Do you use an eq,tone controls, loudness?

[knaithrover]

All of my current amps have tone controls - I was a teenager in the 1970's and therefore was brought up on bass at 20 past and treble at between 5 and 10 past. I use a Schiit Loki eq if I need a proper tweak or for if I'm using an amp with no tone controls.

 

[chris661]

@chris661 what speakers do you have?

You can read about my system here: https://forums.whathifi.com/threads/chris661s-hifi.110032/

Chris

 

[Jimboo]

Bring graphic equaliserers back did you say? No,no,no. The work of the devil. You see when they record all them wonderful classic albums that we love back in the day when graphic equaliserers were the rage ( even the name graphic equaliser is a bloody misnomer) your beloved sounds were recorded on a massive eight foot long desk with a producer and an engineer as well as the artist present. You buy a two hundred pound box with some sliders on it and you honestly believe you can improve / add to the sound of the album.? Come on , the biggest pile of rubbish hi fi manafactuers ever managed to shift. Completely pointless .

 

[Dom]

I was relieved not to bother with EQ's TBH. You can sort out audio problems with EQ's though. But the V or smile is now history. Phew. I remember an old friend who had his EQ set up in a V, it was the only way to listen to music!

 

[davidf]

Bring graphic equaliserers back did you say? No,no,no. The work of the devil. You see when they record all them wonderful classic albums that we love back in the day when graphic equaliserers were the rage ( even the name graphic equaliser is a bloody misnomer) your beloved sounds were recorded on a massive eight foot long desk with a producer and an engineer as well as the artist present. You buy a two hundred pound box with some sliders on it and you honestly believe you can improve / add to the sound of the album.? Come on , the biggest pile of rubbish hi fi manafactuers ever managed to shift. Completely pointless .

No, you can’t improve on it, but you can produce something that is more pleasing to your own ear. That may be less useful for albums that were produced properly back in the day, but it could be useful for some of the stuff produced nowadays!

 

[Al ears]

Tone controls I haven't used for a long while. What I really need , in my old age, is a Balance control and would not by an amp without one.

 

[chris661]

Bring graphic equaliserers back did you say? No,no,no. The work of the devil. You see when they record all them wonderful classic albums that we love back in the day when graphic equaliserers were the rage ( even the name graphic equaliser is a bloody misnomer) your beloved sounds were recorded on a massive eight foot long desk with a producer and an engineer as well as the artist present. You buy a two hundred pound box with some sliders on it and you honestly believe you can improve / add to the sound of the album.? Come on , the biggest pile of rubbish hi fi manafactuers ever managed to shift. Completely pointless .

The 8-foot-long mixing desk that they're working on will have about 1/3rd of its total area taken up by EQs. I know this because I've worked on a few of them. You've also conveniently forgotten the 6' rack of outboard that the desks will typically connect to. Guess what's in there? Graphic EQs.
Next up, mic selection also factors in. Different mics have different response curves (among other things), so you could consider swapping a microphone out as a form of EQ.
Mic placement can also be considered EQ - look up proximity effect for more info on that.

EQs in HiFi should be used to correct for speaker issues, and occasionally room problems.

Example:

This is the low-frequency response of my main speakers in-room.

You see that really big peak around 40Hz? I use EQ to flatten that, and also the 70-80Hz bump. The bass goes from "boomy" (but impressive, in the short-term) to "even" and "natural" with the EQ in place. FWIW, the speakers are sealed boxes, so the conventional wisdom about ported boxes being boomy can be thrown out immediately.

There's a distinction to be made here.

HiFi (high fidelity) is about getting a sound that's as close to the original as possible. In that case, an EQ is pretty much mandatory. You can take a speaker that's flat from 20Hz-20kHz, but if your room has a strong mode (mine has a few - you can see the peaks in the graph), then the bass is going to be anything but linear. Ideally, room treatment would be deployed to fix the issues, but if the problem can be corrected with EQ for the entire listening area, then it's a convenient way to go.

Now, I'd suggest that the people using tone controls (graphic EQ in a V, etc) are not pursuing high-fidelity. They're looking for enjoyment of the music, and that's okay too. It's important to have that distinction, though.

Chris

 

[davidf]

And in my opinion, you’re using EQ correctly, chris661. So many people try and iron out every single peak and trough, striving for the ultimate flat response. Which is fine if that’s what you’re really after, but in doing so, you’ve removed any character the speaker has, and completely removed the reason/reasons that drew you to liking the speakers in the first place. Remove the major peaks, fill in some of the troughs a little (not completely if they’re -20dB, that’s asking for trouble), and you then have the speaker you like without major colorations.

Speakers are designed to give a flat response in an anechoic chamber, not in-room. To my mind, I can only recall a couple of products that are designed for in-room (and so, don’t measure well in a chamber), which are Ken Kreisel subs and Larsen speakers.

 

[Jimboo]

When anyone starts using a graph to show me how my ears should work I shudder. My point is that for all the graphs and makers glossy catalogue blurb , nothing , nothing makes a bad recording better. It starts and ends at the sound the equipment is given to work with. So many hi fi buffs are so eager to embrace the Hz levels of bass and treble etc as some sort of comfort blanket to warrant the ridiculous amount of cash backed by graphs proving a two hundred pound banana plug or a green ring placed around a c.d do anything other than rob you of your hard earned.
I know some of our members wring their hands over the placement of rugs and use laser guided gadgets to place speakers within hundredths of millimeters of equal placement from the rear walls ( a couple of hundred quid lighter in pocket because they had to try every port bung , finally settling on a combination of lama wool and NASA foam used in astronauts helmets) curtains open or closed? Are they better for the bass if they are lined , decisions, decisions.
I listen to the music not to the system. I don't believe in cable lifters and fuses are just fuses. Nothing makes the manics less screechy , there isn't a system on earth that will make the red hot chilli peppers by the way sound anything other than like a dogs dinner. Balancing this and adjusting that , tweaking, measuring etc. It would need to be done every time you play a record or c.d ?
It was recorded , mixed and presented , there it is. No caveat stating EQ bias may need to be adjusted , subwoofer usage is compulsory. They sometimes say play it loud. Relax , listen to the music. It is what a hi fi is for.

 

[Deleted member 116933]

Unlike most here if i had them and they where/are well implemented id actually use them. They give a little warmth when needed on certain tracks and can help some lifeless flat sounding tracks. As for loudness the best ones are the one actually tied to volume control and adjust on the fly again would use it if i had one. but only if tied in correctly and thats a very rare thing.

But my sugden has nothing just a volume knob

 

[Deleted member 116933]

I have my bass at 0 and a little treble but I do use the loudness on my Marantz PM6006UK. Without it my system sounds flat. Could be my setup , speakers or room. Surely it's all in the ears ?

Actually your right loudness is actually all in the brain, and there are some interesting papers on the " loudness" switch. Dynamic eq also being another form of it. But is a lot smarter as it tied to the volume level.

 

[Surly Sid]

EQs and tone controls have no place in a true 2 channel system.

 

[Dom]

Hi Spanky Wanky, I agree that HiFi does not need tone controls or EQ's, if you think you can achieve better sound quality by adjusting frequency's, be my guest.

 

[Esra]

Any tone control,boost or loudness knob will degrade the signal,fact.In some systems you can hear that in other systems you don´t.While in an AV System with more than two speakers you need a dsp ,which is from a tec. side a very much advanced tone control,you can avoid any touch to the signal in a pure stereo system if system match and room interaction is granted.End of story is you use your system in a way what sounds best to you .

 

[eggontoast]

Do you use an eq,tone controls, loudness?

Of course, all the time. Unfortunately, my setup does not allow for ideal speaker placement etc, so I need to add EQ to achieve the desired sound and overcome the shortcomings of my system/placement. Not sure I agree with the comments about degrading signal quality, what is this the 1970's! There is a lot of material that is of poor sound quality to start with so I'm not sure that 'degrading' the signal is going to make too much difference. Also, some recordings need EQ to get a good tonal balance, maybe it sounded good when it was mixed on the gear they used but on other setups yuck. There are loads of recordings which are tinny, overblown with bass or have rolled off treble etc. those who think every recording is spot on are seriously deluded. So personally, if a little EQ improves my listening experience, I use it.

 

[gasolin]

I have bought a new phone the galaxy s10plus

The akg heaphones sounds better than my old Denon AH-C360 especially the soundstage, so i bough a new pair, my old denons are som years old mabye 7-8 years

Many frequency response look like this, if it where hifi speakers they properly sound horrible, didn't dound anything on the once i bou (soundMAGIC E50C price was the same as the E10C).

Alot of enrgy in the area where the ear are most sensitive is commen

If mine is to much in the highs im gonna use the eq that the phone has (9 band)





Not all have a frequency response like this, which is better than most in ear headphones

 

[Jimboo]

Sorry , what are the squiggly lines supposed to mean?

 

[gasolin]

frequency response of different headphone

 

[Jimboo]

You need a graph to show you that?

 

[davidf]

As mentioned, EQ cannot “improve” the signal. It is for creating a more pleasing sound to your own ears. Personally, I don’t like altering the signal that should be leaving the loudspeaker in any major way (like auto EQs tend to do). You need the highest quality signal leaving the loudspeaker as possible, and you need it to leave the loudspeakers in the same way it was intended to leave the loudspeaker, if that makes sense.

 

[gasolin]

Many headphones (especially in ear headphones) are bright sounding, theres often need for at adjusting the sound using an eq, which my high end phone has, if it where a high end hifi system there wouldn't be any eq since not all high end speakers are not that bright but stil have a good amount of bass so the sound charateristic won't be to bright

 

[abacus]

You may have a perfect signal coming out of the speakers, but unless you have a perfect room then it will not be perfect when it reaches your ears, EQ can be used to reduce some of the anomalies caused by the room to give a more accurate representation of what the engineer heard when they were mastering it.
Proper room correction software is the best way to go, (Unless you have a perfect room) for the most accurate sound, but unfortunately most 2 channel amps dont have it, thus while it may sound nice, it is usually not very accurate, or as intended.

Bill

 

[gasolin]

You may have a perfect signal coming out of the speakers, but unless you have a perfect room then it will not be perfect when it reaches your ears, EQ can be used to reduce some of the anomalies caused by the room to give a more accurate representation of what the engineer heard when they were mastering it.
Proper room correction software is the best way to go, (Unless you have a perfect room) for the most accurate sound, but unfortunately most 2 channel amps dont have it, thus while it may sound nice, it is usually not very accurate, or as intended.

Bill

You forget about nearfield listening and studio monitors

Not all are flat sounding, like the krk rookit who isn't, but they are speaker with adjustemts so they can be flat sounding and besides monitors (screens) there is only little from the speaker to the place where your listening, that can effect the sound.

What is the difference between eq and gain,room acoustics adjustmets, only a few speaker like eve audio, krk rookit gen 4, kef LSX has dsp adjustment.

 

[chris661]

As mentioned, EQ cannot “improve” the signal. It is for creating a more pleasing sound to your own ears. Personally, I don’t like altering the signal that should be leaving the loudspeaker in any major way (like auto EQs tend to do). You need the highest quality signal leaving the loudspeaker as possible, and you need it to leave the loudspeakers in the same way it was intended to leave the loudspeaker, if that makes sense.

You seem to think that loudspeakers are perfect, and I promise they're anything but.

EQ can correct for the following:
- Non-flat loudspeakers, so long as the EQ doesn't result in excess power being dumped in - no point EQing a 3" driver down to 20Hz.
- Room-related issues at low frequencies, where all listening seats show the same issues. NB - not always the case

To reiterate, speakers are not perfect. If, for example a speaker has a +6dB peak somewhere in the treble, it'll stick out as annoying sibilance which wasn't on the original record. The original record would have lovely smooth treble, and the speakers at our end are at fault. EQ can fix that, among other things.

When anyone starts using a graph to show me how my ears should work I shudder. My point is that for all the graphs and makers glossy catalogue blurb , nothing , nothing makes a bad recording better. It starts and ends at the sound the equipment is given to work with. So many hi fi buffs are so eager to embrace the Hz levels of bass and treble etc as some sort of comfort blanket to warrant the ridiculous amount of cash backed by graphs proving a two hundred pound banana plug or a green ring placed around a c.d do anything other than rob you of your hard earned.
I know some of our members wring their hands over the placement of rugs and use laser guided gadgets to place speakers within hundredths of millimeters of equal placement from the rear walls ( a couple of hundred quid lighter in pocket because they had to try every port bung , finally settling on a combination of lama wool and NASA foam used in astronauts helmets) curtains open or closed? Are they better for the bass if they are lined , decisions, decisions.
I listen to the music not to the system. I don't believe in cable lifters and fuses are just fuses. Nothing makes the manics less screechy , there isn't a system on earth that will make the red hot chilli peppers by the way sound anything other than like a dogs dinner. Balancing this and adjusting that , tweaking, measuring etc. It would need to be done every time you play a record or c.d ?
It was recorded , mixed and presented , there it is. No caveat stating EQ bias may need to be adjusted , subwoofer usage is compulsory. They sometimes say play it loud. Relax , listen to the music. It is what a hi fi is for.

Big post, but let's do this.

1 - Just because you don't like graphs, doesn't mean they're wrong or useless. I can give lots of examples where I've listened to a system, found it lacking in some way, used a measurement system to find what's wrong, fixed the issue (whether by EQ, placement, or both), and then heard the improvements.

2 - We're not talking about improving bad recordings. We're talking about getting our HiFi systems to more closely resemble what's on the record.

3 - You'll usually find that the people that measure things are the ones that do NOT spend that sort of money on banana plugs.

4 - No, you measure your system once.

5 - Not even close. Speakers are rubbish - we're literally waving bits of cardboard around with magnets - so they have a lot of non-linearities. EQ can help speakers sound better by fixing some of those non-linearities. Rooms have another set of non-linearities, and sometimes EQ can help there, too.

EQs and tone controls have no place in a true 2 channel system.

Sure, go tell all the studio and live sound engineers.

Chris

 

[Jimboo]

Just because you like graphs doesn't mean they are a good idea, you just quantify music with waves and lines, it's emotional. Finding systems lacking? Buy another one.
Of course your not improving bad recordings , you are trying to closely resemble what's on the record , think about that one.
People that measure things waste Mony on things that measure things , if they borrow a set of banana plugs made from weapons grade plutonium and it is measurable on their graphs , guess who buys it and posts the 'proof' (with graphs galore ).
Measure the system once ? Does that cover a Les ralllizes denudes recording and the original dexy's don't stand me down record or the director's cut?
Speakers are rubbish , makers don't know what their doing , EQ is something they just never considered?
You are spectacularly missing the point. You have the recording. It may be bad , vocal back in the mix (rem-murmer) Motorhead's overkill (mics heavily biased towards the drums at the expense of everything else) The studio engineer heard this so did the producer and the artist , it is presented and packaged and released to us. They all listened to them through speakers in the studio and at home on their speakers and in the car radio.Answers on a postage stamp where the 'talent' blames the EQ as to why he wasn't happy with the release.
My speakers and related system is just fine and dandy. If I had to start ******* around with measurements as a resort for better sound I wouldn't be the happy bunny I am now.
You are listening to the system , watching graphs and causing yourself grief instead of listening to the music. The effort is better spent listening to whether you like the remaster or the original version. The journey to hearing the music is there.