Going active ... ?

[drummerman]

I recently made a few purchases to add to my collection, including another amplifier and have subsequently found myself bidding on cyrus components, including cd players and PSX-Rs. I am also conemplating some new speakers.

Not quite sure why as I was/am perfectly happy with my current set-up. It also adds to the box count and cost.

So I am contemplating changing to ADM 9RS's. Not because I think they will necesseraly be much better than what I have (I dont know and only had the first generation 9's at my place a couple of times) but when I count cost up of the additional cyrus components (plus speakers) it will exceed the cost of the AVI's. May I add that I perfectly like the cyrus sound, I had a system from the manufacturer before.

It seems like a neat solution (AVI) and will take some of the incentive to change for the sake of it away.

It will be a couple of months before I can afford a pair but I am inclined to go that way at the moment. The only thing I will have to purchase until then is a decent phono stage as I'm not willing to give up vinyl.

Thoughts welcome.

regards

 

[steve_1979]

I predict 100+ posts in this thread by Sunday evening...

 

[steve_1979]

...So I am contemplating changing to ADM 9RS's...

Why don't you give Ash a visit and have a listen to the new ADM9 RSS's?

It'd be interesting to hear what you think of them as I've only heard the old ADM9.1T versions myself.

 

[davedotco]

Just make sure you get a pair in a finish that does not clash with whaterver you a wearing and you will be fine.... :cheer:

Try and be as sure as you can that you are done 'fiddling', 'plug and play' is not for everyone.

 

[the record spot]

I predict 100+ posts in this thread by Sunday evening...

Better send Ash some paracetamol on the back of DM's thread and mine too in that case Steve. More free advertising for the men in sheds! :

 

[FennerMachine]

Question:

If the ADM9's are so great and accurate, why so many different versions?

 

[bluedroog]

Same reason our washing powders have been 'new and improved' so many times since the 1950's.

 

[Craig M.]

Question:

If the ADM9's are so great and accurate, why so many different versions?

I remember once reading a review of a Roksan Caspian cdp in WHF, somewhere in the review it stated that the cdp had undergone quite a few revisions over the years but had kept the same name and it seemed that Roksan hadn't advertised the fact, they'd just got on and done it. Same for AVI (maybe) but they do advertise the fact - I know that the everything about them is different in the latest model to the earlier ones, well, maybe not the amps, but different dac/crossover/mid-bass driver/tweeter/even the acoustic foam inside. Anyway, check the new ones out DM, they are quite a bit better than the older versions, imo, more bass, greater clarity, smoother, airier treble, all that stuff.

 

[FennerMachine]

So the newer ADM9's are better than the old ones?

So the bass, clarity and so forth can be improved upon?

 

[davedotco]

Question:

If the ADM9's are so great and accurate, why so many different versions?

Only 4 proper versions in 16 years. ADM9, ADM9.1, ADM9T, ADM9T RS.

The only real confusion is the latest RS models, having the the Scanspeak tweeter available as an option (the RSS) muddied the waters somewhat, upgrades to the RS's original tweeter rendered the the upgrade largely pointless considering the extra cost.

This is from the AVI website.

 

[John Duncan]

So six versions then. And six years (the 9 was introduced in 2007).

 

[spiny norman]

So six versions then. And six years (the 9 was introduced in 2007).

That's nothing – some companies launch a new model, blitz every forum they can find promoting it as the best thing ever, flog it to a bunch of mug punters, then suddenly and unnacountably discontinue it seemingly within months, just to start shouting all over again about their next genius product.

 

[davedotco]

So six versions then. And six years (the 9 was introduced in 2007).

Quite right, no idea where I got 16 years from....... :wall:

I guess this makes Ash a bit of a fiddler then, you can tell him........ :silenced:

 

[davedotco]

So six versions then. And six years (the 9 was introduced in 2007).

That's nothing – some companies launch a new model, blitz every forum they can find promoting it as the best thing ever, flog it to a bunch of mug punters, then suddenly and unnacountably discontinue it seemingly within months, just to start shouting all over again about their next genius product.

Just to add that if it does not sell as well as expected it ends up in Richers at half price so that more 'mug punters' can get a bargain.

A very well established marketing strategy, just ask Wharfedale, Marantz and the rest......

 

[John Duncan]

I guess this makes Ash a bit of a fiddler then, you can tell him........ :silenced:

Companies should always strive for continuous improvement.

If they can do so without talking EDITED, even better.

 

[the record spot]

So six versions then. And six years (the 9 was introduced in 2007).

That's nothing – some companies launch a new model, blitz every forum they can find promoting it as the best thing ever, flog it to a bunch of mug punters, then suddenly and unnacountably discontinue it seemingly within months, just to start shouting all over again about their next genius product.

In fairness to AVI, this is no more or less than many other Audio/Visual companies. Did Sony (or Panasonic, LG, Samsung, etc, etc) really need another lineup of Blu-ray players each year? Does Marantz need to bring out a new integrated amp every 18 months or so? I don't see anything different - beyond the route to market - that AVI do from the competition.

 

[davedotco]

I guess this makes Ash a bit of a fiddler then, you can tell him........ :silenced:

Companies should always strive for continuous improvement.

If they can do so without talking EDITED, even better.

So do you make incremental improvements and keep quiet or make a 'song and dance' about it? I've heard pretty convincing arguments either way.

 

[AEJim]

So do you make incremental improvements and keep quiet or make a 'song and dance' about it? I've heard pretty convincing arguments either way.

This is a really tricky area - we sometimes make incremental improvements to ranges and usually keep them quiet, sometimes it's due to availability of parts (where we swap in something new, always a "better" component where possible to avoid any potential issues) or sometimes we just decide that we can improve something for the next batch as a running update, usually based on dealer/distributor feedback or indeed our own listening tests compared to newer projects.

The problem arises when you inform distributors/dealers as a matter of course and for spare parts, word then gets out and the calls begin... "I've heard you've upgraded your *insert model* speakers, do I have the upgrade in mine? If not I'd like the upgrade, how can I arrange this, do you pick up the speakers from me?" etc etc. After dozens of these calls from now irate customers (that were happy to buy the speakers as they originally were) you then regret ever attempting to improve the product in the first place and wonder why you bother. Should just save the upgrade for an "i"/"SE"/"MkII" of said product.

If you announced the upgrade, bumped the retail price up a small percentage and offered a retro-fit service for a set fee it would probably save the hassle, but then you often make more than one change on longer running ranges so it becomes a bit tedious for everyone when you keep announcing these things and you lose credibility for making an "inferior" product in the first place... :doh:

 

[the record spot]

Excuses, excuses Jim...

 

[John Duncan]

I guess this makes Ash a bit of a fiddler then, you can tell him........ :silenced:

Companies should always strive for continuous improvement.

If they can do so without talking EDITED, even better.

So do you make incremental improvements and keep quiet or make a 'song and dance' about it? I've heard pretty convincing arguments either way.

It depends whether any particular company's marketing approach involves claims that new models have more bass when the old ones already had plenty (and music doesn't contain bass anyway), that particular components all sound the same (until they find one that doesn't), that a particular crossover topology booms while theirs doesn't (except their new model which has 'overshoot' to provide more bass - in a good way, of course - and actually it's not crossover which causes this sonic signature but cheap driver technology), that the entire hifi industry has no engineers (except them) and that everybody *else* uses hyperbole and lies to promote their products while they are cut-me-own-throat-honest-as-the-day-is-long-guv.

 

[AEJim]

Excuses, excuses Jim...

 

[drummerman]

I guess this makes Ash a bit of a fiddler then, you can tell him........ :silenced:

Companies should always strive for continuous improvement.

If they can do so without talking EDITED, even better.

So do you make incremental improvements and keep quiet or make a 'song and dance' about it? I've heard pretty convincing arguments either way.

It depends whether any particular company's marketing approach involves claims that new models have more bass when the old ones already had plenty (and music doesn't contain bass anyway), that particular components all sound the same (until they find one that doesn't), that a particular crossover topology booms while theirs doesn't (except their new model which has 'overshoot' to provide more bass - in a good way, of course - and actually it's not crossover which causes this sonic signature but cheap driver technology), that the entire hifi industry has no engineers (except them) and that everybody *else* uses hyperbole and lies to promote their products while they are cut-me-own-throat-honest-as-the-day-is-long-guv.

Fair play JD, I too don't like hyperbole, no matter where it is coming from but that still leaves a product which seems very, very good value for money as I am at the moment try to figure out.

Each of the amplifiers (there are two, well, actually four, two in each speaker) are substantial creations. The boxes look fine and well made, the drivers are good quality and a digital hub of sorts/pre-amplifier and remote is included for the £1.3k price.

I never questioned the value of the 9's (but often spoke out against the way of marketing the company uses even though I very much liked the co-owner when I met him. He really comes over completely different than just purely 'on paper'.)

Never mind. I make a decision soon. My 8vs2 (cyrus) with the planned PSX-R and matching player and a pair of larger standmounts than my Ushers, I was thinking Quad12L2 or perhaps 21L2 would take the overall system cost past a pair of ADM9RS's with 'future' upgrades such as an additional PSX-R potentially adding.

I've always maintained that the sweet spot at the time was the 8vs2 plus PSX-r. After that it just got to expensive and there are better integrated amplifiers availabe. My cyrus is not the latest generation so that may have changed but as I can't afford the latest 8 version, or a pre-power etc that's what I got.

I'm also hankering after something more simple, more aestethically pleasing if possible though I do like the cyrus build/looks.

In any case I still use my Sony receiver in the main system. Simply superb imo.

We'll see.

regards

 

[John Duncan]

They are indeed very good value for money. I would personally go for a pair of DM5s though, which would be more practical for me, provided they sounded good (for which I would not be prepared to just take the manufacturer's word, obviously).

 

[davedotco]

I guess this makes Ash a bit of a fiddler then, you can tell him........ :silenced:

Companies should always strive for continuous improvement.

If they can do so without talking EDITED, even better.

So do you make incremental improvements and keep quiet or make a 'song and dance' about it? I've heard pretty convincing arguments either way.

It depends whether any particular company's marketing approach involves claims that new models have more bass when the old ones already had plenty (and music doesn't contain bass anyway), that particular components all sound the same (until they find one that doesn't), that a particular crossover topology booms while theirs doesn't (except their new model which has 'overshoot' to provide more bass - in a good way, of course - and actually it's not crossover which causes this sonic signature but cheap driver technology), that the entire hifi industry has no engineers (except them) and that everybody *else* uses hyperbole and lies to promote their products while they are cut-me-own-throat-honest-as-the-day-is-long-guv.

I guess that touched a nerve, eh John.

I find laying down in a darkened room with a bit of Joy Division usually helps..... :rockout:

To be honest I have done a fair amount of work in hi-fi marketing, so knowing the score I do not take any of it at all seriously.

Strictly for entertainment purposes only.......

 

[jonathanRD]

I've been looking at the AVI website today.

I think I've been lucky over the years that my local dealer always seemed to give good advice that meant my budget gear turned out rather good.

I thought I needed floorstanders affer a new extension on the house gave me a 4m wide by 5m long room to play in. But after getting the BKXXLS400 sub woofer and hooking it up with my old Mission 780's, I starting to consider whether to look at £800 - £1000 stand mount speakers instead (supported by the BK sub).

There is nothing wrong with my current gear, so if I am going to spend some cash, I want to move up from budget gear. So to replace my 15+ years speakers and 14 year old amp (each about £350 back in the day) I think I should be spending circa £750 for an amp and slightly more for speakers. Thats potentially about £1500 to £2000.

But, there's lots of views, reviews etc on system matching and countless options, I could be demoeing for months.

Just wondering whether £1250 (for the new ADM9RS) represents another good option (I assume I can connect my BK amp).

I haven't got the cash together yet but I am certainly thinking about it.