were the baby brothers of the likes of the 753 floorstanders, and aimed altogether further upmarket. They had better drivers, internal components and construction than the 760s/780s, and used a novel design in which the front baffle, top and bottom panels and rear were all one single piece of material, folded round to form an open box to which the side panels were attached.

They had something of a reputation as 'giant killers' and were acclaimed by many reviewers (including those on this magazine, if memory serves), not to mention being run on the end of some very superior amplification at the time. If they're in good nick, they should still sound excellent, and while they'd get even better with better amplification, they should be more than capable of being driven by your Sony receiver.

Their balance was always rather more on the refined side, while the less expensive Mission speakers were (in my opinion at least) more tuned for instant appeal when used with just about any amplifier, but could sound a bit raucous at times.

Agreed with the other suggestions about using stands, or at least getting the speakers up to a suitable listening height: unlike most designs which require you to get the tweeters (the treble drivers) up to ear level, the 'upside down' 751s will sound fine as long as you get them up so the top of the cabinet is at the same height as your ears when you are listening.

Where you have them now you'll be getting virtually no treble and bags of bass reinforcement/confusion from that wooden floor.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10206284129813678]

Stands are supposed to be here on Saturday according to UPS tracking. I will update you guys then.

 

[spiny norman]

Excellent reply that would be worthy of someone who writes about hi-fi for a living

Was only trying to help, no need to be insulting!

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10206284129813678]

Three days late, the stands finally got here today. I wasn't sure where to place them, but you can see where I put them in this picture: http://imgur.com/Vv1XDEV.

In terms of sound, the biggest difference is that the vocals and little details are now much clearer. I haven't had time to listen to them too much, but there is a noticeable difference and I am pretty satisfied. I am a little disappointed though by the build quality of the stands. It doesn't affect the sound quality, but they are made of MDF, and it has a cheap, flimsy feel to it. I guess you really get what you pay for at $40.

 

[philpot1001]

MDF? Thats not a great stand TBH, its likely to be flexible to some degree which will probably mean a loss of some bass. When i had standmounts i had them on hollow metal Atamcama's, which were then sand filled.....you could probably pick up a 2nd hand pair of Atacama's for $40 (i think my brand new were £100 back in the day).

Anyhoo, glad you have noticed some improvment.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10206284129813678]

Now that I listened to them more, I agree with you that there is definitely less bass. I don't know if it's just because of the stands though. I'm guessing that being on the wooden floor probably made it easier to feel the bass because it hits the floor directly. Also, I got to try my speakers with my parents' Naim Audio amplifier (which is a much better amp than mine) and they had much better bass.

Should I return these stands. They are Sanus BF24. They were recommended to me by someone on Reddit's audiophile subreddit, who based on his posts, knows what he is talking about. The return shipping will likely cost me at least $20. I'm not sure if that's worth it considering the stands were $38.

 

[MajorFubar]

There might be less bass but is it better bass. Small bookshelf speakers are always going to sound shite placed directly on the floor. For a start unless you routinely listen laid flat on your chest the tweeters aren't going to be ear-level. Then there's the boom you get as a result from physical interaction with the floor, which appears to be what you're looking, for but it's exactly what decent stands try to prevent. If it's the boom boom that you crave you've probably bought the wrong speakers and you'd be better off with one of the many consumer-grade hifi systems from your regular electrical/white goods store.

 

[spiny norman]

Should I return these stands. They are Sanus BF24. They were recommended to me by someone on Reddit's audiophile subreddit, who based on his posts, knows what he is talking about. The return shipping will likely cost me at least $20. I'm not sure if that's worth it considering the stands were $38.

Let's see: MDF construction and plastic spikes? I'd return them or perhaps even offer them for sale on a local site or wherever for $25-30 (less of a loss than returning them) and put that one down to experience.

It's worth putting the Missions on heavy and inert stands to bring out the best in them: if you want to stick with Sanus, the SF26 would be a much better better, along with some sand to mass-load the columns, but I am sure there are other 24in stands of this kind available in your local market. I'd go for all-metal construction and metal spikes/cups for floor use, and preferably either upward pointing spikes or Blu-Tac between the top-plate and the speakers.

 

[philpot1001]

Should I return these stands. They are Sanus BF24. They were recommended to me by someone on Reddit's audiophile subreddit, who based on his posts, knows what he is talking about. The return shipping will likely cost me at least $20. I'm not sure if that's worth it considering the stands were $38.

Let's see: MDF construction and plastic spikes? I'd return them or perhaps even offer them for sale on a local site or wherever for $25-30 (less of a loss than returning them) and put that one down to experience.

It's worth putting the Missions on heavy and inert stands to bring out the best in them: if you want to stick with Sanus, the SF26 would be a much better better, along with some sand to mass-load the columns, but I am sure there are other 24in stands of this kind available in your local market. I'd go for all-metal construction and metal spikes/cups for floor use, and preferably either upward pointing spikes or Blu-Tac between the top-plate and the speakers.

+1

I had a quick look on fleebay and you can get my old Atacama SE24's for about £30, they are pretty ruddy heavy and did a really good job with my 760 iSE's. Plenty of other options if you didnt like them, but def get metal ones, and ideally ones that can be sand filled.

 

[spiny norman]

I had a quick look on fleebay and you can get my old Atacama SE24's  for about £30...

I get the impression that the OP may be one of our colonial cousins, so the shipping costs may be prohibitive.

That said, there appear to be some Atacamas on the US site from forum regular Frank Harvey Hi-Fi, with shipping costs of £23 to the States, unless I'm reading it incorrectly.

 

[MajorFubar]

Should I return these stands. They are Sanus BF24. They were recommended to me by someone on Reddit's audiophile subreddit, who based on his posts, knows what he is talking about. The return shipping will likely cost me at least $20. I'm not sure if that's worth it considering the stands were $38.

Let's see: MDF construction and plastic spikes? I'd return them or perhaps even offer them for sale on a local site or wherever for $25-30 (less of a loss than returning them) and put that one down to experience.

God I didn't check to see what they were made from. No wonder he thinks the sound is bad.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10206284129813678]

Trust me, I don't like a lot of bass and I do enjoy and appreciate the other elements of a speaker. It's just that with these stands, the bass is so low to the point where it even bothers me. Everyone who's listened to my speakers with the new stands so far said the same thing, that there's not enough bass. It makes sense as everyone here is saying that MDF stands are bad and reduce the bass.

 

[philpot1001]

I would just make sure you play about with positioning as well, the mission bookshelves are pretty focussed on a sweetspot from memory, so if youre sat out of the sweetspot you will be missing on a lot of the bass. As a starter for ten, put the speakers about 2.5m apart, and sit about 2.5m from them......then move around (but further back, bit further forward etc) and you should be able to tell the difference......just find the best position using that. But yeah, flimsy stands wont help one jot.

 

[his dudeness]

good advice,also try moving the speakers in relation to the wall behind them,closer they are will produce more bass,try and find the sweet spot.