You asked the right question....there is no right or wrong on what you want to do to make your your system sounds right to your ears...WishTree said:How come it is ok to change the amplifier to match speakers or vice versa but it is not so ok to change the cables to achieve the desired sound?
Thanks Steve. I am definetly on the opposite side of the spectrum. I do believe that cables make changes but it is small and they do not change the entire tone of the system. Infact anything that you add, will add distortion. The only point how perceivable is this distortion. As I was saying before, in the entire frequency spectrum, I like the performance upto 5kHz and only the above bothers me minorly then why not have it tuned down by cables? Though it might not be the purist way. But then when the pursit kicks in, then the mods of the OEM equipments come into play as all the prodcuts can be improved by changing the capacitors or rewiring as the original manufacture might have cut corners and the mods try to improvise on that. Yes, ideally a cable should induce no distortion and so a system should faithfully reproduce what is there in the recording - which is not my cup of tea as I need a dash of milk and a bit fo sugar Horses for courses!steve_1979 said:I've done several ABX tests with analogue cables before now and this is what I've found.
The good ones that don't add any distortion don't make any difference to the sound because they can't make the original signal better than it already is. The bad ones that do add distortion can make it worse though. I suspect this is what often gets mistaken as an 'improvement' with overpriced audiophile cables.
From a pure price perspective, there is quite an imbalance on your system. The amp is way more expensive and I would guess "better" than the DAC or speakers. I have found that changing the speakers has the biggest impact per pound so before you drop £750 on cables I would see what effect that amount can have on improving your speakers.lindsayt said:So, let me get this straight: your thinking of connecting your £600 Audiolab DAC to your £3950 Classe amp and your £800 Tannoy speakers with £750 worth of cables?
I have trialed a number of RCA interconnects from my existing Chord Crimson, including Cobra, Chameleon, Nordost Red Dawn, Van Den Hul First Ultimate and Mark Grant G1500HD and the MG suited my system best, although the VDH was a better overall cable. The more expensive cables definately opened up a bigger soundstage. I find the MG to be fairly neutral sounding and with good bass. Might be worth a punt as a low cost option with 30 day trial or money back.WishTree said:The new cables have definetly taken care of the harshness from the system. It is like an improvement from 91% to 92.5%. I feel like I want to agree with the dealer that cable matching is important as well though I think spending so much money just on few lengths of cables is a little too much.shooter69 said:What have these new cables you have borrowed done for your system? Have they curred the problem you had with the Chords or does it still persist? Maybe the Chords are faulty, it can happen and maybe something cheaper will do the trick.
Even though your amp is in a different league to the rest of your gear, tonal balance is more inportant than a financial one but it will expose a week link if you have one.
Where are you Wishtree, how about a second opinion? I dont mind travelling a bit and i have some cable here which im not using and would be happy to come along with it to try out? If your to far away may be someone else can lend an ear.
Thank you for the offer and I would be more than happy to invite you! I live in Germany (NRW) and I am not too sure it is still doable or not.
Good as they are, I would not steer you towards the Q Series....I'm not totally convinced by the ABRs.WishTree said::rofl: I knew it! When you put it that way "have the same qualities you like with the Tannoys, but do it better (ie without the tendency for brightness when pushed)" I am more intrigued !!
Do you think KEF Q series have the same nature? Q700 got a very bad review on WHF but Q900 seems to be quite alright. I generaly prefer the front ports (like Tannoy or Kef Q Series / Reference series as well B&W 803 / 804 series) or sideports of Proac D18/D28.
IMO, rear ports need too much tuning with positioning for which I am too lazy
Thank You! I have some Power cables changed from the stock ones which costed my around 25 Pounds each. I did not notice any change but I let them be in the system as a sureity!stephennic said:hi,
I too tried some very expensive interconnects (MIT) off a friend (I use chord chamelon silver plus too). They improved my system a bit (5 - 10%) but they were as expensive as my cd player, for many 100s dollars it wasn't worthwhile. I then tried a cheap powerchord (Supra Lorad 2.5) and they improved my system nearly as much.
That is a wonderful piece of information. I can spare 9 inches but I am not upto having a 1 meter away from the back walls. Also if the new R series is that better and they look quite stunning in real world, I guess an audition is on the way !CnoEvil said:Good as they are, I would not steer you towards the Q Series....I'm not totally convinced by the ABRs.
The R Series on the other hand struck me as something special and are probably the sweet spot of the range. I don't think they are particularly hard to place, needing only a minimum of 9" behind them.
I would love to try this route. I was looking at Beyerdynamics EQ but have not heard it by myself. Any suggestions on EQ or Tone Controls?Overdose said:
Thank you. I will check it up with other cables that I have and try to do more experementation in the realistic price range!El Hefe said:You asked the right question....there is no right or wrong on what you want to do to make your your system sounds right to your ears...WishTree said:How come it is ok to change the amplifier to match speakers or vice versa but it is not so ok to change the cables to achieve the desired sound?
And also talking about different league between components...my amp and speakers are are not the same league as the source....but I still found balanced between them...
And for cabling, no one actually adviced me to change from one to the other...but I did my own experiment between brands... and I did found that high price dose not guarantee it matches your system.
It seems to be the experienced people concurrence that my Speakers need a change to get the best from my system. I will explore this route. Thank you!Dr Lodge said:I have found that changing the speakers has the biggest impact per pound so before you drop £750 on cables I would see what effect that amount can have on improving your speakers.
That is great! I guess once we get used to our set up then we become sensitive enough to notice the differences that cables as well as Power supply can bring, which I guess is part of the fun of the hobby!Ambrose said:I have trialed a number of RCA interconnects from my existing Chord Crimson, including Cobra, Chameleon, Nordost Red Dawn, Van Den Hul First Ultimate and Mark Grant G1500HD and the MG suited my system best, although the VDH was a better overall cable. The more expensive cables definately opened up a bigger soundstage. I find the MG to be fairly neutral sounding and with good bass. Might be worth a punt as a low cost option with 30 day trial or money back. I have been able to open up at high volume without fatigue or harshness now which I certainly could not with the Nordost for example. Comes down to experimentation. As I mentioned before, I never used to bother with mains block / power cables but have noticed experimenting with PSU for Squeezebox, mains block and psu cable that what was a good system before has really been improved with much more detail appearing now than ever before. IE lots of incremental upgrades has made a significant overall difference. reduced noise for me perhaps being the biggest difference. Make up your own mind, but if your dealer will loan some then you might find it is enough to reduce hardness at higher volume. Else, I guess you need to look elsewhere.
Good! I'll be surprised if these aren't what your searching for....let us know if you give them a go.WishTree said:That is a wonderful piece of information. I can spare 9 inches but I am not upto having a 1 meter away from the back walls. Also if the new R series is that better and they look quite stunning in real world, I guess an audition is on the way !
I notice that you're using a Mac Mini as a source. iTunes has a built in EQ which would do the job nicely.WishTree said:
That is a brilliant suggestion. I always toe-in the speakers towards the main listening position. I am going to give a go with toe-out / off-axis to the listening position and check it out. Thank you!lindsayt said:Wishtree, do you by any chance have the DC6T's toed in so that the tweeters point straight at your usual listening position? Have you tried adjusting the toe-in to see if that can tame the treble down to a more neutral tonal balance? IE so that you're listening off-axis - which some speakers are designed for.
Also there's a high chance that there will be some cables which are just as good for your system as the £750 ones and which will cost you a total of less than £75. Look for cables that are made from the same metal, eg copper, silver, silver coated copper etc, and have a similar construction - thickness, number of strands, insulating material.
Yeah.. Price and performance in some cases are very detached The slight harshness I hear in the DC6T is no way similar to the metal tweeters shrillness. I just purely hate such tweeter harshness especially in the B&W CM7 and CM9 that I owned + lived for more than few years. The Proac tweeters are much softer than the B&W. I did back to back comparision when I had the Response D TWO with DC6T and the the harshness was at par but there is so much gain on the layering and Soundstage. My wife picked up the DC6T with out a hesitation over the Proac D Two.lindsayt said:Interesting to read your thoughts on your Tannoys compared to other speakers - some of them more expensive. This is an example of price and performance being largely independent of each other in hi-fi.
Just out of interest, did you buy the Classe amplifier at a large discount off the new retail price?
I also have the Chord Crimson Plus, if it makes any difference. The largest difference that I have seen in the past is when I changed s/c from Belkin PureAV to Chord Silverscreen.CnoEvil said:Re Your cables - I think any brightness in your current cables is coming from the Chameleon Silver Plus, which is silver coated. I doubt there is anything wrong with the Silver Screen s/c, which are good all copper cables.....can you try your new i/c with your old s/c to see what happens.
The i/c I often recommend as a VFM bet is the Linn Black i/c off ebay, which can usually be got for £20-£24. The Linn Silver (all copper) is also excellent, but is a lot more expensive, and can be got for £120-£150 if vigilant.
There is usually a constant supply of Linn Blacks, as they come with Linn gear and are then traded on....often new or nearly new.
I fully agree with you but there is definetly an improvement in the first switch. So now I need to know which cables are making the most of the improvement.matthewpiano said:£750 on cables seems ridiculous to me, although this is only my opinion of course!
I'm not a cable sceptic. I do believe cables make a difference and I've tried several different options myself in various different set-ups. However, I'm not convinced price has much to do with it and I tend to think it is possible to find something that works in a system for very reasonable money. I still own Chord Rumour 2 speaker cable and Chord Chameleon Plus interconnect but I'm actually using pretty cheap Audioquest cables - G2 at less than £3 per metre, and Evergreen interconnect at £25 for 1 metre. They sound better than anything else in my system despite being substantially cheaper than the Chords or the other Atlas and QED cables I've got.
£750 worth of cables might have a place in a really exotic system but it seems like a lot of money that could be put towards either better speakers or buying some new music.
FWIW I have always found that Graphic Equalizers degrade the sound, and that toning down the treble somehow didn't quite achieve making a bright recording better..it just took the life out of it, which wasn't an improvement, to be honest.steve_1979 said:I notice that you're using a Mac Mini as a source. iTunes has a built in EQ which would do the job nicely.WishTree said:
The Crimson Plus is not silver coated, so I would expect it to be less detailed, but smoother.....well worth a try. You now have a good standard to hold them against, with the "posh" cable.WishTree said:I also have the Chord Crimson Plus, if it makes any difference. The largest difference that I have seen in the past is when I changed s/c from Belkin PureAV to Chord Silverscreen.
I will experiment one at a time changes.