Ditch vinyl and reduce box count?

[Al ears]

I know this will ruffle a few feathers, but modern formats, CD included, sound better than vinyl. Fact. Vinyl belongs with all the other soft, low res media, in the 70s and people need to take off their rose tinted vinyl glasses and stop being so nostalgic. Modern recording studio kit, requires better quality playback methods, with CD coming closer to the recording, than LPs, or cassettes, could ever dream of. High res streaming devices are just about the same quality as the original data, dumped on a digital recorder, in a fancy studio.

I think you miss the point completely when it comes to formats, but that's my opinion, you are of course entitled to yours.
Many years ago someone told me there was an amazing new digital format, it was called mp3......

 

[manicm]

I too am in a real dilemma. Since we did floor renovations and my soundbar gave up the ghost, I'm at a loss at what to get. I've recently acquired a not inexpensive LG C1 4K TV, and for the last 3 years, have been watching more movies than pure music listening.

My living room arrangement precludes an ideally placed Atmos soundbar with side-firing speakers al Sonos Arc and the new Sennheiser Ambeo Plus, both of which I'm still seriously considering.

Another option is getting the LSX 2 and just placing them on the 1200mm table on which sits my Blu-ray player. My TV is on the wall. KEF sells upward angled table stands. But the speakers will be fairly near to each other. Unless I get a proper AV table/furniture and the wife sees duty for her table elsewhere.

Another option - and one I would suggest to Matthew as well - the Denon Ceol 10 - which I think is quite similar to the Marantz 612, but much cheaper. Then I would get 2 small speakers with matching subwoofer.

I'm still buying new CDs at an alarming rate.

 

[Witterings]

Another option - and one I would suggest to Matthew as well - the Denon Ceol 10 - which I think is quite similar to the Marantz 612, but much cheaper.

With the recent price drop in the Marantz there's only £50 difference.

 

[matthewpianist]

Bronze 200s quietly running-in whilst I work, currently with the Rega amp. They already sound very 'human' and it will be interesting to hear how different they sound with the Marantz '612. The beauty is that if the Marantz doesn't do it for me I can return it, so it's a pretty safe situation.

 

[podknocker]

Feathers ruffled, Most us vinyl listeners also stream and listen to cd's, we're not that stupid believe it or not....it's a getting involved with media thing for me and I like it.

I'm not saying people are stupid, because they enjoy their vinyl. I'm also not wanting to sound patronising. The thing is, coveting, caressing and even smelling the LP sleeve and getting excited about the physical properties and the tactility of vinyl, DOESN'T make it sound better. Recording and playback technology in 2022 DOES sound better, than recording and playback technology, developed and released, in the middle of the last century. Someone mentioned the mp3 format, but this is a compressed format. A high res 24/192 or MQA file will give you so much more detail, than the same music, copied onto a BASF C90 cassette, or an LP record. I'm not suggesting vinyl lovers are Luddites, but there seems to be an excessive amount of sentimentality about this format and I've never understood why.

 

[nickcornwall]

Even as a vinyl enthusiast I wonder if the vinyl vs CD vs streaming argument is pretty redundant as so much depends on the quality of the equipment. i love my P8/Apheta deck and it knocks my Primare NP5/ Chord 2Qute streaming combo out of the park. But presumably this would be reversed if I spent serious money on a streamer!

 

[matthewpianist]

The Marantz/MA combination is proving to be very persuasive sounding though it is of course early days.

I've had to create a return and replacement for the MAs unfortunately, as they arrived with a crease in the edge of a bass/mid unit. They were also wobbling around in the packaging when they arrived, which proved to be a result of broken polystyrene inserts at the ends.

 

[DIB]

I knocked vinyl on the head a few years back. I had about 400 LPs and a decent mid range ProJect deck but very rarely played them. The price of new LPs was becoming too prohibitive and the price of CDs (new and old) was falling . I was also looking at freeing up room in the lounge where all my gear was set up, so I bit the bullet and flogged off the lot apart from my amp, cdp, squeezebox,and speakers. Over the years I've ripped my CD collection and I've got about 1500 albums on a NAS tucked away in the other room. Since then I've reduced the box count to the bare minimum with the purchase of a Cyrus Lyric.

Everyone's got their own opinion but I don't miss vinyl one bit, still play as much music as I ever have done, and most importantly still enjoy it just as much.

 

[matthewpianist]

Whilst awaiting confirmation of collection and replacement of the slightly damaged Bronze 200s I've made time to put them and the Marantz through their paces at all volumes and with the vast range of music I love.

It's a special combination, the equipment seemingly disappearing to leave space for the music. I don't feel like I'm losing anything that matters to me. I already knew I like HEOS better than any other streaming platform, and CD replay is superb. I haven't yet connected my turntable and iFi phono stage.

 

[robdmarsh]

I already knew I like HEOS better than any other streaming platform

Wow, that statement I find hard to believe. I had the matching Denon streamer to my pma 800ne for about 24 hours and the thing I really didn't like about it apart from the very underwhelming sound quality was the HEOS interface. But then again I think I'm weird when it comes to streaming because I absolutely love the ifi Zen blue and have stopped there.

I don't give a monkeys that being bluetooth it's not genuine hi-res, the sound is very organic and pleasing to me and what's great about it is that I don't have to use one of those dreadful UIs like HEOS or BluOS but have enjoyed exploring so much new music with Amazon HD's excellent native app on my phone. The ifi has zero other features apart from being a bluetooth receiver with a really good DAC for its ridiculously low price and I think it's this simplicity which makes it such a winner in my book. I know about BluOS because my second mistake was getting a Node 2021, which I really didn't like at all, very digital sounding to my ears and BluOS had no appeal to me as I exclusively use Amazon music and don't want MQA or two way bluetooth or any of its other gizmos. Of course for many a big drawback ofusing a bluetooth receiver, even one as excellent as the ifi, is that notifications come over the speakers, but for me it's no biggie at all.

 

[matthewpianist]

Wow, that statement I find hard to believe. I had the matching Denon streamer to my pma 800ne for about 24 hours and the thing I really didn't like about it apart from the very underwhelming sound quality was the HEOS interface. But then again I think I'm weird when it comes to streaming because I absolutely love the ifi Zen blue and have stopped there.

I don't give a monkeys that being bluetooth it's not genuine hi-res, the sound is very organic and pleasing to me and what's great about it is that I don't have to use one of those dreadful UIs like HEOS or BluOS but have enjoyed exploring so much new music with Amazon HD's excellent native app on my phone. The ifi has zero other features apart from being a bluetooth receiver with a really good DAC for its ridiculously low price and I think it's this simplicity which makes it such a winner in my book. I know about BluOS because my second mistake was getting a Node 2021, which I really didn't like at all, very digital sounding to my ears and BluOS had no appeal to me as I exclusively use Amazon music and don't want MQA or two way bluetooth or any of its other gizmos. Of course for many a big drawback ofusing a bluetooth receiver, even one as excellent as the ifi, is that notifications come over the speakers, but for me it's no biggie at all.

I had the DNP-800NE and found it to be excellent, even through the much more exposing PMA-1600NE. Granted, the sound wasn't as good as CD or SACD played on the battleship DCD-1600NE, but I was happy with it as a streamer.

I've used BluOS (and still have a Node 2i), MusicCast, HEOS and Bluetooth AptX (the latter through my Cyrus ONE HD). Bluetooth sounds surprisingly good through the Cyrus, but as an all-round platform I like HEOS best. Streaming isn't my main source by any stretch of the imagination, I only use it for trying out new music before buying the CD or when I'm too lazy to find a CD I already have.

There's no doubt about it, if I had a large room and needed lots of power, the Marantz would be insufficient. In different financial circumstances I wouldn't be parting with the big Denon SACD player and amp, but given the context I'm more than happy with the little Marantz and the perfectly suited MAs.

 

[Rui]

Space is increasingly becoming an issue, and this has been one of the factors in me switching back to using the more compact Rega CD and amp, and also the Bluesound streamer. I've already ditched my bulky Atacama hi-fi stand, but having a turntable significantly adds bulk to my system and increases placement demands. I have around 300 LPs which also take up a lot of space. I don't think hi-fi needs to dominate a room to sound great these days, and if it doesn't it is easier to focus on the music.

Part of me would love to leave physical media behind altogether, but I do enjoy the tactile side of using CD and vinyl, and I find liner notes extremely useful. My CD collection is huge (around 4,000 discs, including some large classical box sets dedicated to musicians including Bernstein, Brendel, Gould, Perahia, Solti and Menuhin), and I'm not going to move away from that.

I'm starting to consider ditching vinyl. I can't afford the prices being charged for new or decent secondhand LPs anymore, and it's become my least used source. Using either the Rega/Cyrus gear, or switching to the Marantz MCR612 or Technics SA-C600 with the Focal or a pair of Dali Oberon 5s would give me everything I need in terms of functionality, and would also be very compact and room friendly. Despite my experience, I'm interested in hearing your views on whether I'd miss much....

I don´t have that problem , i have enough space , but i get what you´re refering to ,it´s today ridiculous expensive and new records do are badly fabricated ,but i´ve got around 5000 records and the same number in cds also reels and cassettes and a few hundred minidiscs, for a lot of years i didn´t buy a record ,only when my copy of the unknown pleasures from joy division got destroyd by mould ,i bought in 2017 another record, till today i bought 50 more Lp´s, but some do get noise being stored in the same place as older records and that´s the problem ,i smoke so i have my window opened till late hours and humidity is a problem but till some years ago there was no humidity in the air ,maybe the reason i have 60´s lp´s sounding new . when spotify appeared i installed in my computer that i had already conected to my main system, because i had already two disks a 1 TB and a 500 Gb filled with mp3 and other formats of digital music , and in the first two years i instead of looking for a record i just searched for it on spotify and listen and made hundreds of playlists, i´m a music junky, even when sleeping i have the music playing and when i wake up it´s already playing loud music , but going for cds if you don´t have enough room it´s a good option , i have a system in my garage that i assembled with components i had already at home and receiving friends in the garage wich it as a small room divided by a plexy glass wall , i having to hear music there i went for a integrated amplifier by pioneer the A-717mkII with the GR-777 equalizer a SL-3310 technics turntable from 76 , a cd player the PD-S803 also from pioneer and wanting to have loud sound i install a pair of cs-997 (pioneer) but all sound wasn´t there the mids were missing even with the equalizer, i install on top of the cs-997 a pair of SB-f3 from technics (79 model)and they do sound good, and the cd player that i bought in second hand it surprised me a lot for it´s sound output, it sounds better than some of my friends systems that cost a lot of money , so cds are today very good ,only old music the cd is not comparable with the old records ,this because of many reasons. But cds are a good option if vinil takes too much of you´re room

 

[matthewpianist]

An update...

The damaged Bronze 200s went back, and I decided to try something different in replacement. Enter, the Acoustic Energy AE109 Mk.2. In short, they are astoundingly good and seem to be ideal partners for both the Marantz and my listening space.

The Bronze 200s were very good and had some lovely qualities, but the AEs are tighter sounding and more rhythmic, with a better balance across the frequency range. It's probably a room interaction thing, but where there was some slight bass overhang from the MAs, the AE109s offer up more tuneful and snappy bass with plenty of texture. Soundstaging, both front to back and left to right is exceptional, and there's oodles of detail.

Surprisingly, as it is traditionally a Monitor Audio strength, the AEs are better built and also better packaged.

Still undecided on the vinyl front, but I do now have a relatively compact system that matches the best of the separates I've had previously.

 

[Dom]

I'm speechless

 

[matthewpianist]

I should add, these also arrived with cosmetic damage and will be going back, but I'm definitely going for the same in replacement. They're stunning.

 

[Moonfanatic]

I ditched all my vinyl a year ago and moved to a fully digital system with a streamer and a music server to hold ripped CDs and downloads. No regrets at all. What is far more important to me is simply to be able to enjoy the music, not the interactive experience you get, notably with vinyl. I know for some people, that’s important. Vinyl, even 2nd hand has become expensive, and it’s hard to justify the cost over a download or a CD. That said, some albums were better mastered on vinyl and have never been remastered satisfactorily on digital, so there is a bit of a sacrifice there in terms of flexibility. The other point is that there are also some rarer recordings that never made it into the digital world. So, it’s an important decision, and like everything in this hobby, there are no right or wrong answers, it’s what works for you. Maybe you could box up your vinyl for six months and see how you feel before parting with it?

 

[FMIB]

I must admit it's something that has also been on my mind for a while.
Apart from regaining some floor space by being able to remove 1 equipment rack, 1 record storage cabinet and a CD rack, as I age, I have started to find it a real bind to keep getting up to change a CD or worse, every 15 mins or so for a record. The back and knees are not what they used to be and the simplicity of an almost endless selection of albums available at the touch of my phone screen via Tidal is slowly becoming the choice of listening.
My current thinking is if I sell off the record deck, phono amp and CD player I could invest in a high quality stand alone DAC and connect my Cambridge CXN V2 to it as the streamer.
Age is a *****!

 

[Al ears]

I must admit it's something that has also been on my mind for a while.
Apart from regaining some floor space by being able to remove 1 equipment rack, 1 record storage cabinet and a CD rack, as I age, I have started to find it a real bind to keep getting up to change a CD or worse, every 15 mins or so for a record. The back and knees are not what they used to be and the simplicity of an almost endless selection of albums available at the touch of my phone screen via Tidal is slowly becoming the choice of listening.
My current thinking is if I sell off the record deck, phono amp and CD player I could invest in a high quality stand alone DAC and connect my Cambridge CXN V2 to it as the streamer.
Age is a *****!

ain't that the truth!

 

[plastic penguin]

Having owned both floorstanders and standmounts, it's irrelevant when it comes to space saving. Once you add stands they roughly take up the same amount of room. The only real solution is to fix speakers to dedicated wall brackets.

Also I think metal stands look 'orrible, that's why after the festive period I'll look at wooden alternatives.

My downsizing from TB2s to Dalis is mainly due the cabinet height and width has been reduced - those PMCs are chunky monitors, but in reality there's little physical difference when it comes to space saving.

 

[nickcornwall]

I must admit it's something that has also been on my mind for a while.
Apart from regaining some floor space by being able to remove 1 equipment rack, 1 record storage cabinet and a CD rack, as I age, I have started to find it a real bind to keep getting up to change a CD or worse, every 15 mins or so for a record. The back and knees are not what they used to be and the simplicity of an almost endless selection of albums available at the touch of my phone screen via Tidal is slowly becoming the choice of listening.
My current thinking is if I sell off the record deck, phono amp and CD player I could invest in a high quality stand alone DAC and connect my Cambridge CXN V2 to it as the streamer.
Age is a *****!

I really get the advantage of easy access to lots of albums. But if I want to just pop on some music vinyl is way quicker for me. Turn on the system, put on a record, drop the arm. Or…. Made sure my phone is on the main network not the extender, wait for the streamer to connect, find the album I want (at least now using Qobuz rather then Tidal which is rubbish for classical music), press play, then cast, then rewind because I’ve missed the start of the track, etc etc. I’ll carry on with both because access to new digital releases is brilliant, but I can’t imagine giving up the vinyl knee exercise any time soon!

 

[Al ears]

I really get the advantage of easy access to lots of albums. But if I want to just pop on some music vinyl is way quicker for me. Turn on the system, put on a record, drop the arm. Or…. Made sure my phone is on the main network not the extender, wait for the streamer to connect, find the album I want (at least now using Qobuz rather then Tidal which is rubbish for classical music), press play, then cast, then rewind because I’ve missed the start of the track, etc etc. I’ll carry on with both because access to new digital releases is brilliant, but I can’t imagine giving up the vinyl knee exercise any time soon!

likewise

 

[FMIB]

I really get the advantage of easy access to lots of albums. But if I want to just pop on some music vinyl is way quicker for me. Turn on the system, put on a record, drop the arm. Or…. Made sure my phone is on the main network not the extender, wait for the streamer to connect, find the album I want (at least now using Qobuz rather then Tidal which is rubbish for classical music), press play, then cast, then rewind because I’ve missed the start of the track, etc etc. I’ll carry on with both because access to new digital releases is brilliant, but I can’t imagine giving up the vinyl knee exercise any time soon!

I hear you, but putting on a quick vinyl is not quick for me. By the time my pre-amp is ready, the streamer is up and running and connected to my phone. For an album I need to find it through a cabinet of tightly packed albums edge on, so you have to pull them out to find the one you want, remove it from its wrapper, carefully remove the acrylic dust cover from the deck, remove the puck, place the record on the platter, replace the puck, start it spinning, clean with the carbon brush, carefully line up the stylus and lower the arm. Then the reverse when it's finished.
So playing vinyl is an experience for me, where streaming is quick and easy to play an album or individual track.
Now, if my back and knees were still how they were a few years ago, my thinking would be completely different.
I am not knocking any format, each have their pluses and minuses, it's now about the ease of listening, ease of quick album or track selection, which ultimately leads to more listening enjoyment for me.

 

[Gray]

Many bought their first TT when there was no real alternative option.
(My mobile disco days meant multiple back- breaking boxes of vinyl being humped in and out of places....these days a thumbnail-sized SD card is all they need)
CD showed up, which I for one welcomed, but disc prices kept that as a luxury for several years....so turntables remained necessary.

I've got 3 turntables in the house (and one in need of repair)
But now for me it's stored music off hard drive, some online 'radio' stations and the odd CD.

If you were starting out today, would you buy a turntable? I'm guessing no.

 

[Al ears]

Many bought their first TT when there was no real alternative option.
(My mobile disco days meant multiple back- breaking boxes of vinyl being humped in and out of places....these days a thumbnail-sized SD card is all they need)
CD showed up, which I for one welcomed, but disc prices kept that as a luxury for several years....so turntables remained necessary.

I've got 3 turntables in the house (and one in need of repair)
But now for me it's stored music off hard drive, some online 'radio' stations and the odd CD.

If you were starting out today, would you buy a turntable? I'm guessing no.

I would agree, much that I cherish what I now have for vinyl replay, I would not be buying my first turntable in the current hifi / economic environment

 

[Rui]

I must admit it's something that has also been on my mind for a while.
Apart from regaining some floor space by being able to remove 1 equipment rack, 1 record storage cabinet and a CD rack, as I age, I have started to find it a real bind to keep getting up to change a CD or worse, every 15 mins or so for a record. The back and knees are not what they used to be and the simplicity of an almost endless selection of albums available at the touch of my phone screen via Tidal is slowly becoming the choice of listening.
My current thinking is if I sell off the record deck, phono amp and CD player I could invest in a high quality stand alone DAC and connect my Cambridge CXN V2 to it as the streamer.
Age is a *****!

mainly ,the reason why i get adicted to the streaming using spotify , it was easier ,when arriving home from work i just conected the computer and could listen to any song or search for others that i didn´t had the vinil or cd version normally only recorded in cassette wich sounded great but i only wanted to rest in my couch and listen to music it was my main source of music but some music wasn´t good in digital and again i started to buy new records , i didn´t bought records(vinil) since 93, but when listening to music by streaming i would notice that some frequencies were not that good as output sound . digital sound when converted from old records ,or as an example ,the "nevermind" from Nirvana the mid frequencies or the guitars sounded so bad to me that having old sub-pop versions of some new re-recorded songs, i thought the problem was the production style and had started to buy more cds ,had just bought a new improved cd player, having an old pioneer the pd-7300 ,also in my city no longer were sold LP records ,my surprise when listening to LP´s that i had in vinil this with na 1974 pioneer turntable , also using a ES series from sony component system with some huge cerwin-vegas i noticed that the records were much better sounding than their new cd version, some i never listened to them after, the guitars sound on cd was really bad compared to their vinil versions, only in 2014 i listened to a friends vinil version of Nevermind and it sounded like those old sub-pop records ,being the problem the source not the production of the record that was talked a lot at the time by bands like sonic youth that complained having not sold many records because they didn´t had a good producer ,having changed a lot their way of playing music , when produced by the same producer ,it was their most sold album, but "dirty" sounded good in cd ,not all cds were bad ,i have more than a thousand cds or much more(i never counted them). If i count the recorded ones they are more than a thousand, but i had already a good vinil collection that with my fathers records are around 5 thousand, this to say that i thought that i never would buy records again but again but i started to buy them, this the ones i noticed they sounded better in vinil normally rock music Lp´s, also noticed that some new records came with very low noise from being dirty ,also noticed that they get noise faster than my older Lp´s having them side by side there was no reason for a 84 Lp sounded perfect while the new record with 2 years had more noise caused by dust , humidity or both(almost non existing where i live)but not all are bad ,this was caused by me starting to hear music by streaming on spotify, also started to buy more cds (in second hand), also have two Iomega hard disk drive of 500Mb and 1 TB ,filled with digital music of several types . Space to me is not a problem , but by listening to music on a streaming service i started again to buy cds and records, just because i like to listen to good sound not average or bad.