floorstanders advise

[iceman16]

You said in a earlier post that Naim can sound smooth. Not sure how you think that: I've heard most of the entry-level/midrange Naim integrateds (5i, 5i, XS), and I've owned the CD5i. They are very attacking in presentation and can sound cloying if partnered with the wrong speakers. To my ears they ain't smooth.

+1 I have owned Naim Cdx2/202/250.2 with PMC twenty.24 and never sound smooth to my ears*scratch_one-s_head*

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

You said in a earlier post that Naim can sound smooth. Not sure how you think that: I've heard most of the entry-level/midrange Naim integrateds (5i, 5i, XS), and I've owned the CD5i. They are very attacking in presentation and can sound cloying if partnered with the wrong speakers. To my ears they ain't smooth.

What I’m getting at is that naim with pmc designs sound tonally warm and rich like turning up the bass knob, if the amp had such tone controls. The dynamics of £5k of naim pre and power amps I heard with my pmcs was lacking compared to £8k worth of cyrus stuff. The way a synth line goes on and off with my amps is very taught and dynamic, and fluid, and as if the synth is being played by a synthesiser itself. Raw, and filled full of texture. Rather in the naim it’s like its being put through its own filter to the extent it’s not so on and off and dynamic and raw. It’s also slower and not as fast with the naim. The speed it gets to the drum beat, chord, or synth etc. To my ears not as real and the bass lines a bit more lazy. Also the detail is just not there comparatively, with naim. Naim is attacking in presentation so far as rhythmic matters and overall musical impression. But as you spend more on naim stuff, all the detail, dynamics and speed of attack is surely there.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Quest 3k difference between the two is quite a bit...so how does 8k naim vs 8k cyrus...a bit more of a equilibrium would be a fairer supposition would it not.....oh and I'm not a naim fanboy...I'd really love to get a hold of one of those avm all in ones..in fact I want to hear all of it.lol.everything.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Yes you are right Mark, but I was just drawing a point that Naim stuff below or around £5k didn’t tickle me for what it did compared to what I’m used too. I haven’t heard comparable priced naim stuff to mine, but I heard naim stuff double the price with my range of speakers in the twenty5 as I say, and lots better as you’d expect. But I still think it would probably be hard to compare my stuff with naim stuff, as I’ve got seperate power amps, a pre amp with very good dual dacs, and a power supply for the pre, and I doubt that’s possible with naim for the price.

But on avm 5.2 around £5k is pretty decent but I still think achievable to get that sound with seperates units. If you want some more detail the avm will give you, id look at possibly changing the 20-21 for 25-21 or other twenty5 range, as it will give a kick for mid range, detail, dynamics, and out and out punch.

 

[plastic penguin]

I've heard these Naims with PMC 'i' series (DB1 and GB1) as well as as the newer Twenty and Monopulse speakers. Yes the synergy is better than with Monitor Audio, older Focal... but still wouldn't class them as "smooth".

My usual dealer is a Naim, Rega, Linn, PMC, Focal specialist so most times he has this combo thrumming away in the demo room. Personally for me, Naim, regardless of speakers, are too edgy.

 

[CnoEvil]

I've heard these Naims with PMC 'i' series (DB1 and GB1) as well as as the newer Twenty and Monopulse speakers. Yes the synergy is better than with Monitor Audio, older Focal... but still wouldn't class them as "smooth".

My usual dealer is a Naim, Rega, Linn, PMC, Focal specialist so most times he has this combo thrumming away in the demo room. Personally for me, Naim, regardless of speakers, are too edgy.

Maybe it's a matter of comparison - if your poison of choice is Cyrus, Naim might seem warm and smooth....especially when paired with PMC (Naim amps aren't known for a high damping factor).

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I've heard these Naims with PMC 'i' series (DB1 and GB1) as well as as the newer Twenty and Monopulse speakers. Yes the synergy is better than with Monitor Audio, older Focal... but still wouldn't class them as "smooth".

My usual dealer is a Naim, Rega, Linn, PMC, Focal specialist so most times he has this combo thrumming away in the demo room. Personally for me, Naim, regardless of speakers, are too edgy.

Maybe it's a matter of comparison - if your poison of choice is Cyrus, Naim might seem warm and smooth....especially when paired with PMC (Naim amps aren't known for a high damping factor).

yes I’d agree absolutely cnoevil But would refer you to my comments Mr Penguin about what I thought smooth was. I could have been a bit clearer possibly but here goes ... tonally rich, dynamics not as good so joining bass notes together being more bass rich, less detail so the bass seems to prevail more (and not much treble too). It’s all relative as being smooth or smoother I guess is the point.

I think pairing a smooth ish amp with smooth speakers like the twenty series is not a good thing for balance to my tastes, unless you like lots of smoothness and richness in which case why not go for it. Music for me is essentially about the dynamics, detail, speed, midrange and decent dynamic bass but not floor shaking bass at home. You do that in a concert. But the things that make music real are essentially the detail and dynamics. You can’t create bass of a concert at home anyway.

 

[plastic penguin]

I totally get tonally rich, but in my experience over the years, Naim is not "rich" in any sense. Amplifers that tonally rich are Arcam, Creek Evo2, Nad, Yamaha...

I agree with Cno, if you are already tuned to a brighter presentation then Naim might, if you plugged your ears, may seem to be smoother or richer.

I know when I had a 5i on home dem years ago (I've mentioned this many times), after about 15 minutes I had to take a painkiller as the Naim gave me a thumping headache.

Naim and Cyrus, as I've described before, are great if you want an amp that has "instant impact". However, as I listen to music most days for around 4 hours at a time, I need something that's less brutal on the senses. (And need to save on Paracetamols) *wink*

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I agree with you and you always make a lot of sense Mr Penguin, as with cnoevil too. I think it is all comparative as you say. And views about amp brands are dependent on what speakers you predominantly hear the amps with too.

I like the brutality on the senses thing but I tend to listen at modest volume levels so I can listen for hours like this, and I like getting every single intonation in sounds. But I think if I did always listen loud my set up wouldn’t be for me, not least of which the diminutive drivers don’t suit loud listening.

 

[plastic penguin]

Had a similar experience with a Cyrus 8VS2 years ago.

Years ago What Hi-fi used to run a thing called "Reader Rescue", where they would go to people's houses if you were unhappy with whatever equipment you had and demo some alternatives. At the time I had a Arcam A65+ and I wanted better quality amplification for the RS6s. So Joe Cox brought round a Roksan Kandy LIII, Naim 5i and Cyrus 8vS2.

I told him to skip the Naim as I had no painkillers to hand - the Cyrus was pretty good in some respects: Detail, bass definition, clarity... but compared to the Roksan, the Cyrus didn't quite hit the 'sweet spot'. By contrast, the Roksan, although, great synergy with the RS6s wasn't a big enough lift over the Arcam to justify paying the premium.

And so the search carried on from another 18 months or so until I dem'd the Leema Pulse. It blew me away with the good synergy and detail, poise and attack, but never once crossed the line of being bright. 7-years later I replaced it with the Tucana.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Ahhhhh.reader rescue...those were the days.lol.

 

[plastic penguin]

Yip. How I hanker back, how we all played hop scotch to the dealers. It was frightfully exciting, Cap. *biggrin*

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I bought the magazine religiously back then and I always looked forward to the group tests and readers rescue.

I always remember lusting after the arcam a85/cyrus cd7 and the b&w cdm1nt that they put together after the arcam won that particular group test....I only ever managed to get the a85.lol.

Ps.I apologise for the thread derailment.