John Duncan
Well-known member
Which is what they just did with the competition to review HD sources and tellies. Which I, um.........what's the word I'm looking for.........
[quote user="JohnDuncan"]Which is what they just did with the competition to review HD sources and tellies. Which I, um.........what's the word I'm looking for.........[/quote]
Splitter!
Splitter!
John Duncan
Well-known member
[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
[quote user="Thaiman"][quote user="Andrew Everard"]If you choose to give credence to such comments that's your problem, not
ours. [/quote]
don't shoot the messenger![/quote]
Ah, so you are just the messenger now.
How do you manage to deliver messages successfully while back-pedalling so furiously?
[/quote]
It's what happen out there and feel free to acuse me for having hidden agenda, I don't want to fall out with forum over this matter!
also feel free to just listen to a good feedbacks which are plenty I am sure and blame some negative comments to other....your magazine is in good enough position.
[quote user="Thaiman"][quote user="Andrew Everard"]If you choose to give credence to such comments that's your problem, not
ours. [/quote]
don't shoot the messenger![/quote]
Ah, so you are just the messenger now.
How do you manage to deliver messages successfully while back-pedalling so furiously?
[/quote]
It's what happen out there and feel free to acuse me for having hidden agenda, I don't want to fall out with forum over this matter!
also feel free to just listen to a good feedbacks which are plenty I am sure and blame some negative comments to other....your magazine is in good enough position.
JamesOK
Well-known member
I guess this depends on how you use them. When I am buying kit I will have a look in the magazines and see what kind of reviews they have, but its the testing you do yourself which is the most important. Admitedly I may disregard a piece of equipment which has for example 1 or 2 stars, but this is because I trust the judgement of the reviewers and if they say something is rubbish I would tend to believe them. Anything above that level though, 3 - 5 I will always consider if it fits my budget, type of system etc.
[quote user="JamesOK"]
I guess this depends on how you use them. When I am buying kit I will have a look in the magazines and see what kind of reviews they have, but its the testing you do yourself which is the most important. Admitedly I may disregard a piece of equipment which has for example 1 or 2 stars, but this is because I trust the judgement of the reviewers and if they say something is rubbish I would tend to believe them. Anything above that level though, 3 - 5 I will always consider if it fits my budget, type of system etc.
[/quote]
Exactly - research, common sense, research, listen, research, common sense, listen common sense, purchase.
I guess this depends on how you use them. When I am buying kit I will have a look in the magazines and see what kind of reviews they have, but its the testing you do yourself which is the most important. Admitedly I may disregard a piece of equipment which has for example 1 or 2 stars, but this is because I trust the judgement of the reviewers and if they say something is rubbish I would tend to believe them. Anything above that level though, 3 - 5 I will always consider if it fits my budget, type of system etc.
[/quote]
Exactly - research, common sense, research, listen, research, common sense, listen common sense, purchase.
John Duncan
Well-known member
Nearly - research, biscuits, common sense, biscuits, research, listen, biscuits, research, common sense,
listen, common sense, biscuits, purchase, listen (with biscuits).
listen, common sense, biscuits, purchase, listen (with biscuits).
[quote user="JohnDuncan"]Nearly - research, biscuits, common sense, biscuits, research, listen, biscuits, research, common sense, listen, common sense, biscuits, purchase, listen (with biscuits).[/quote]
Ah... school boy error.
Ah... school boy error.
John Duncan
Well-known member
I'd like to split the original question down:
Does WHF have a lot of influence - YES.
Does WHF have too much influence - NO.
To asnwer 'yes' to the second question would be to presume they get it wrong and I don't think they do. Of course taste is subjective. I don't read music reviews (and I used to review a lot of music!) because for me I found it too subjective to be useful. Hi-Fi is less subjective than that (would you rather listen to a CD you hate on an excellent system or music you love on a really bad system?) If you think WHF get it wrong then you wouldn't buy the magazine and (apart from those who are here purely to show us all the light) you probably wouldn't post here either, there plenty of other Hi-Fi and other forums online.
Surely by supporting this magazine and website we, well, ummm, support it? If you think WHF has too much influence over consumers and yet you still read it then you must arrogantly believe that it influences other weak minded buyers but not your good self. I'd argue that detracts from your point that it influences the consumer group too much.
Also, what is the point of a review style magazine apart from to influence and inform it's readers? That is the central premise of the whole concept! I haven't the time to listen to every single piece of kit in my price range so I pay people like Clare and Andrew to do it for me. True, they might not have the same view as me but their business depends on building trust in people like me and hence a massive company like Haymarket wouldn't let them get away with being way off the mark all the time.
If you want to read about Hi-Fi and not read reviews that facility exists in the manufacturers literature but I want reviews and cricitcal comparison. What exactly is the alternative? Everything gets 5 stars or none at all? It would be useless!!
I may have been a little vociferous in my attack on 'The Specialist' earlier but I stand by that. I'd also like to add that Thaiman's views are coming across to me as confused at best and when I can ascertain what he's saying it's generally risible.
Does WHF have a lot of influence - YES.
Does WHF have too much influence - NO.
To asnwer 'yes' to the second question would be to presume they get it wrong and I don't think they do. Of course taste is subjective. I don't read music reviews (and I used to review a lot of music!) because for me I found it too subjective to be useful. Hi-Fi is less subjective than that (would you rather listen to a CD you hate on an excellent system or music you love on a really bad system?) If you think WHF get it wrong then you wouldn't buy the magazine and (apart from those who are here purely to show us all the light) you probably wouldn't post here either, there plenty of other Hi-Fi and other forums online.
Surely by supporting this magazine and website we, well, ummm, support it? If you think WHF has too much influence over consumers and yet you still read it then you must arrogantly believe that it influences other weak minded buyers but not your good self. I'd argue that detracts from your point that it influences the consumer group too much.
Also, what is the point of a review style magazine apart from to influence and inform it's readers? That is the central premise of the whole concept! I haven't the time to listen to every single piece of kit in my price range so I pay people like Clare and Andrew to do it for me. True, they might not have the same view as me but their business depends on building trust in people like me and hence a massive company like Haymarket wouldn't let them get away with being way off the mark all the time.
If you want to read about Hi-Fi and not read reviews that facility exists in the manufacturers literature but I want reviews and cricitcal comparison. What exactly is the alternative? Everything gets 5 stars or none at all? It would be useless!!
I may have been a little vociferous in my attack on 'The Specialist' earlier but I stand by that. I'd also like to add that Thaiman's views are coming across to me as confused at best and when I can ascertain what he's saying it's generally risible.
[quote user="Thaiman"]... for once "stop listen to HiFi and Listen to music instead" that what HiFi equipments are for.[/quote]
thank god! Finally there is a statement in this debate that I would love to agree with and advocate any day to any one.
thank god! Finally there is a statement in this debate that I would love to agree with and advocate any day to any one.
[quote user="Clare Newsome"]Look at Onkyo - who'd have thought they'd dominate AV receivers for 2007/8 'season'?[/quote]
Sorry to chip in but I hope the record for number of posts is broken! I think the crux of the issue in response to Claire's post above is that if WHF had graded Onkyo lower would Onkyo have dominated the market this year the way it had? Now no one has a crystal ball but I think the answer is possibly not, or not to the extreme that it has. And that's obviously not to say that WHF have done anything but be honest in its appraisals but by the very fact that in exercising its opinion it has undoubtedly exacerbated the sales of Onkyo by influencing the decision of its vast readership, which to be fair are not generally audiophiles but newbie's looking for some advice and are much more likely to buy a product blind. I can't see how any logical argument can say that Onkyo's sales was not exacerbated by WHFs views, and that goes for every other 5 star rated product and I think the point made by Thaiman's who referenced Cyrus and Roksan. So it's because of the trust that the vast readership has placed on WHF, due to it being such a well written mag, which means it has too much influence. The same argument can be applied to Tesco, Microsoft, Sky or Nestle.
Sorry to chip in but I hope the record for number of posts is broken! I think the crux of the issue in response to Claire's post above is that if WHF had graded Onkyo lower would Onkyo have dominated the market this year the way it had? Now no one has a crystal ball but I think the answer is possibly not, or not to the extreme that it has. And that's obviously not to say that WHF have done anything but be honest in its appraisals but by the very fact that in exercising its opinion it has undoubtedly exacerbated the sales of Onkyo by influencing the decision of its vast readership, which to be fair are not generally audiophiles but newbie's looking for some advice and are much more likely to buy a product blind. I can't see how any logical argument can say that Onkyo's sales was not exacerbated by WHFs views, and that goes for every other 5 star rated product and I think the point made by Thaiman's who referenced Cyrus and Roksan. So it's because of the trust that the vast readership has placed on WHF, due to it being such a well written mag, which means it has too much influence. The same argument can be applied to Tesco, Microsoft, Sky or Nestle.
[quote user="Carzy Dragon"]
I'd like to split the original question down:
Does WHF have a lot of influence - YES.
Does WHF have too much influence - NO.
To asnwer 'yes' to the second question would be to presume they get it wrong and I don't think they do. Of course taste is subjective. I don't read music reviews (and I used to review a lot of music!) because for me I found it too subjective to be useful. Hi-Fi is less subjective than that (would you rather listen to a CD you hate on an excellent system or music you love on a really bad system?) If you think WHF get it wrong then you wouldn't buy the magazine and (apart from those who are here purely to show us all the light) you probably wouldn't post here either, there plenty of other Hi-Fi and other forums online.
Surely by supporting this magazine and website we, well, ummm, support it? If you think WHF has too much influence over consumers and yet you still read it then you must arrogantly believe that it influences other weak minded buyers but not your good self. I'd argue that detracts from your point that it influences the consumer group too much.
Also, what is the point of a review style magazine apart from to influence and inform it's readers? That is the central premise of the whole concept! I haven't the time to listen to every single piece of kit in my price range so I pay people like Clare and Andrew to do it for me. True, they might not have the same view as me but their business depends on building trust in people like me and hence a massive company like Haymarket wouldn't let them get away with being way off the mark all the time.
If you want to read about Hi-Fi and not read reviews that facility exists in the manufacturers literature but I want reviews and cricitcal comparison. What exactly is the alternative? Everything gets 5 stars or none at all? It would be useless!!
I may have been a little vociferous in my attack on 'The Specialist' earlier but I stand by that. I'd also like to add that Thaiman's views are coming across to me as confused at best and when I can ascertain what he's saying it's generally risible.
[/quote]
Risible? That is well below the belt when aimed at someone whose first language isn't English. I suggest you try posting in Thai on a Thailand-run forum and see if you are fully understood.
I'd like to split the original question down:
Does WHF have a lot of influence - YES.
Does WHF have too much influence - NO.
To asnwer 'yes' to the second question would be to presume they get it wrong and I don't think they do. Of course taste is subjective. I don't read music reviews (and I used to review a lot of music!) because for me I found it too subjective to be useful. Hi-Fi is less subjective than that (would you rather listen to a CD you hate on an excellent system or music you love on a really bad system?) If you think WHF get it wrong then you wouldn't buy the magazine and (apart from those who are here purely to show us all the light) you probably wouldn't post here either, there plenty of other Hi-Fi and other forums online.
Surely by supporting this magazine and website we, well, ummm, support it? If you think WHF has too much influence over consumers and yet you still read it then you must arrogantly believe that it influences other weak minded buyers but not your good self. I'd argue that detracts from your point that it influences the consumer group too much.
Also, what is the point of a review style magazine apart from to influence and inform it's readers? That is the central premise of the whole concept! I haven't the time to listen to every single piece of kit in my price range so I pay people like Clare and Andrew to do it for me. True, they might not have the same view as me but their business depends on building trust in people like me and hence a massive company like Haymarket wouldn't let them get away with being way off the mark all the time.
If you want to read about Hi-Fi and not read reviews that facility exists in the manufacturers literature but I want reviews and cricitcal comparison. What exactly is the alternative? Everything gets 5 stars or none at all? It would be useless!!
I may have been a little vociferous in my attack on 'The Specialist' earlier but I stand by that. I'd also like to add that Thaiman's views are coming across to me as confused at best and when I can ascertain what he's saying it's generally risible.
[/quote]
Risible? That is well below the belt when aimed at someone whose first language isn't English. I suggest you try posting in Thai on a Thailand-run forum and see if you are fully understood.
[quote user="simonkee"][quote user="Clare Newsome"]Look at Onkyo - who'd have thought they'd dominate AV receivers for 2007/8 'season'?[/quote]
Sorry to chip in but I hope the record for number of posts is broken! I think the crux of the issue in response to Claire's post above is that if WHF had graded Onkyo lower would Onkyo have dominated the market this year the way it had? Now no one has a crystal ball but I think the answer is possibly not, or not to the extreme that it has. And that's obviously not to say that WHF have done anything but be honest in its appraisals but by the very fact that in exercising its opinion it has undoubtedly exacerbated the sales of Onkyo by influencing the decision of its vast readership, which to be fair are not generally audiophiles but newbie's looking for some advice and are much more likely to buy a product blind. I can't see how any logical argument can say that Onkyo's sales was not exacerbated by WHFs views, and that goes for every other 5 star rated product and I think the point made by Thaiman's who referenced Cyrus and Roksan. So it's because of the trust that the vast readership has placed on WHF, due to it being such a well written mag, which means it has too much influence. The same argument can be applied to Tesco, Microsoft, Sky or Nestle.[/quote]
As i've mentioned above, we're well aware of the power our reviews can have (cue 'with power comes great responsibility' Spider-man quote), but consumers - lord love everyone - make the choice to buy our magazine and take our advice: we don't force our opinions on anyone, or insist that they are the only ones they should consider (their own being the most important, obviously).
If we find an absolutely storming
product for the money - like the Onkyos, which every other
magazine also praised highly - shouldn't we tell people about it?
Sorry to chip in but I hope the record for number of posts is broken! I think the crux of the issue in response to Claire's post above is that if WHF had graded Onkyo lower would Onkyo have dominated the market this year the way it had? Now no one has a crystal ball but I think the answer is possibly not, or not to the extreme that it has. And that's obviously not to say that WHF have done anything but be honest in its appraisals but by the very fact that in exercising its opinion it has undoubtedly exacerbated the sales of Onkyo by influencing the decision of its vast readership, which to be fair are not generally audiophiles but newbie's looking for some advice and are much more likely to buy a product blind. I can't see how any logical argument can say that Onkyo's sales was not exacerbated by WHFs views, and that goes for every other 5 star rated product and I think the point made by Thaiman's who referenced Cyrus and Roksan. So it's because of the trust that the vast readership has placed on WHF, due to it being such a well written mag, which means it has too much influence. The same argument can be applied to Tesco, Microsoft, Sky or Nestle.[/quote]
As i've mentioned above, we're well aware of the power our reviews can have (cue 'with power comes great responsibility' Spider-man quote), but consumers - lord love everyone - make the choice to buy our magazine and take our advice: we don't force our opinions on anyone, or insist that they are the only ones they should consider (their own being the most important, obviously).
If we find an absolutely storming
product for the money - like the Onkyos, which every other
magazine also praised highly - shouldn't we tell people about it?
timwileman
Well-known member
i think a better question/debate is do the media (in general) have too much influence.........i mean lets not bash the good folks at WHFSAV for being helpful and knowing what they are talking about, rather its the 'uninformed' media i dont like..... ps if you really dont like the magazine dont buy it........ truly bad magazines will fold as readerships drop, me i will contine to purchase the magazine, while being able to think for myself......
[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
As i've mentioned above, we're well aware of the power our reviews can have (cue 'with power comes great responsibility' Spider-man quote), but consumers - lord love everyone - make the choice to buy our magazine and take our advice: we don't force our opinions on anyone, or insist that they are the only ones they should consider (their own being the most important, obviously).
If we find an absolutely storming
product for the money - like the Onkyos, which every other
magazine also praised highly - shouldn't we tell people about it?
[/quote]
Yes you should tell people about it. But due to the size of the readership and the influence of the WHF on the readership is why my argument reasons towards that WHF has too much influence. And no doubt others will support the view that people have their own opinions, which they do of course...to a point. But I refer to Nazi Germany for my counter-argument to this. And I am making a point, no cheap shot, moral high ground stances due to my comparison please.
As i've mentioned above, we're well aware of the power our reviews can have (cue 'with power comes great responsibility' Spider-man quote), but consumers - lord love everyone - make the choice to buy our magazine and take our advice: we don't force our opinions on anyone, or insist that they are the only ones they should consider (their own being the most important, obviously).
If we find an absolutely storming
product for the money - like the Onkyos, which every other
magazine also praised highly - shouldn't we tell people about it?
[/quote]
Yes you should tell people about it. But due to the size of the readership and the influence of the WHF on the readership is why my argument reasons towards that WHF has too much influence. And no doubt others will support the view that people have their own opinions, which they do of course...to a point. But I refer to Nazi Germany for my counter-argument to this. And I am making a point, no cheap shot, moral high ground stances due to my comparison please.
And the point at which we're compared to the Third Reich, I think it's time for this thread to say goodbye.
Thanks everyone for your feedback - always healthy to have a strong debate, as regulars up here will appreciate.
Thanks everyone for your feedback - always healthy to have a strong debate, as regulars up here will appreciate.
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