FM tuner vs. CD sound quality?

[Kevin Stephens]

How good can FM get? I'm thinking of upgrading my OK but not brilliant tuner to get something to at least match sound quality of my excellent CD player - thinking of a second hand Musical Fidelity A5 tuner. Can anyone report on comparison of SQ between a top quality tuner and CD player?

I have a very good room mounted ariel, absolute faith in future of FM broadcasting (R3!!) and no desire to connect my computer to my hifi

 

[matthewpiano]

Try a Naim NAT 101 second hand. On R3 with a good roof mounted aerial this will certainly challenge the sound of some very good CD players indeed. Look fab too.

 

[CnoEvil]

Try a Naim NAT 101 second hand. On R3 with a good roof mounted aerial this will certainly challenge the sound of some very good CD players indeed. Look fab too.

Great advice; I remember it, and the even better NAT-01 (I think)......should certainly give a lot of fairly expensive CDPs a run for their money. It's a brilliant bit of kit.

 

[Overdose]

I would say that the quality is going to be largely down to the broadcast quality, which varies greatly, particularly with the amount of compression used.

 

[Electro]

I used to have a Naim NAT 02 used with a Ron smith Aerial and it was very good but nowhere near as good as my Cd player with any station or signal , in fact not even remotely close to being as good!

I also had an old Sony ST 770 ES which on balance I think I preferred to the Naim tuner so price is no guarantee of better quality

I bought the NAT 02 second hand at a good price but have now sold it ( at a small profit ) because I found that I hardly ever used it.

Sorry to be negative but this is my opinion and what my ears tell me

 

[fr0g]

I'd buy a streamer like a Squeezebox and listen to the online stream (320 Kb). It's exceedingly good quality. That and many others. The Linn stations are also top-notch.

There are now hundred of stations at high bit-rates.

And you'd have no "need" to connect to your computer.

 

[busb]

I'm sure some people considered that R3 live lunchtime concerts were the pinnacle of sound quality, despite the BW being restricted to 20-15kHz. I thought FM was going to be scrapped - am I wrong? Absolute faith sounds dangerous to me!

 

[chebby]

I'd buy a streamer like a Squeezebox and listen to the online stream (320 Kb). It's exceedingly good quality. That and many others. The Linn stations are also top-notch.

There are now hundred of stations at high bit-rates.

Agreed. (I stream lots of 'live' radio content and iPlayer radio and record some from Freeview radio.)

However, I still love FM and - luckily - I can do the lot, either from TuneIn Radio Pro using AirPlay (from my iPhone), FM, DAB or Freeview (via optical connection to telly).

I am not wholly dependent on my internet connection for radio. (We even have a little wind-up portable radio if the mains fail!)

Really good FM tuners are so cheap you may as well get one for the duration.

 

[busb]

Talking of the Sony ST 770 ES or possibly the previous version (pre remote) - I have one in a cupboard somewhere still. I'd being willing to part with it. My radio listening is now through Freesat on my home stereo or TuneIn Radio on my iPhone.

 

[The_Lhc]

I'd being willing to part with it.

But not here obviously, what with trading still being against the House Rules and everything...

 

[busb]

Hence no price etc being mentioned!

 

[The_Lhc]

Hence no price etc being mentioned!

That doesn't matter, I've seen people modded before now for less than what you said.

 

[CnoEvil]

I used to have a Naim NAT 02 used with a Ron smith Aerial and it was very good but nowhere near as good as my Cd player with any station or signal , in fact not even remotely close to being as good!

I also had an old Sony ST 770 ES which on balance I think I preferred to the Naim tuner so price is no guarantee of better quality

I bought the NAT 02 second hand at a good price but have now sold it ( at a small profit ) because I found that I hardly ever used it.

Sorry to be negative but this is my opinion and what my ears tell me

Your opinion is much more up to date than mine.

I haven't heard a Naim Tuner since the late 80s, where it didn't have such good CDPs to compare with (so maybe my memory is rose tinted).

There is also the fact that I heard the NAT-101 with the SNAPS and the NAT-01 /NAPST is a good step up again (cost £1000 in late 80s).....and still making good money today:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NAIM-NAT-01-NAPST-tuner-Immaculate-Lotus340r-Hifi-/280846702954

 

[manicm]

A good FM tuner and good reception can easily equal CD if not best it.

 

[amcluesent]

R3 live broadcasts sound very good using my Myryad MT 100 or Quad FM-4, of course all commercial stations sound dreadful

 

[Kevin Stephens]

New MF A5 tuner is on it's way to me :bounce:
I will report back answer to my OP in due course.....

 

[Kevin Stephens]

Well my new tuner is breaking in nicely; apparently it had lain dormant in its box since being made and hence is still "new". Radio 3 FM sounds incredible - mid range and detail is better and sweeter than my CD, maybe due in part to thermionic valves in the output stage. . Borrowing the Chord Chorus 2 IC from my CD (in place of the old tuner's Cambridge ICs) further improved this. Bass not quite there yet but a google search indicates that this will come with burn in

Upsampled (192k) DAB is very good on Radio 6 but comparison of R3 FM with DAB proves the point that interpolation can't recover data that isn't in the transmission

I had considered streaming internet radio but this would have been a more expensive and at present I don't believe that this would match FM R3 (which I believe will still be there when I'm gone) broadcast quality. R6 may have been a little better than upsampled DAB but (to me) R6 SQ less important - main benefit of R6 (and R3 too) is to discover new music to buy on CD (or eventually high resolution downloads)

 

[Overdose]

A good FM tuner and good reception can easily equal CD if not best it.

Music broadcasts are largely from CDs , so it is unlikely that after being compressed in a studio and then sent across the airwaves, that it would sound better than CD.

Would it?

 

[fr0g]

A good FM tuner and good reception can easily equal CD if not best it.

Music broadcasts are largely from CDs , so it is unlikely that after being compressed in a studio and then sent across the airwaves, that it would sound better than CD.

Would it?

Not in a million years. Sounds like Chinese whispers regurgated as "truth"

I had a nice FM tuner setup years ago, installed proper antenna etc. It was very good. But taking R3 as a guide, the 320 Kbps internet stream beats it into a cocked hat for quality and consistency.

 

[manicm]

A good FM tuner and good reception can easily equal CD if not best it.

Music broadcasts are largely from CDs , so it is unlikely that after being compressed in a studio and then sent across the airwaves, that it would sound better than CD.

Would it?

Not in a million years. Sounds like Chinese whispers regurgated as "truth"

I had a nice FM tuner setup years ago, installed proper antenna etc. It was very good. But taking R3 as a guide, the 320 Kbps internet stream beats it into a cocked hat for quality and consistency.

And again, what God says is *croak* truth. Firstly Overdose, since when is playback 'compressed' over FM? You do realise that right up to the 90s dj's were still using vinyl? So why wouldn't FM broadcasts, assuming one has stable reception, not sound good?

My Arcam Solo Mini's FM tuner is a cracking tuner, crystal clear.

 

[Overdose]

Do you actually know what compression is, regarding broadcasting?

It would seem that you are lacking a basic understanding and what on earth has the 90's got to do with anything? We're in the 21st century now. Dynamic compression is widely used, Classic FM and even BBC Radio 3 use it, but perhaps not in the evenings for Radio 3. Either way FM radio is very far from any guarantee of quality and if compression is being used, fidelity, if not quality, has already gone out of the window.

The best quality that you can hope for, is direct playback of your own media on your own system.

 

[chebby]

The BBC were sending 13 bit/13 channel PCM digital streams for TV and radio (via leased GPO telephone lines) to their transmitters from 1972 onwards.

So it is very likely that anything you have ever heard on BBC FM (VHF) was distributed to the transmitter in digital.

However, yes, FM (with a good roof aerial) is my favourite despite my frequent use of Freeview radio, internet radio and iPlayer radio via AirPlay (and the TuneIn Radio Pro app).

Yet again, it's not all about the digits or 'analogue vs digital' (a dubious debate in this instance) or anything other than what the listener prefers.

I have (and regularly use) all the options including DAB (DAB on the Vita R1 in the kitchen), FM, Freeview radio, internet radio and iPlayer radio. Freeview is particularly useful for recording radio programmes on the Humax to listen to at a more convenient time.

FM still has the 'magic' that the others don't possess. This is my opinion, based on my daily experience, with my system. I also have lots of BBC Radio material purchased on BBC CDs (and ripped to iPlayer in everything from AIFF Lossless to 256K AAC VBR) so I have had the chance to compare. FM still wins - in terms of my enjoyment of the resultant sound - even if not in convenience.

Note that I am talking subjectively about my own enjoyment of/preference for FM and not measured properties, convenience, or anyone else's enjoyment.

 

[Overdose]

The BBC were sending 13 bit/13 channel PCM digital streams for TV and radio (via leased GPO telephone lines) to their transmitters from 1972 onwards.

So it is very likely that anything you have ever heard on BBC FM (VHF) was distributed to the transmitter in digital.

However, yes, FM (with a good roof aerial) is my favourite despite my frequent use of Freeview radio, internet radio and iPlayer radio via AirPlay (and the TuneIn Radio Pro app).

Yet again, it's not all about the digits or 'analogue vs digital' (a dubious debate in this instance) or anything other than what the listener prefers.

I have (and regularly use) all the options including DAB (DAB on the Vita R1 in the kitchen), FM, Freeview radio, internet radio and iPlayer radio. Freeview is particularly useful for recording radio programmes on the Humax to listen to at a more convenient time.

FM still has the 'magic' that the others don't possess. This is my opinion, based on my daily experience, with my system. I also have lots of BBC Radio material purchased on BBC CDs (and ripped to iPlayer in everything from AIFF Lossless to 256K AAC VBR) so I have had the chance to compare. FM still wins - in terms of my enjoyment of the resultant sound - even if not in convenience.

Note that I am talking subjectively about my own enjoyment of/preference for FM and not measured properties, convenience, or anyone else's enjoyment.

Fair enough, if that is your preference, but my statements were in reply to...

manicm wrote:
"A good FM tuner and good reception can easily equal CD if not best it."

A flawed argument when broadcasting is largely from CD or CD derived playlists in WAV format. So a CD being played, compressed and sent via radio, received by a tuner and replayed on your system of choice is never going to sound better than the same CD played on your system directly, it'll be the same at best.

 

[fr0g]

A good FM tuner and good reception can easily equal CD if not best it.

Music broadcasts are largely from CDs , so it is unlikely that after being compressed in a studio and then sent across the airwaves, that it would sound better than CD.

Would it?

Not in a million years. Sounds like Chinese whispers regurgated as "truth"

I had a nice FM tuner setup years ago, installed proper antenna etc. It was very good. But taking R3 as a guide, the 320 Kbps internet stream beats it into a cocked hat for quality and consistency.

And again, what God says is *croak* truth. Firstly Overdose, since when is playback 'compressed' over FM? You do realise that right up to the 90s dj's were still using vinyl? So why wouldn't FM broadcasts, assuming one has stable reception, not sound good?

My Arcam Solo Mini's FM tuner is a cracking tuner, crystal clear.

Not sure what the invisible sky genie has to do with anything, but you, my strange little fellow need to read what Overdose has said. Unless some magic sound elves are sprinkling mystical zappy dust over the radio waves as they wend there way to your little mini system then there is no way that the FM signal can be objectively *better* than the CD. It *is* possible that you subjectively prefer that format for whatever reason, just like the chebster seems to.

 

[chebby]

You'd better give up now Manic, otherwise you'll have the entire rank & file of [LINK REMOVED - house rules] lining up to 'educate' the living daylights out of you.