First a 4k fuse now this....

[plastic penguin]

Garrard Model 301 Turntable

The Garrard Model 301 Transcription Motor is recognised as supreme in its class. Features that enthusiasts will appreciate are suppression of switch clicks, the heavy turntable platter accurately balanced and very fine degrees of speed control available for all three speeds 33⅓, 45 and 78 rpm...

www.hificorner.co.uk

But...but...but...

 

[Gray]

But...but...but...

....but:
At least it does something.

(Absolute joke of a price though).

 

[Al ears]

....but:
At least it does something.

(Absolute joke of a price though).

Agree about the price unless the subplatter is gold plated

 

[plastic penguin]

Agree about the price unless the subplatter is gold plated

And been signed by King Charles.

Do these people actually believe that 22k is worth spending on a turntable?

 

[abacus]

At that price you can have one in every room in the house and the outside shed, bargains don't come up very often but that's a steal.

Bill

 

[Al ears]

And been signed by King Charles.

Do these people actually believe that 22k is worth spending on a turntable?

I don't understand where the price reckoning comes into it.
Yes it's a classic turntable but with a cheap plinth and SME tonearm the idea that you 're going to get someone to pay that for it is beyond belief.

 

[podknocker]

£22,560.00 is an absolute joke. It's £22k too expensive and it's worth £560

Then again, it's a record player, so why not buy a £350 Marantz CD player and enter the modern world!

Even better, invest in a streamer and enjoy 80 million tunes, at much better sound quality.

 

[Al ears]

£22,560.00 is an absolute joke. It's £22k too expensive and it's worth £560

Then again, it's a record player, so why not buy a £350 Marantz CD player and enter the modern world!

Even better, invest in a streamer and enjoy 80 million tunes, at much better sound quality.

It may be an unusual price for a turntable but your other comments are completely irrelevant.

 

[Symples]

I could understand the price is it was made anything like this.

I absolutely love the finish of this..

View: https://youtu.be/vKFQ8B4cx64

 

[Nico69]

If you've not heard a top end deck then you can't really comment. I've heard a few from friends over the years and a well sorted deck is a thing of musical beauty. I don't care what the naysayers think.

If money was not object to me then I would buy this in a heartbeat.

LInn Klimax LP12 - Hi-Fi Corner

The Linn Klimax LP12 is the what all hi-fi enthusiasts dream of and with Hi-Fi Corner's turntable specialists, you'll be sure the set up is correct and sounding its best.

www.hificorner.co.uk

More than the measily £22k. from the Garrard above, but then it would have to be the front end of a system costing at least the equivalent, if not more.

However, money is an object I cannot spare so I'm perfectly content with what I have but always willing and eager to hear other systems that can blow me away.

And no, I would not be buying silly expensive fuses to add to the system.

 

[podknocker]

Elaborate and ornate construction will not improve the sound quality of this 70 year old format, in the same way it won't improve the sound quality of CD, which is now a 40 year old format.

Just because it looks nice, doesn't mean it will sound better. LP records cannot reproduce the quality of a studio recording, in the way a modern format can.

I've heard decent record players and they sound nice, but they don't have the ruthlessly revealing nature of CD.

CD and newer formats sound fantastic with good recordings and sound terrible with poor recordings. What do people expect? This is not CDs fault, it's the recording.

LPs will flatter the recording and hide any shortcomings of the recording, hence sounding pleasant, but you aren't getting a true picture of the recording.

I honestly cannot believe people pay a fortune for LPs and record players. This is old technology and does not have the resolution of a CD, or later format.

Turning HIFI into fancy furniture and obsessing about the aesthetics and design, along with the tactility and experience of holding these LPs, has no bearing on the sound produced.

 

[Gray]

If you've not heard a top end deck then you can't really comment.

Whatever people have heard Nico, the comments are obviously valid.

Nothing justifies the price tag on this turntable.

 

[Nico69]

...........
I've heard decent record players and they sound nice, but they don't have the ruthlessly revealing nature of CD.

..........

I honestly cannot believe people pay a fortune for LPs and record players. This is old technology and does not have the resolution of a CD, or later format.

.............

No, no, no, no.no. I beg to differ. Some very high end decks dig out detail from old bits of vinyl that would astound you and give you goosebumps!

As I said in a post some months back, I did back to back blind testing between vinyl, high res FLAC files and CD of three artists and maybe 2 songs from each. My mate and I took it in turns to try and fool each other with the source. I think overall the vinyl on the LP12 killed all others in about 75% of the tests.
Yes, you really need to go to top end sources but to dismiss it as you do is just not correct.

 

[podknocker]

I'm not saying and I've never said, LPs sound dreadful, but they are not a true reflection of the original recording and I'd be happy with a turntable, if CD had never arrived.

The technology behind record players and CD players can no longer be improved. They've both reached their potential. I believe CD came to a technological dead end, around 20 years ago and there's no amount of DAC tweaking, or power supply cleaning, that will suddenly turn CD into a better sounding format.

LPs and even CDs have finite ability to reproduce sound and they both use very old technology. No more quality can be extracted from either format. High resolution files and streaming do get closer to the original studio recording and there is plenty of stuff out there to faithfully reproduce this music.

CD was always going to be a compromise, but vinyl, along with cassette, have fundamentally inferior sound quality, in my opinion, along with the physical and practical shortcomings. I'm not vinyl bashing, to promote CD, I'm bashing all these old, tired, physical formats, which have reached their limits, with regards to sound quality.

Using the highest quality files, from the best quality masters, is the closest thing you can get to the artist laying down that track, in a modern recording studio, using state of the art electronics. To reveal this level of quality, you need state of the art playback devices. Record players, or now even CD players, cannot provide this level of reproduction.

 

[plastic penguin]

I'm not saying and I've never said, LPs sound dreadful, but they are not a true reflection of the original recording and I'd be happy with a turntable, if CD had never arrived.

The technology behind record players and CD players can no longer be improved. They've both reached their potential. I believe CD came to a technological dead end, around 20 years ago and there's no amount of DAC tweaking, or power supply cleaning, that will suddenly turn CD into a better sounding format.

LPs and even CDs have finite ability to reproduce sound and they both use very old technology. No more quality can be extracted from either format. High resolution files and streaming do get closer to the original studio recording and there is plenty of stuff out there to faithfully reproduce this music.

CD was always going to be a compromise, but vinyl, along with cassette, have fundamentally inferior sound quality, in my opinion, along with the physical and practical shortcomings. I'm not vinyl bashing, to promote CD, I'm bashing all these old, tired, physical formats, which have reached their limits, with regards to sound quality.

Using the highest quality files, from the best quality masters, is the closest thing you can get to the artist laying down that track, in a modern recording studio, using state of the art electronics. To reveal this level of quality, you need state of the art playback devices. Record players, or now even CD players, cannot provide this level of reproduction.

Pod, no one is having a 'go' at you. Yes, turntables are older format, but some love valve or tube amps. Valves have been used a lot longer, probably since the turn of the 20th Century.

The format has lasted for a good reason. You're not stupid, work it out for yourself.

 

[plastic penguin]

Burmester produce a CD player for $50,000, others at 33k are they worth it? Even if I was a multimillionaire I wouldn't but any of those, nor would I buy a 22k turntable. It's bonkers.

 

[Gray]

On the specific subject of this thread:
Apart from its 'classic' status, what does this turntable give you, over and above a cheaper, modern alternative?

This is a rim drive.
Wouldn't a decent (and still expensive enough) Technics direct drive have better speed stability?

 

[abacus]

I'm not saying and I've never said, LPs sound dreadful, but they are not a true reflection of the original recording and I'd be happy with a turntable, if CD had never arrived.

The technology behind record players and CD players can no longer be improved. They've both reached their potential. I believe CD came to a technological dead end, around 20 years ago and there's no amount of DAC tweaking, or power supply cleaning, that will suddenly turn CD into a better sounding format.

LPs and even CDs have finite ability to reproduce sound and they both use very old technology. No more quality can be extracted from either format. High resolution files and streaming do get closer to the original studio recording and there is plenty of stuff out there to faithfully reproduce this music.

CD was always going to be a compromise, but vinyl, along with cassette, have fundamentally inferior sound quality, in my opinion, along with the physical and practical shortcomings. I'm not vinyl bashing, to promote CD, I'm bashing all these old, tired, physical formats, which have reached their limits, with regards to sound quality.

Using the highest quality files, from the best quality masters, is the closest thing you can get to the artist laying down that track, in a modern recording studio, using state of the art electronics. To reveal this level of quality, you need state of the art playback devices. Record players, or now even CD players, cannot provide this level of reproduction.

Most of the classic albums before the 80s where done on analogue reel to reel machines, not digital.
In the 90s the loudness war irrupted and most albums are re-mastered to this level, which means that in most cases they aren't a patch on the old vinyl's when it comes to how the recording actually sounded.
Just because the latest technology allows brilliant performance, doesn't mean that the content takes advantage of it.

Bill

 

[WayneKerr]

And hi-res isn't the be all and end all either. A decent recording will sound just as good on any format... except maybe cassette.

 

[Gray]

In the 90s the loudness war irrupted and most albums are re-mastered to this level, which means that in most cases they aren't a patch on the old vinyl's when it comes to how the recording actually sounded.

The biggest backward step ever as far as us quality seekers are concerned.
And all in the interest of making everything sound loud.....for those that don't care about quality 🤨

 

[nopiano]

On the specific subject of this thread:
Apart from its 'classic' status, what does this turntable give you, over and above a cheaper, modern alternative?

This is a rim drive.
Wouldn't a decent (and still expensive enough) Technics direct drive have better speed stability?

Isn’t this a bit like someone choosing a vintage wind-up watch instead of a Casio?

The former evokes a certain style and pride of ownership; the latter tells the time more accurately.

 

[Oxfordian]

Elaborate and ornate construction will not improve the sound quality of this 70 year old format, in the same way it won't improve the sound quality of CD, which is now a 40 year old format.

Just because it looks nice, doesn't mean it will sound better. LP records cannot reproduce the quality of a studio recording, in the way a modern format can.

I've heard decent record players and they sound nice, but they don't have the ruthlessly revealing nature of CD.

CD and newer formats sound fantastic with good recordings and sound terrible with poor recordings. What do people expect? This is not CDs fault, it's the recording.

LPs will flatter the recording and hide any shortcomings of the recording, hence sounding pleasant, but you aren't getting a true picture of the recording.

I honestly cannot believe people pay a fortune for LPs and record players. This is old technology and does not have the resolution of a CD, or later format.

Turning HIFI into fancy furniture and obsessing about the aesthetics and design, along with the tactility and experience of holding these LPs, has no bearing on the sound produced.

Streaming is without doubt the future, but it is a soulless medium as far as I am concerned, nothing will beat the experience that I have had since the mid 70's of buying and playing vinyl, I have tried streaming but just cannot get the same involvement that I do from playing vinyl, the whole vinyl process just sucks me in and holds me captive, it is my happy place when I play vinyl.

I do play CD's, stream music and listen to the radio but these mediums are more background noise whereas Vinyl is for listening.

Ultimately streaming will prevail on all fronts but for now and for as long as my turntable turns I will covert vinyl and the joy that it brings me.

But at the end of the day it doesn't matter what source you choose for your music as long as you get pleasure listening to it.

 

[Al ears]

Streaming is without doubt the future, but it is a soulless medium as far as I am concerned, nothing will beat the experience that I have had since the mid 70's of buying and playing vinyl, I have tried streaming but just cannot get the same involvement that I do from playing vinyl, the whole vinyl process just sucks me in and holds me captive, it is my happy place when I play vinyl.

I do play CD's, stream music and listen to the radio but these mediums are more background noise whereas Vinyl is for listening.

Ultimately streaming will prevail on all fronts but for now and for as long as my turntable turns I will covert vinyl and the joy that it brings me.

But at the end of the day it doesn't matter what source you choose for your music as long as you get pleasure listening to it.

Whilst I would agree with the points you have made the thread is not about formats, it is about the price asked for a certain turntable.
Note the subforum it was placed in....
Time to get the thread back on track.

 

[Oxfordian]

Whilst I would agree with the points you have made the thread is not about formats, it is about the price asked for a certain turntable.
Note the subforum it was placed in....
Time to get the thread back on track.

My bad, I was picking up on the content of a previous post rather than the content of the thread, I will go and stand in the corner and face the wall

 

[Nico69]

Whilst I would agree with the points you have made the thread is not about formats, it is about the price asked for a certain turntable.
Note the subforum it was placed in....
Time to get the thread back on track.

Absolutely.. I agree wholeheartedly that this particular example is very overpriced considering there are similarly priced but far better sonically performing turntables out there. I suspect that the target audience would be a man of a certain age, who in retirement is reminiscing about his youth and maybe trying to recapture some memories of a love long gone but never forgotten that maybe played together some 78's or LPs when courting etc. You cannot deny by looking at the video of the production that the class is on a par with Rolls Royce in this field. The craftsmanship and attention to detail is second to none. For some people it is just a very nice thing to have. If it gives them pleasure from looking at is as well as listening to it and that they can obviously afford it, then why not? For me, no. As I've stated I'd go for a Linn any day of the week.

Some interesting links if anyone cares:

Garrard 301. The Classic Transcription Turntable

Garrard 301. The Classic Transcription Turntable

www.gramophonemuseum.com

Garrard Project 2015

Garrard Project 2015

positive-feedback.com