Diy room treatment

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Hi guy's with all the recent interest in acoustic room treatment and dsp .I reckon it might deserve a thread on its own...

Any diy enthusiastic people could post what's and how's of such undertakings.

Also how to measure you're room and what to do about it and where to do it within a particular room would all be very helpful to the uninitiated.

I have noticed at my place of work...we have quite a few tatra ceiling tiles lying around unused and some water damaged...I'm just thinking would they make a good Base ingredient for an acoustic wall panel....I wouldn't mind trying my hand at making some diy efforts.

The usual stuff seems to be owens corning fibreglass panels which so far I can only find at gikacoustics which is based in the states,making it a bit expensive for mail order.so just thought if this ceiling tile stuff could do a job if I make it up in a stud type frame with some acoustic fabric tightly fitted etc.

Although I'm not even sure if I have any acoustic issues in my room ...but it seems every room has issues....I thought I'd might as well give it a try if it's cheap enough to do yourself....even though the wife hasn't been consulted as yet but I'm sure I can make it pretty.lol

 

[insider9]

Measuring the room would have to be a start. It's a big subject but worthy of a thread. It can be done at a budget and with decent results. Making your own panels it's extremely easy. Diffusers not so much. Research takes forever.

One thing I'll say if you do it. It'll be the biggest single upgrade you your system. Best part it'll be there should you decide to upgrade components.

 

[insider9]

You can guesstimate a number of things.

What are all three dimensions of the room? What are the surfaces made of? Is there a suspended floor or ceiling?

Then what wall are the speakers positioned how far for walls? And what's your sitting position in relation to a wall?

I can run a quick sim for you if you provide these details

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I wouldn’t bother Mark. I think it has marginal effects to the whole acoustic environment, and if the speakers aren’t big and therfore are less likely to create significant room effects, it’s a waste of time. Also depends how loud you listen too.

 

[insider9]

I wouldn’t bother Mark. I think it has marginal effects to the whole acoustic environment, and if the speakers aren’t big and therfore are less likely to create significant room effects, it’s a waste of time. Also depends how loud you listen too. 

Marginal? We're not talking about cables here. We're talking about things that make massive difference. In any room, unless the room is huge and then still. Volume will of course matter but every speaker reacts with a room. And no it's not subjective.

*shok*

 

[Vladimir]

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

What if the room shape or layout is very bad and you just have to put up with it, is my point. No number of putting up panels and other effects will make a huge difference. You see lots of people with speakers up against couches and I suspect in bad set ups panel abosrption will probably not make a lot of difference.

And most have to fit their hi Fi around the room and other things, not have a dedicated room with absorption panels and all sorts of stuff like that. I supect the best way is to get someone to sound assess the room, and then consider the expense of panels and other stuff. Putting up sound panels with small speakers would be overkill I think.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

OK insider I shall give you a guesstimate...

My room is a upper flat with suspended floor (wooden floorboards).walls are good old fashioned proper brick...single behind the speakers and double bricked towards the firing line

4.8mx3.6m. With the ceiling around 2.5m

My speakers sit either side of a large wooden mango TV unit with around two feet either side free and around 2metres apart firing across the shorter length of the room towards my sitting position about 1.8 -2.0 metres.....the speakers are 8-10 cm's from the wall and are around 1 metre each from the side walls.the room is carpeted with leather sofas and also a mango coffee table in the centre of the room pretty much..good luck.lol

 

[insider9]

Will post some pics in a few minutes based on this.

In the meantime don't listen to Quest *secret*

 

[insider9]

First link here

Your room dimension ratios are excellent. Notice Bolt Area on the link above.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

But you might trash your living room with towels in picture frames......or how about old teddy bears on walls, works wonders for room treatment apparently if you dont mind zippy looking at you. Lol.

The video the guy did made me laugh as he videod the window being closed and open in the two configurations.

Ive no doubt it works where needed in powerful installations, id just use common sense. Don’t start trying it if you haven’t a concern, just to be in on trying something.

 

[Vladimir]

Mine is 4.6m x 4.2m x 2.6m (not calculating the dinner/kitchen area. Terrible proportions (squares are the worst), sparsely furnished. I've struggled with a 70Hz bass hump for over a year. Finally managed to position the speakers to minimize it, but still not ideal.

 

[insider9]

Here's the listening position as most people would have

here And here's if you moved forward to about a meter from back wall here

That's a very decent response through bass if you sit about a meter from back wall. Bass is much more difficult to deal with so that's very good.

Measuring the room would tell you much more but I'd definitely suggest at least measuring your room. Do not listen to "old teddy bears on walls, works wonders" comments.

 

[insider9]

Mine is 4.6m x 4.2m x 2.6m (not calculating the dinner/kitchen area. Terrible proportions (squares are the worst), sparsely furnished. I've struggled with a 70Hz bass hump for over a year. Finally managed to position the speakers to minimize it, but still not ideal.

Are you sitting right in the middle of the room (lenght wise)? You should be relatively safe in low bass otherwise. Unless bass reverb is high overall.

 

[insider9]

Depends what the problem is, generally I would say there are 2 main issues, first is bass, often too much in smaller rooms, the other higher freq. reflecting. You can do a simple test by clapping your hands and hearing if there is an echo, if you have a lots of hard surfaces then you can add carpets, heavy curtains etc,. DIY you can do quite a lot by buying acoustic insulation, simple to rockwool you have in lofts. You need to find reflection points, can use mirrors, on walls, ceiling you best measure. Bass you can put bass traps in corners if it is an issue. There is loads of info online. Some products are not that expensive, have a look on ebay. Here is some rockwall: http://www.rockwool.co.uk/products/rockwool-sound-insulation-slab/​

Quite agree. Just don't buy any Rockwool. Thickness and density will matter a lot depending on intended purpose.

 

[BigH]

Depends what the problem is, generally I would say there are 2 main issues, first is bass, often too much in smaller rooms, the other higher freq. reflecting. You can do a simple test by clapping your hands and hearing if there is an echo, if you have a lots of hard surfaces then you can add carpets, heavy curtains etc,. DIY you can do quite a lot by buying acoustic insulation, simple to rockwool you have in lofts. You need to find reflection points, can use mirrors, on walls, ceiling you best measure. Bass you can put bass traps in corners if it is an issue. There is loads of info online. Some products are not that expensive, have a look on ebay. Here is some rockwool: http://www.rockwool.co.uk/products/rockwool-sound-insulation-slab/​

 

[Vladimir]

Sitting in the middle but reverb is high. I'm walking the edge between bloated harmonica bass and immense 70Hz boom. Currently in the harmonica type, its less of a headache. It's too obvious I'm listening boxes inside a box. Some rooms manage to mask this, but not mine. Zero soft furniture and almost no carpeting doesn't help.

 

[insider9]

Looking at some grpahs you should be getting peaks at 80Hz and nils around 70Hz. Regardless that third of an octave is the worst in your room.

How far apart are the speakers?

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Thanks insider.looking at your seating position graph..I'm at the first one..the coffee table seems to occupy that sweet spot.lol.

So I've pretty much got a decent shape and size room to start with...that's a bonus and I will have to ask her indoors for a seal of approval if I want to start hanging things on the walls....Tbc.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

the problem with being given a measurement is you tend to then believe you should hear a difference, if you are that type who believes your measuring devices, or others assessments of them, as to then say you can’t hear a difference is to deny the measuring, which for some is a stretch too far. And the variables that go into predicting sound effects are huge.

If your room is ok, you like the sound and don’t perceive issues, and you don’t have concerns Mark, just don’t bother. I’ve got a long relatively thin room with carpets and soft furnishings and if I put my ear to the back wall the bass is heavier but it’s not a huge or good difference at modest volume levels. But the measurements should show they are maybe? What’s then good, what are the volumes at which they are measured. You see how we can now start adding variables as to what you ‘should’ hear. Remember it’s always that, not what you do hear. Sorry I’m being sarcastic with this comment.

But you can see we start then going into stuff which is hard to solve to a problem that might not exist. This is the usual pretentious hi Fi dilemma with so many variables. Its a headf—k. Just go on what pleases you, if you’ve got an issue with soundquality, then look to resolve it. Don’t look to resolve something which maybe isn’t an issue. This is why people have speaker isolation devices when it may not make a huge difference, or plinths under speakers or god knows what’s on walls. They are resolving problems that often don’t exist.

 

[insider9]

Thanks insider.looking at your seating position graph..I'm at the first one..the coffee table seems to occupy that sweet spot.lol.

So I've pretty much got a decent shape and size room to start with...that's a bonus and I will have to ask her indoors for a seal of approval if I want to start hanging things on the walls....Tbc.

I'd measure first. See if you can buy UMIK-1 second hand. This way if you move it on the loss will be minimal. They're in demand so moving it on won't be a problem.

When you've measured it'll be much easier to tell what's needed. Fingers crossed might not be much.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Buying a microphone to a problem that maybe doesn’t exist or isn’t perceived, would be like me buying one to measure the plop sound in the toilet when I’ve no need.

 

[Vladimir]

2m appart, 25cm from back wall, right speaker 57cm from sidewall.

Floor plan

 

[insider9]

Buying a microphone to a problem that maybe doesn’t exist or isn’t perceived, would be like me buying one to measure the plop sound in the toilet when I’ve no need.

I'm not going to entertain this level of debate. Either make your points in a grown up manner or not at all.

For someone who spent a significant amount of money on cables that make significantly less difference I'm in disbelief that you would begrudge anyone trying to make actual difference by spending less.

 

[insider9]

2m appart, 25cm from back wall, right speaker 57cm from sidewall.

Floor plan

Let me have a look for you. The overal volume here will make a difference.