Exotic Interconnects

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WishTree

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May 18, 2010
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CnoEvil said:
FWIW I have always found that Graphic Equalizers degrade the sound, and that toning down the treble somehow didn't quite achieve making a bright recording better..it just took the life out of it, which wasn't an improvement, to be honest.

IMO. If you get the right balance, one isn't needed. As I said previously, the R700 manages to pull off the neat trick of being incredibly detailed and insightful, while still remaining musical. I think having owned the Inpol, you are sensitive to brightness.
Thanks Cno. I just tried with EQ on iTunes and yes it felt lifeless as I am only intending a very minute change and the EQ is cutting down so much :(

R700 is what interests me in the entire R series and they have a beautiful Rosewood color :cheer:

Though I will be auditioning the speakers, Do you think the R700 is smooth and warm but not bright? (as I was reading on a forum that R700 tweeter makes metallic treble and not as balanced as R300, which I doubt but it looks like this person did a home demo of R300, R500 and R700)
 

CnoEvil

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Aug 21, 2009
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WishTree said:
Thanks Cno. I just tried with EQ on iTunes and yes it felt lifeless as I am only intending a very minute change and the EQ is cutting down so much :(

R700 is what interests me in the entire R series and they have a beautiful Rosewood color :cheer:

Though I will be auditioning the speakers, Do you think the R700 is smooth and warm but not bright? (as I was reading on a forum that R700 tweeter makes metallic treble and not as balanced as R300, which I doubt but it looks like this person did a home demo of R300, R500 and R700)
The R700 was the one I heard. I was at my Linn dealer on another matter, when I heard a very pleasant sound coming from one of the demo rooms. Being an inquisitive soul, I went in for a nosey. It was piano black R700s on the end of Linn Majik DSM.

The first thing that struck me was the bass sounded as if it was coming from a larger speaker. The mid-range was very clear and accurate with the treble being crystal clear and soaring.....neither dark nor bright. I didn't stay that long, and Linn isn't my favorite amplification, but the sound struck me as being clean and natural.

I got the feeling that the treble might be a little more forgiving than the Reference range. I think the match with Classe should be clear and musical....that looks deep into a recording.
 

Frank Harvey

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Jun 27, 2008
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I haven't read any of the posts after the first one, but if it hasn't been covered, I think if it was my system, I'd rather put the £750 towards a better pair of speakers, which will bring about a greater difference than any cables of that price will. Don't get me wrong, cables will be worth looking at, but not at this stage.
 

WishTree

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May 18, 2010
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FrankHarveyHiFi said:
I haven't read any of the posts after the first one, but if it hasn't been covered, I think if it was my system, I'd rather put the £750 towards a better pair of speakers, which will bring about a greater difference than any cables of that price will. Don't get me wrong, cables will be worth looking at, but not at this stage.
Thanks David.. It is the consensus of the other members as well that I put my money on speakers.

By any chance have you heard the KEF R700 as this might be a choice and if so please let me know if the R700s are smoother on the top end compared to the DC6T
 

WishTree

Well-known member
May 18, 2010
107
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18,595
CnoEvil said:
The R700 was the one I heard. I was at my Linn dealer on another matter, when I heard a very pleasant sound coming from one of the demo rooms. Being an inquisitive soul, I went in for a nosey. It was piano black R700s on the end of Linn Majik DSM.

The first thing that struck me was the bass sounded as if it was coming from a larger speaker. The mid-range was very clear and accurate with the treble being crystal clear and soaring.....neither dark nor bright. I didn't stay that long, and Linn isn't my favorite amplification, but the sound struck me as being clean and natural.

I got the feeling that the treble might be a little more forgiving than the Reference range. I think the match with Classe should be clear and musical....that looks deep into a recording.
Then it sounds like we have a sutiable candidate for auditioning.. I hope the R700s are not too fussy on placement in the room.
 

Overdose

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2008
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WishTree said:
Overdose said:
How about investing in an equaliser or some tone controls?

Endless tweaking potential!
I would love to try this route. I was looking at Beyerdynamics EQ but have not heard it by myself. Any suggestions on EQ or Tone Controls?
No specific recommendations, but with the quality of equipment that you have, I suspect the only thing really wrong is the tonality, which is better dealt with using an EQ, as this is what it is designed to do, unlike a cable, which is not.
 

WishTree

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May 18, 2010
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WishTree said:
lindsayt said:
Wishtree, do you by any chance have the DC6T's toed in so that the tweeters point straight at your usual listening position? Have you tried adjusting the toe-in to see if that can tame the treble down to a more neutral tonal balance? IE so that you're listening off-axis - which some speakers are designed for.
That is a brilliant suggestion. I always toe-in the speakers towards the main listening position. I am going to give a go with toe-out / off-axis to the listening position and check it out. Thank you!
Just tried toeing out the speakers and the effect is simply amazing! The Soundstage is now so wide and the speakers have become so completely transparent! I have to open my eyes, to see where exactly the speakers but again if I close my eyes I can not point where the speakers are any more :) This old habit of toe-in speakers became such a habit that I never experimented the other possibilities. Though the tonality has not changed tremondously (which is obvious) but the music is definetly enjoyable at slightly louder volumes as well (with a bit reduction in the harshness). Thanks again!

BTW.. I have a pair of XLR cables (QED Qunex 2).. So by switching the borrowed high end RCA cables to QED XLR, there is no difference in SQ. The test is easy to do as there are two outputs on the DAC (RCA as well as XLR) and the amplifier takes both kinds of inputs so it is just pushing a button on the remote!

Tomorrow I will test with Speaker Cables.
 

steve_1979

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Jul 14, 2010
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WishTree said:
I just tried with EQ on iTunes and yes it felt lifeless as I am only intending a very minute change and the EQ is cutting down so much :(
This is surprising. When I tried the iTunes EQ it was adjustable in increments that are so small that if I moved the slider by the smallest possible amount (just one pixel on the screen) it only makes such a slight change to the sound that it's actually inaudible.
 

shooter

New member
May 4, 2008
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WishTree said:
Overdose said:
How about investing in an equaliser or some tone controls?

Endless tweaking potential!
I would love to try this route. I was looking at Beyerdynamics EQ but have not heard it by myself. Any suggestions on EQ or Tone Controls?
Yep, as you have OSX i presume your running iTunes?

I would wholly recomend a digital EQ, have a look at my thread here: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/equalisation-eq

iTunes has a 10 band EQ you can play aroind with for starters, just open iTunes click on window at the top of your screen and you will see Equalizer, open up and hay presto.

If you find that usful but want more control Apple has a 31 band EQ that is bundled with Xcode4, you will also need Soundflower to hijack to audio.

Not purist audio but i found it transformed my listening from good to excellent, adding depth to the bottom which transfornmed the mid and in turn sound overall.

Later when i'm back from work (not sure when that will be) i'll add the Xcode/Soundflower set up to the EQ thread.

P.S Though Germany sounds great, i think its a little a far even for me in the UK! :grin:
 

shooter

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May 4, 2008
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steve_1979 said:
WishTree said:
I just tried with EQ on iTunes and yes it felt lifeless as I am only intending a very minute change and the EQ is cutting down so much :(
This is surprising. When I tried the iTunes EQ it was adjustable in increments that are so small that if I moved the slider by the smallest possible amount (just one pixel on the screen) it only makes such a slight change to the sound that it's actually inaudible.
Same here, though iTunes standard EQ is pretty basic you can adjust the EQ minimally with care. The 31 band is much better (though still a bit tricky), you can get 4 increments per db on average, you can also see the db setting change as you adjust it, very handy.



On the 31 band EQ the incremants are shown in digital 0db bottom right. The control over the frequency range is far greater though but as you have alluded too high frequency control is tricky; this is EQ will find the frequncy that is excitable in your system which in turn you can adjust and leave the rest flat. The best bit, it free.
 

Craig M.

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Mar 20, 2008
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WishTree said:
BTW.. I have a pair of XLR cables (QED Qunex 2).. So by switching the borrowed high end RCA cables to QED XLR, there is no difference in SQ. The test is easy to do as there are two outputs on the DAC (RCA as well as XLR) and the amplifier takes both kinds of inputs so it is just pushing a button on the remote!

Tomorrow I will test with Speaker Cables.
i wonder if it was as easy to compare the rca's directly, whether you would think they sounded the same also? :)
 

WishTree

Well-known member
May 18, 2010
107
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Craig M. said:
i wonder if it was as easy to compare the rca's directly, whether you would think they sounded the same also? :)
Unfortunately not :( Though it has to work based on my meomry of how the song sounded few minutes back on the different RCA as the M-DAC has only one RCA but I am going to give it a try as well.
 

Craig M.

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Mar 20, 2008
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i really recommend trying to get someone to change them for you, so you can try to spot a difference 'blind'. whenever i've tried this, as well as p*ssing my girlfriend off, i've found differences i've heard 'sighted' have disappeared.
 

BenLaw

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Nov 21, 2010
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Craig M. said:
WishTree said:
BTW.. I have a pair of XLR cables (QED Qunex 2).. So by switching the borrowed high end RCA cables to QED XLR, there is no difference in SQ. The test is easy to do as there are two outputs on the DAC (RCA as well as XLR) and the amplifier takes both kinds of inputs so it is just pushing a button on the remote!

Tomorrow I will test with Speaker Cables.
i wonder if it was as easy to compare the rca's directly, whether you would think they sounded the same also? :)
It is now just as easy to compare the cheap RCA v the cheap XLR, why not try that?
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
FrankHarveyHiFi said:
I haven't read any of the posts after the first one, but if it hasn't been covered, I think if it was my system, I'd rather put the £750 towards a better pair of speakers, which will bring about a greater difference than any cables of that price will. Don't get me wrong, cables will be worth looking at, but not at this stage.
Tend to agree - cables generally make a subtle tonal difference. A poor return for that sort of outlay. Personally (and it is very personal) spending that sort of money is only worth it with components, not accessories.
 

stephennic

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Jul 27, 2008
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plastic penguin said:
FrankHarveyHiFi said:
I haven't read any of the posts after the first one, but if it hasn't been covered, I think if it was my system, I'd rather put the £750 towards a better pair of speakers, which will bring about a greater difference than any cables of that price will. Don't get me wrong, cables will be worth looking at, but not at this stage.
Tend to agree - cables generally make a subtle tonal difference. A poor return for that sort of outlay. Personally (and it is very personal) spending that sort of money is only worth it with components, not accessories.
Hi,

I second that - I think the old golden rule was about 10% of your whole system cost on accessories like cables. A new component or speakers makes more difference.

Cheers

Steve.
 

Overdose

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2008
279
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stephennic said:
plastic penguin said:
FrankHarveyHiFi said:
I haven't read any of the posts after the first one, but if it hasn't been covered, I think if it was my system, I'd rather put the £750 towards a better pair of speakers, which will bring about a greater difference than any cables of that price will. Don't get me wrong, cables will be worth looking at, but not at this stage.
Tend to agree - cables generally make a subtle tonal difference. A poor return for that sort of outlay. Personally (and it is very personal) spending that sort of money is only worth it with components, not accessories.
Hi,

I second that - I think the old golden rule was about 10% of your whole system cost on accessories like cables. A new component or speakers makes more difference.

Cheers

Steve.
Does that mean cheaper cables are more appropriate if the same system is second hand, or bought in a 'half-price' sale?

Surely if a £750 cable is what is needed, then it matters not, the cost of the rest of the system?

This is aside from the fact that that any audio cable costing this much, seems obscene (to me).
 

CnoEvil

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Aug 21, 2009
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WishTree said:
I understand that and I generally try to do the same. But since I have the cables on loan, I am pondering..

How come it is ok to change the amplifier to match speakers or vice versa but it is not so ok to change the cables to achieve the desired sound?

Though, I agree that the Loudspeakers as well as Amplifiers have the most pronounced tonal characters in the entire system so it is important to have them matched first to the desired output!
Sorry, I missed this..... Though it's been covered in a round about way, I will give my specific view.

I think in Economics, it is known as "opportunity cost".....ie if you didn't spend it on cables, what else could you have spend it on (that might do more good).

IMO. There is certainly nothing wrong with with looking at cables to achieve your goal, but it only makes sense, if there is no better way to sort the problem for the same money.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
CnoEvil said:
I think in Economics, it is known as "opportunity cost".....ie if you didn't spend it on cables, what else could you have spend it on (that might do more good).

IMO. There is certainly nothing wrong with with looking at cables to achieve your goal, but it only makes sense, if there is no better way to sort the problem for the same money.
Well put Cno and it got me thinking, and then I realised something not so good...

I have spent a fair bit on cables, the RRP of my interconnect is over £2k, but compared to the old RRP price of the cd player and amps its connecting, actually not too bad.

Then I realised...actually the RRP of this interconnect is about the same as that of the speakers - ATC SCM40s :shifty: :doh:

And to your point, if I doubled the amount spent on speakers, I would probably get more improvement than that achieved by the interconnect. So it seems my system isnt possibly as well balanced as I thought :wall:

Even the speaker cable cost me half of what I paid for the speakers :oops:
 

BenLaw

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Nov 21, 2010
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Dr Lodge said:
CnoEvil said:
I think in Economics, it is known as "opportunity cost".....ie if you didn't spend it on cables, what else could you have spend it on (that might do more good).

IMO. There is certainly nothing wrong with with looking at cables to achieve your goal, but it only makes sense, if there is no better way to sort the problem for the same money.
Well put Cno and it got me thinking, and then I realised something not so good...

I have spent a fair bit on cables, the RRP of my interconnect is over £2k, but compared to the old RRP price of the cd player and amps its connecting, actually not too bad.

Then I realised...actually the RRP of this interconnect is about the same as that of the speakers - ATC SCM40s :shifty: :doh:

And to your point, if I doubled the amount spent on speakers, I would probably get more improvement than that achieved by the interconnect. So it seems my system isnt possibly as well balanced as I thought :wall:

Even the speaker cable cost me half of what I paid for the speakers :oops:
Speaker cable + 40s = SCM50As..... ;)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
BenLaw said:
Speaker cable + 40s = SCM50As..... ;)
SCM50SL AT is where I'm heading for sure, and for that I'll be selling the interconnects (cos I'll need longer ones), amps, speakers and speaker cable. Now let me tot that little lot up...

:read: yup at original RRP thats about £10k which would get a new set of SCM50s!!!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Do not spend £750 on a cable ,that is crazy talk, save the money, buy an even better pair of speakers, i would then buy a can of lynx java and spray your current interconnect with it, you save a wedge and the cable is now exotic.
 

BenLaw

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2010
475
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18,895
Dr Lodge said:
BenLaw said:
Speaker cable + 40s = SCM50As..... ;)
SCM50SL AT is where I'm heading for sure, and for that I'll be selling the interconnects (cos I'll need longer ones), amps, speakers and speaker cable. Now let me tot that little lot up...

:read: yup at original RRP thats about £10k which would get a new set of SCM50s!!!
:grin:
 

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